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I was checking out some of the rumors for fantasy Mortals, and came here and the army list section, and its pretty dead.

Anyone see anything that really jumps out at them in the new list, whether a unit or combo?

What will be mandatory around the 2000 mark?

What will change from the White Dwarf list and this one, in terms of what most people take?

Or maybe it chance THAT little?

Take care!

Will tell you when the army book is out next month (as only the people who have the advance order spearhead have the army book).

I read it a week ago but nowhere near enough time to work out army lists or anything...

The Marks of Slaanesh and Nurgle are great. Really, really good.

Knights are now all the equivalent of the old Chosen Knights + a couple of more benefits, and cheaper. So you’re going to see knights.

Marauders (foot and mounted) are very good, especially with the addition of re-rolling Panic tests. Getting the option to take marks (particularly the fantastic-value Mark of Slaanesh) makes them even better.

The big guy units in Special (especially dragon ogres and armored, nurgle-marked Ogres) are high-value too.

Magic is pretty much mandatory. Some all-cavalry builds of Chaos may go light magic, but otherwise it’s a necessity. There are no ways in the army to get additional magic defense or dispel dice except for mages. There aren’t any magic items which give additional dice either. This is a big disappointment, as lots of previous books give such options. So that means your only way to defend against magic is to take mages. Since chaos characters are expensive, and since you have almost no other way to deal damage at range (Hellcannon and throwing axes), IMO you’re going to see a lot of wizards in chaos armies. I think the standard combo will probably be L4, L2, BSB, though another L2 may go in there, either in addition or in place of the BSB.

One of the things that really jumped out at me was the fact that Characters with one mark can join a unit with a different mark or no mark at all (I still have not found a rule that prohibits this). With this being said I can see someone taking Vilitch and 2 Scroll caddies combined with a BsB for added protection.

The Rapturous Standard is now one of the best possible items to take on a unit of knights if you want them to stick around as long as possible.

The Monster Horde can go one of two ways from what I have seen:

Either use Kholek and Throgg with as many Trolls and Dragon Ogres as you can fit in there or Just run Kholek with 2x4 Dragon Ogres 2 Shaggoths 2 caddies and as many units of Marauder Cav you can fit in there.

So all in all I think this book opens a lot of different doors and I really look forward to play testing most of this list.

Well, there are two fairly cheap items that grant MR 2 to a character (and thus the unit he join.) I know it's not very reliable, but you could roll MR 3 on the EotG table for Chosen, or roll it with a Warshrine or two.

And to be fair, it seems more appropiate that Chaos focuses on offense for magic than defense.

Zoned

Lord with mark of Nurgle, Rune Sword, and Armor of Damnation stands out to me. WS9 and your opponents are at -1 WS and they have to reroll successful hits is awesome. You become almost unkillable to anything WS5 or less.

I'll be going for the marauder horde myself. Cheap Cheap Cheap.

If you want a cheep hoard there are better ways to do it
orcs come to mind. they are a much better buy than marauders (with the possible exception of mark of slanesh marauders)

I think the real shiners are the warshrine and a bunch of 12 man slanesh units of warriors. Boost the one that will be important for a turn and let er rip.
Give them shields and greatweapons for some battlefield decisions and back them up with marauder cav/hounds for anti-rank goodness.

12 basic warriors within range of a banner or with any char in the unit will hold against most foes.

Hey guys.
I would like to add a few "best combos" Ive found in the codex.

Nurgle warriors with the banner of rage. Now you have the benefits of the mark of nurgle while being immune to psych while you are frenzied. (You can never loose frenzy)

The mark of slaanesh is good but you can take Khorne for 20 points more.. your units will be ITP until they loose combat.. (with marauders +flails having 11 str5 attacks is nothing to scough at)
By the way notice that Mark of Slaanesh isnt immune to psych. It is only immune to terror, panic, and fear. This matters because of all the spells that affect non-ITP troops.

I havent seen any mention of this yet and its one of the biggest things in the codex..
Under the how to use chaos magic section it mentions that chaos Sorcerers are a special kind of wizard.
These wizards can use magic armor and MAGIC SHIELDS (they cannot get mundane ones but yes, you can give them one of the 2 magic ones in the book)
Also.. the most powerful thing about chaos sorcs is that they can CHOOSE their spells from their appropriate lore. It says it plain as day all by itself in the explination of a sorcerer. The lores still have randomization charts just incase you have to randomize a spell.

Now.. having said that. The Daemon prince becomes a lvl 4 Wizard if you give him that option. It does not say he becomes a Sorcerer like the rest of the entries. I do not know if this was a mistake or was purposeful to limit the power of the daemon prince.

