Ohio executes man too fat to die

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**Frazzled**

enough seriousness (for us)
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEATH_PENALTY_OHIO?SITE=CODER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Ohio executes inmate who argued was too fat to die

LUCASVILLE, Ohio (AP) -- Ohio executed a 5-foot-7, 267-pound double murderer on Tuesday who argued his obesity made death by lethal injection inhumane.

Richard Cooey, 41, died at 10:28 a.m. at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville, said Jim Gravelle, a spokesman with state attorney general's office.

There were no immediate reports of difficulties finding suitable veins to deliver the deadly chemicals, a problem that has delayed previous executions in the state.

Cooey's attorneys had argued that his weight problem would make it difficult for prison staff to access a vein. A prisons spokeswoman said Cooey received a pre-execution exam early Tuesday and was cleared.

Cooey, who killed two University of Akron students in 1986, walked into the death chamber at 10:15 a.m. wearing gray pants and was strapped onto the gurney.

"You (expletive) haven't paid any attention to anything I've said in the last 22 1/2 years, why would anyone pay any attention to anything I've had to say now," Cooey said looking at the ceiling. He made no other comment.

Cooey tapped the fingers of his left hand several times before he died and his face took on a purple shade.

Six family members of one of his victims watched the execution. Summit County Prosecutor Sherri Bevan Walsh said the family was disappointed that Cooey was vulgar and hateful at the end.

He was the first inmate executed in Ohio in more than a year, and the state's first since the end of the unofficial moratorium on executions that began last year while the U.S. Supreme Court reviewed Kentucky's lethal injection procedure.

Cooey lost a final appeal earlier Tuesday when the U.S. Supreme Court turned down without comment his complaint that the state's protocol for lethal injection could cause an agonizing and painful death. He wanted the state to use a single drug rather than a three-drug combination, and asked for a stay of execution pending a hearing on that motion.

The court on Monday denied a separate appeal based on Cooey's claim that his obesity was a bar to humane lethal injection. The argument also had been rejected by a federal appeals court in Cincinnati and the Ohio Supreme Court, with both courts ruling that he missed a deadline for filing appeals.

Cooey is 75 pounds heavier than when he went to death row - the result of prison food and 23-hour-a-day confinement, his lawyers said.

They also argued that a migraine medicine prescribed by a prison physician could reduce the effect of the anesthetic used as part of the three-drug lethal injection.

They claimed that Ohio has a history of botched executions.

The last Ohio inmate to be executed was Christopher Newton - who was similar in size to Cooey - in May 2007. The execution team had trouble putting IVs in his arm, which delayed his execution nearly two hours. There were similar problems in the execution of another inmate in 2006.

Cooey made an earlier trip to the death house. But a U.S. District Court judge intervened hours before his scheduled execution in July 2003 when the Ohio Public Defender's office said it needed more time to assess the case after an appeals court dismissed his previous attorneys for inadequate representation.

Cooey and a co-defendant were convicted in the sexual assaults and slayings of University of Akron students Dawn McCreery, 20, and Wendy Offredo, 21, in September 1986. His co-defendant was 17 and was sentenced to life in prison because of his age.

The state has now executed 27 inmates since 1999, when Ohio renewed executions after more than three decades.

**lord_sutekh**

Obviously, he WASN'T too fat to die. Imagine that.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Christ, we'd never be rid of Oprah!

**reds8n**

walked into the death chamber at 10:15 a.m. wearing gray pants and was strapped onto the gurney.

Surely they mean waddled ?

I forgot for a moment that pants means trousers t'other side of the pond, and I had a frightening vision of a fat man in his undercrackers being strapped onto a very surprised looking Patrick Stewart.

Put me right off me yoghurt. Almost.

**Frazzled**

You are a sick puppy reds8n. I respect that

**Kilkrazy**

My cousin's family name is Gurney.

**JohnHwangDD**

OOhh... Dune, the *good* version!

**lord_sutekh**

I don't know that he'd be that surprised; after all, he does like them kind of big, doesn't he...

**warpcrafter**

JohnHwangDD wrote:OOhh... Dune, the *good* version!

You're implying their is a "good" version of Dune? One that a person might stay awake to the end without a near-fatal dose of amphetamines? If they'd killed him that way, even I would be crying cruel and unusual punishment!

**JohnHwangDD**

Hey, the David Lynch version is fun to watch. It just takes a while...

**Waaagh_Gonads**

How can a convicted murderer argue that the death penalty is inhumane?

A sharp axe to the back of the neck with great force/ guillotine would be my prefered instruement of choice for performing an execution on a fat man.

**Typeline**

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:How can a convicted murderer argue that the death penalty is inhumane?

A sharp axe to the back of the neck with great force/ guillotine would be my prefered instruement of choice for performing an execution on a fat man.

Yeah, I always ask myself why lethal injection is even legal. That stuff is way out there, very unusual. Why don't they just shoot him in the back of the head? Cheaper, easier, faster. Happens to a lot of people, very common, quick way to die, I'd wager even painless.

**Orlanth**

Credible sources have informed me that in many cases in the US the execution is deliberately botched to draw out suffering as a service to victims families. It is generally a bad idea for victims families to watch executions for this reason, amongst others. Execution is termination, not revenge. revenge does not have a formal place in western justice systems.

Electric chair jobs and lethal injection being methods that are very easy to draw out. In fact the electric chair is drawn out even in optimal circumstances death takes between 30 seconds and two minutes, it is unsure how long because the body continues to react when dead.

There are plenty of instant death causing chemicals that could be used for lethal injection, but for some reason they are not used.

The best means of execution is the gallows, it has the historical execution reference and looks ominous but is actually a humane way to kill. Again it can be drawn out (sic) but a standard drop gallows with the currect type of slip knot will kill instantly every time. Besides you don't need a rope anymore, a special collar can guarantee a clean kill without a traned fitter - yes fitting the executioners knot is a skill, it has to be positioned correctly against the neck.

As far as bullets in the back of the neck go. Its too personal a way to kill and will traumatise the executioner, even in deserving cases. Killing people is not natural. The gallows, lethal injection and electric chair are all indirect. The injection goes into a drip bag set up by someone else, the galows lever is not pulled by the person who set the noose and traditionally is not in the same room. Same with the button for the electric chair.
Now in some countries firing squads are used with presighted remote fired guns, even machine guns. This is of course very quick, but like all shootings is rather messy, which is the other down side to the firing squad, especially if the bosy is to be handed over to the condemneds relatives.

**Anti-Mag**

I don't agree with any executions to be honest. The who;e thing reeks of barbarism. War criminals are executed in the heat of the times, but it's a shame it still goes on. For such a powerful nation, the US has untapped potential to try and find another solution, IMO.

**lord_sutekh**

There are just some people who deserve to die for what they've done. The fact is, there ISN'T another solution that doesn't amount to "Oh, you brutally raped and murdered 3 children in front of their parents, then left the parents to burn in their house? Bad boy; your 'punishment' is 3 square meals a day and free room-and-board for the rest of your life".

If there was a different way, I'm sure it'd be more cost-effective than warehousing these monsters or having to go through all the rigamarole and cost of the inevitable struggle against execution. But there isn't, not one with a realistic and provable success rate.

**Frazzled**

Penal battalions sent to clear minefields in Cambodia?

**VermGho5t**

See, part of the problem is that a lot of us approach humanity from the perspective that life is precious. When in fact, in reality it is not. We are just animals that happen to be more intelligent than the next. Besides, other than large scale threats such as disease, warfare, and disaters, there are no natural pressures in which to keep human population in check.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I know I'm sounding shockingly right wing, but I honestly feel that with severe crimes, the perpetrator should no longer receive human rights.

I wonder, with all these Human Right bills, has anyone ever actually defined what quantifies a human being? Can't technically be Genetics, as those with superfluous nipples and digits (surprising how many) would not match to criteria. Ergo, tie it to behaviour.

**JohnHwangDD**

Yeah, we should be doing genetic testing for abhumans.

And rogue Psykers!

**Kilkrazy**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I know I'm sounding shockingly right wing, but I honestly feel that with severe crimes, the perpetrator should no longer receive human rights.

I wonder, with all these Human Right bills, has anyone ever actually defined what quantifies a human being? Can't technically be Genetics, as those with superfluous nipples and digits (surprising how many) would not match to criteria. Ergo, tie it to behaviour.

There is an amusing story by Philip K Dick in which the right to abortion is extended to cover children up to the age of about 12, which is when the average "human" is intellectually capable of understanding algebra. Prior to this level of attainment, the children are not classified as human so can be aborted at the mother's whim.

I mention this in order to point out that defining a human by their behaviour requires you to define what behaviour is human. Any definitions of that sort begin to run into difficulties once you look at specifics and extreme cases.