As far as powerful spells: Of course everyone can see the power of the lvl 6 Tz spell: 15+ Roll 2d6 str 2d6 hits against a unit if you rill str 11/12 the unit and characters in it are destroyed with no save
However, take another look at the lore of nurgle. Ive played a few games now and my two lvl 2 wizards are marked with nurgle. Right now I am taking the lvl 1 and 2 spell from the lore of nurgle. Lvl 1 is one of the most powerful spells in the game: 5+ 24" range - Target an enemy MODEL (yes characters, mages, unit champs etc).. if the spell is successful they take 1 wound no AS.
Lvl 2 is on a 7+ give a whole unit regen. Talk about the ability to get your troops across the table..

Also, to mention the warshrine. This will be going in every one of my armies. It has proven so worth while for its points. Lets get into the meta:
I run a unit of 20 warriors as the core block of my army. There is absolutely no point in making chosen. at +3 points per model for just an EotG table and +1ws it isnt worth it. Let me explain:
At 20 men to make chosen it would cost 60 more points than basic warriors. Not to mention the command is 10 points more. So all totaled you are using 70 points to upgrade yuor unit of warriors to chosen (remember only giving them +1ws and an EotG roll). Now if you take that 70 points and reinvest into a warshrine you get your EotG roll and a warshrine for only 60 points. So all yuo are missing out on is the +1ws which is not huge (if they were ws7 then that would have to take some debate). Also, do not forget that if yuor chosen champ wins a challenge he does NOT get to roll on the EotG table. It specificly says in the EotG rule that while all chaos models that can challenge must; only characters actually benefit from the EotG rule. Another benefit of the warshrine is that if you give a unit stupidity they will only keep it for 1 turn. The rules for the shrine state that if yuo use it on the same unit twice the previous EotG effects are negated and the new result stands. (I would hate to have a stupid block of chosen and just have to deal with it all game).

One last combo: BSB with the Terror totem (all enemy models the BSB has LoS to get -1LD) + Hell cannon. Its shots cause panic at a -1. Giving a total of -2 when you synergize them.

I hope this has helped all my Chaotic Friends

Several books use the word “choose” when talking about wizards getting their spells. You still roll randomly.

The hero called a “Chaos Sorcerer” does not have the option to take a mundane shield. Per the main rulebook, you need to have the option to take a mundane shield in order to take a magic one. The section you’re referring to is a generic statement about chaos sorcerers using magic armor and shields, but remember that any model that casts spells in a wizard (per the main book), and any chaos wizard is a sorcerer (per WoC), so the generic statement about armor and shields is also referring to special characters, heroes given the Book of Secrets, etc. It doesn’t look to me that a “Chaos Sorcerer” really has the option for an Enchanted Shield.

My mistake about the choose your spells thing. I read it as written.
I thought codex rules superceed those of the main rulebook for special instances.
I dont know why they would say they have the ability to carry Magic shields if they in fact do not.

Well, that’s the thing. Page 106 doesn’t come out and say ALL chaos sorcerers can use them. It says:

Warriors of Chaos wrote:The term 'Sorcerer' is used to describe Wizards who follow the Chaos Gods. Sorcerers are unusual in that they wear Chaos armour and use magic shields or magic armour just like other Champions of Chaos.

“Sorcerer” can mean the hero called a “Chaos Sorcerer”, and it can mean any chaos model who casts spells. That sentence is talking about the general use of chaos magic by chaos models; it’s not a section focused on character equipment, and it doesn’t specify WHICH kind of chaos sorcerer they’re talking about. In fact the sentence immediately preceding it is the one telling you that any chaos model who casts spells is a sorcerer.

In contrast to the Vampire Counts book, which actually has a section titled “Magic Armour” which explicitly says that “all” Vampires can take magic armor and shields.

For me as a chaos player, the fact that the WoC book does not come out and explicitly say “all sorcerers” and the fact that this is kind of buried in the middle of the section on casting, makes me kind of uncomfortable about taking a shield on a character who doesn’t explicitly have the option in his equipment section. When in doubt, I try to ascribe to the interpretation which is less likely to be a loophole, and which is less powerful (to make sure I don’t accidentally cheat my opponent).

Called the GW boys. They did say you have to randomize spells. However, you can choose a magic shield as it stated in that section of the codex was the ruling I recieved.

call them again....see if you get the same answer.