The fact is we all have an innate sense of what is a human being or not. In certain areas it has been more closely defined. For example, the legal age for abortion is fixed at 24 weeks in the UK. The definition of death is now legally defined as brain death, rather than lack of breathing response.

Sadly, part of human nature is the capability to do horrible things. There is even a scale of sociopathy and psychopathy, so where would you draw the line?

**Orlanth**

lord_sutekh wrote:There are just some people who deserve to die for what they've done. The fact is, there ISN'T another solution that doesn't amount to "Oh, you brutally raped and murdered 3 children in front of their parents, then left the parents to burn in their house? Bad boy; your 'punishment' is 3 square meals a day and free room-and-board for the rest of your life".

If there was a different way, I'm sure it'd be more cost-effective than warehousing these monsters or having to go through all the rigamarole and cost of the inevitable struggle against execution. But there isn't, not one with a realistic and provable success rate.

Trouble with this is:

1. Imprisonment is actually more of a deterent in some cases. This particularly applies to terrorism. An executed terrorist is a martyr, an imprisoned for life terrorist is a criminal. This is very effective against the IRA for a start, more so than shooting them, and the reason behind such things as Bobby Sands hunger strike, imprisonement is a humane punishment and sets a difference between convicted criminal and political detainee, hence his decision to starve himself to attemtpt to reestablish the link between the two.

2. You cannot unexecute someone who was wrongly convicted.

3. In some cases even the perpetrators of the worst crimes can change. In some cases this should not lead to review and release regardless, but it can lead to a lost life being saved. his comment can be taken as both a secular and religious one.
Though admittedly some criminals do feign penitance to try and get out of prison. Normally yiou can tell the difference.

4. Death Row is not a real tax saver, the extra rounds of appeals and to far higher bodies than usual including national figures raises costs. Attempts to fast track execution procedures normally fail and possibly lead to allusions of miscarriage of justice. Most executions occur at least ten years post conviction, already a lengthy time.

5. Death Row appeals are often influenced by political opinions as opposed to legal ones, especially when a politician wants to appear to 'get tough', or the opposite.

Somehow this reminds me of a story.

In revolutionary France the wives of those whose husbands served in the army wore a tricolor rosette on their bonnet. To do so and wear widows robes incicated that her husband was lost in the wars. Such women had a lot of respect and so oner such woman was able to get to the court of Napoleon Bonaparte. There the Emperor heard her petition during one of his sittings.
The woman asked Napoleon if he was "a man who knew mercy."
He replied that he was.
So the woman threw herself on the floor and begged for mercy for her son.
Napoleon asked what had occured.
The woman replied that her son was a deserter and was due to be shot.
Napoleon replied "If he is a deserter he does not deserve mercy."
The woman replied "if it was deserved it would not be mercy."

The request was granted.

**grizgrin**

Man, didn't this one suck enough the first time around? I think about the only thing we learned last time this topic came up was that the majority of posters had strong feelings about it, and none were willing to entertain the ideas of those juxtaposed to them. Go ahead, I want to see if something constructive can be made in Round 2.

**Envy89**

Now me I like how red chine dose executions.... shoot em, then bill the family for the bullet.

But then again, rope is reusable.

**weemonster**

i like how chinas prison system works in general.
It costs nothing to run and has been know to turn a small profit.
First thing they do it take your blood. and test it. if it is fit for use then you "donate blod" as long as you are there.
All prisoners work.
If you are in for life it means life so your organs go on the transplant list lung kidney etc.
If you're on deathrow they keep you alive until someone needs your heart or lungs.

**JohnHwangDD**

Envy89 wrote:Now me I like how red chine dose executions.... shoot em, then bill the family for the bullet.

But then again, rope is reusable.

Yeah, but rope wears and has to be replaced.

OTOH, a pool of water is inexhaustible. Just throw them in and let them drown.

**Typeline**

weemonster wrote:i like how chinas prison system works in general.
It costs nothing to run and has been know to turn a small profit.
First thing they do it take your blood. and test it. if it is fit for use then you "donate blod" as long as you are there.
All prisoners work.
If you are in for life it means life so your organs go on the transplant list lung kidney etc.
If you're on deathrow they keep you alive until someone needs your heart or lungs.

Seems a little crazy at first but I like this idea. Prisons turn into a profitable life support system instead of being gigantic pits that the government feels inclined to throw massive amounts of money into.

I like the idea of prisons also being work camps. They could be small factories and produce cheap cost effective goods to sell to lower class citizens. Takes care of two problems.

To be honest I don't see the death sentence as someone deserving to die for their crimes. It's more of a "we can't trust this person in free society anymore" so instead of keep them around forever for nothing we'll just wash our hands of him".

**Kilkrazy**

The UK is currently thinking of introducing compulsory work for unemployed people (something of a contradiction in terms, one might think) the idea being that they will be made to insulate lofts under the government's recent loft insulation handout scheme.

This is similar to the idea of forcing criminals to work, for instance sewing mailbags or pressing licence plates, purely in the sense that it re-employs people cheaply who would otherwise be a burden on the public purse due to their incapacity for one reason or another to find a proper job.

The downside of this idea is that government sponsored cheap labour may undermine the real labour market.

**Orlanth**

Typeline wrote:
weemonster wrote:i like how chinas prison system works in general.
It costs nothing to run and has been know to turn a small profit.
First thing they do it take your blood. and test it. if it is fit for use then you "donate blod" as long as you are there.
All prisoners work.
If you are in for life it means life so your organs go on the transplant list lung kidney etc.
If you're on deathrow they keep you alive until someone needs your heart or lungs.

Seems a little crazy at first but I like this idea. Prisons turn into a profitable life support system instead of being gigantic pits that the government feels inclined to throw massive amounts of money into.

I like the idea of prisons also being work camps. They could be small factories and produce cheap cost effective goods to sell to lower class citizens. Takes care of two problems.

To be honest I don't see the death sentence as someone deserving to die for their crimes. It's more of a "we can't trust this person in free society anymore" so instead of keep them around forever for nothing we'll just wash our hands of him".

Big big mistake.
Modern legal systems are built on the experiences society suffered under the older medival system of making a profit out of judicial and civic punishment. As history is being forgotten and ignorance creeps in the 'great idea' of making the prison system and judicial system pay for itself rears its ugly head.
It is way too small a step to make between trying to offset costs and justice being replaced by expediency.

If you have ever had a car ticketed by a civil parking monitoring firm, or for that matter one run by a local authority you will know what this means. It looked like a good idea not to pay traffic wardens out of tax payers money but instead to raise monies by fines. But instead what you get are numerous cases of people fined when they should not be.

Taking the horrors of Chinese 'justice' as a case in point. If someone was convicted, their medical records are on file. Later if they reoffend at the right timwe for someone important to need their particular body parts, might they not get nudged towards capital punishment. Might a healthy criminal with a rare blood group be farmed, might it effect his sentence, or even cause his sentence to be upgraded to the death penalty. If the person who needed the donated organs was impoertant enough might someone be wtrongly convicted let alone sentenced. Would you know if it happened?

Prison factories are not efficient working environments except in raw worker labour costs, you need a lot more guards, and safeguards too. It looks good on paper but why not give those same jobs to people on benefit who need the money. The savings to the taxpayer are the same, one person off benmefit and into employment. regardless of how you attempt iot prison will still cost the taxpayer. Onloy by closing prisons and opening gulags can you possibly make incarceration cheap enough for the labour to be truly profitable. Last time I checked gulags are still seen as a bad idea.

**Panic**

yeah,
we could do with some exectutions here in the UK... might set a turn in the downward spiral that Crime is taking here.
People seem to think they can do what the want and get away with it. those feth wits that tried to blow up the airport in scotland and club in London. They are actually claiming they are not guilty dispite the evidence against them... hoping to get a small number of years and go about their lives again a bit down the line... they should at least man up to it instead of being the worms that they are.

I'm not taking about executing someone who gets in a fight with dude in bar and ends up killing him, although that's no comfort to the dead mans family, the killer never set out to kill someone... i'm taking about premeditating Bad in the head murders... there is no way they should live. I can't think of one reason that they should be pardoned.

there must be a million ways to kill someone, and i say let the victims families decide. if it was a memeber of my family i could think of a few good ones.

But what if he's innocent?

yeah in a real who done it? case you shouldn't execute.

but, with real he done it! evidence or eyeball witnesses etc and With modern evidence CCTV etc the chances of getting it wrong are much less than they were even 30 years ago. kill him.

Kill em all that's what i say. they don't deserve to live

PaniC...

**Frazzled**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yeah, we should be doing genetic testing for abhumans.

And rogue Psykers!

I've been saying there are genestealer cults living among us for some time now. Does everyone really believe that their bosses are completely human?