It was my 1st time calling.. do they vary heavily on their answers?

i cant see why youd fight so hard to be able to give a sorcerer an enchanted shield when you could just buy a horse for 1 more point

sorry canaan, they do.
that number is for when you are in a pinch and want a 3rd party answer. honestly you may as well role a die to settle it because ask two phone service guys and chances are youll get two different answers.

not to stray too far off topic....

i really like the shrines. they will make their way into all of my lists.

I never give the mages in my list an enchanted shield. I was just reading the codex and it says plain as day that you can.
A T 4 mage with a 2+ AS and -1 to hit is good enough for me..
I guess we will see a FAQ or Erratta sooner than later on this.
In any case what do you guys think about the Frenzied Mark of Nurgle warriors or the Warshrine/chosen meta?

I like both of those concepts.

As noted, the phone customer service guys are extremely variable in their opinions.

Enchanted Shield is an awesome option for an Exalted Sorcerer on steed with Daemon Sword. It gives him a substantially better chance of not killing himself. I just don't think it's legal.

A brief read-through of the new armybook and a couple of testgames point me towards heavy magic and/or fast hitters starring units of chaos knights if one's looking for the more powerful stuff. Tzeentch mages in particular can make very effective magic bunker withe the skull of katam and their natural +1 to cast rolls. The lord-mage needs to roll the infernal gateway, though, to enable the chaos magic phase fully. Also infernal puppet helps a bit vs miscasts (and makes enemies miscasts even more dangerous). The more mobile army will likely include loads of marauder horsemen in addition to the aforementioned knights. Khorne horsemen with flails seem to be very hitty for their points cost (140ish pts for 7 ponyguys with flails, thats 14 ws4 s5 attacks and 14 ws3 s3 attacks on the charge!). I'm still puzzled a bit by the exact character setup of the fast armies in particular. Dragon or not & how much magic(defense) etc. Most likely the disc heroes will show up often as they are the only cheap(ish) flyers available to the list.

The 2nd Slaanesh spell, Hellshriek, is pretty awesome. Especially if combined with the Terror banner. Panic test at -1 for every enemy unit in 18"? Awesome!

I totaly concur with the magic heaviness.
The way the army is set up: If you dont take a magic heavy list your core force is likey to be outflanked and out manuvered by turn 3 (unless you are running cav as core).
The way I am doing it right now is 2 nurgle wizards 1 with the skull staff and the other with the power familiar and book of secrets right next to each other in the aformentioned ITP block of 3+ warriors. A lvl 4 Tzeench Daemon prince with the ability to re-roll 1 dice per turn and the ability to add +d3 to 1 cast per turn (hello infernal gateway). If for a turn you stand your daemon next to your skull staff guy he gets +3 to +5 on his gateway cast!. I also am running a BSB right now but I am debating on going with a 3rd nurgle mage to add another lvl 1 nurgle spell to the list. BTW Ive noticed that people will usualy let the spell go off 1 time per character (taking a wound 90% of the time and giving you 1/2 points for heroes).. then they start throwing the kitchen sink at it with scrolls and dispel dice to save their mages etc.. letting you open up with whatever lvl 4 you have.

Havent seen anyone mention it, but I think Archaon is a steal.

Based on rumors, a casty Tizz Sorc Lord on Dragon seems pretty powerful with the potential for a 3+ inv against shooting, and 5 ranged weapons (a Chaos gift, a Bound Spell, Dragon Breath 2x, and the Sorc's spells). Is this possible in the army book?

As far as I remember , the golden eye of Tz only works for the charater, not his stead. So the casty Tizz lord on a dragon won't be as invunerable as it used to be.

Ah, that's a shame. Oh well, put him on a disc and he can still dish out a lot of the same pain.

Yeah its only for the character :(

Problem with the disc is its fairly easy to shoot out from under him. Then you have a walking wizard- not so hot.

Nurgle is very, very good this go round. Slaanesh and Khorne are also very solid. (I laugh at people who say frenzy is such a huge liability when you have cheap hounds and fast cav as core.) I don't see much point to infantry, though. Sticking with cav and monsters guarantees speedy hard hitters that can actually make it into combat. M4 blocks will have a serious problem there, just like they always do. M5 would have been a great add to Chosen to make them sort of worth buying. I anticipate running marauder cav as core, knights, maybe Chaos ogres (M6 2+AS 3 S4 or 4+/3 S6 and marks is pretty sexy), and mounted characters.

Disc has 1 wound last I checked, that makes it a flying cavalry piece rather than a monster. Which means it gives the sorcerer +1 armor save and is impossible to shoot out from under him.

Ah, you are 100% correct. I was thinking of the old monster disc.