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Vulkan He´stan 190
Librarian +terminator armor+ storm shield+ gate of infinity+ the avenger 140

10 Tact marines with multimelta+ flamer +powerfist +drop pod 230
10 Tact Marines with Flammer + Multimelta+ Drop pod 205

Ironclad dreadnought+ meltagun+ heavy flamer hunter killer missile+
drop pod+ deathwind missile launcher 210
Ironclad dreadnought+ meltagun+ heavy flamer hunter killer missile+
drop pod+ deathwind missile launcher 210
5 Assault terminators hammer and shield 200

6 devastators + 4 plasma cannon 206
6 devastators + 4 plasma cannon 206
6 devastators + 4 plasma cannon 206

I dont like using my vindicators or predators lattely, devastators dont gets shaken in the first turns, and they got nice cover saves normally as well as 2 extra lives each squad

Assault termies with hammer is a must with vulkan, they reroll to hit and wound. Librarian will lead them with gates to the combat I will rarelly deep strike them, I want them charging in 2nd turn.

Ironclad dreadies goes first turn with pods, pod will strikes crowed low armor enemies with deathwind while dreadies will go first turn agains tanks with multimelta and hunter missile, next turn they will charge I suposse.

The tactical marines will go with Vulkan and they will come from second turn to counterstrike or to split in 2 squads, 1 with the meltas and the other with vulkan and the power fist.ç
The other tactical is mainly for objetives in my own battlefield area, but I pod them so they survive, with a little luck they will come on turn 3 adn there will be almost nothing left from enemy alive

Would love to receive critics on this please.

You lose. 2 troops choices? Small dev squads just asking for wounds to take out the special models?

Best you'll do is tie in objective missions, and you've got a lot of very easily accrued kill points.

Back to the drawing board, bring more tactical squads.

I'd have to agree. Maybe drop the termies for another troops choice in a pod. Drop the Libby's termie armor and he can go with that troop choice.

Can't he go anyway? Drop pods carry 12 models, why would they do that if they couldn't hold a terminator character? In case you wanted to add two power-armoured characters to the same unit?

drop a Dev squad.
drop all 8 plasma cannons, just waiting to kill thier users.
give 4 heavy bolters and 4 lascannons.
that way you have one for tanks and one for toops.

and the points saved should allow you more tac marines.

even then it will struggle due to lack of troops.

You've got what, 44 marines and 2 walkers in a 2k list? Any decent shooting army will bury you with dice.

"You lose. 2 troops choices? Small dev squads just asking for wounds to take out the special models?

Best you'll do is tie in objective missions, and you've got a lot of very easily accrued kill points.

Back to the drawing board, bring more tactical squads."

Yes, my main problem with this list is that I would love to have an extra scoring squad, even something as simple as another scout unnit could make it, perhaps ill try to lower some points in some place just to achieve that.
I like Devastators squads at 6 models, been playing 7 chaos marines devastators in a lash army for long now and my experience tell me people forget about them and center attention in the things in his deployment area, I expect ironclad dreadnoughts, pods and the melee units to draw most of the shots from enemy armyes.
I hope that with the firepower this army got objetives missions will be easy to acomplish, will have to be very carefull with anihilation missions as I got too many scoring transports. Anyway most tournaments here in andalucia goes with special rules for transports in points misions.

"I'd have to agree. Maybe drop the termies for another troops choice in a pod. Drop the Libby's termie armor and he can go with that troop choice."

Yea, Termies unnit is the 1 Im more doubious to bring, it will start scoring from 2nd turn at his best and will be eating fire from turn 1.
But in other hand all shots fired to this unnit will be out from devs.... and we all know they are hard to take down. Think all my army will be out from table if my opponent starts but the devs and the termies.

"drop a Dev squad.
drop all 8 plasma cannons, just waiting to kill thier users.
give 4 heavy bolters and 4 lascannons.
that way you have one for tanks and one for toops.

and the points saved should allow you more tac marines.

even then it will struggle due to lack of troops."

I love Plasma cannons with the 5th ed. blast rules, at least in AP4 shooters, also in 2.000 points battles things are normally more crowed and thats even better. About overheating I dont really care, marines got a nice 3+ saving agains that, only problem I could have would be in an anihilation mission turn 4 with a squad with 1 or 2 last survivors, in this case this guys would be running into a forest, not shoting .

"You've got what, 44 marines and 2 walkers in a 2k list? Any decent shooting army will bury you with dice."

Any good shoting army will be receiving as well 12 plasma cannon, 2 multimeltas, 2 krak misile, 2 deathwind misile launcher in turn 1, and the charge of 2 ironclads dreadnoughts, 5assault termies+librarian and a lot more shoting in turn 2.
but still you are right, I must manage to free 150 points to place 2 little scouts unnits there in.

The problem is you're also counting on S7 guns that scatter to take down enemy armour. I mean if I have a single landraider you're praying 2 meltaguns do the job and if they don't, you're DEAD because I'll drive up to those devastators with whatever I want and ice them.

Plus with the abundance of cover in 5th edition the plasma cannons are really just waiting for the opportunity to get a good shot.

If this works in your area, congrats. You'll win games against people that an army like this works well against. I feel for you, though, when you encounter something really deadly.

Spellbound wrote:The problem is you're also counting on S7 guns that scatter to take down enemy armour. I mean if I have a single landraider you're praying 2 meltaguns do the job and if they don't, you're DEAD because I'll drive up to those devastators with whatever I want and ice them.

Plus with the abundance of cover in 5th edition the plasma cannons are really just waiting for the opportunity to get a good shot.

If this works in your area, congrats. You'll win games against people that an army like this works well against. I feel for you, though, when you encounter something really deadly.

Actually, he has 4 meltaguns, and two Ironclads that can rip apart a LR in CC. Also the Thunderhammers can pound the LR, since the Viel allows him to hoose where he want to go.

I also fnid that Plasma Cannons are awesome in 5th. even with 4+ cover saves, Plasma cannons do SIGNIFICANT amounts of damage, even if one or three blowup during the course of the game.

Also, he has Four scoring units, as he can combat squad his two tac squads as they come out of the pods.

So, first turn, his dev squads thin out anything really scary other than Vehicles, and the Ironclads pod in, and his termis squad veils in on the teleport homers.

any decent shooty army is going to be terrified at this point, with 2 TL melta guns, 2 TL heavy flamers 12 plasma cannons and 7 2+(3+) armor save close combat monsters are in his face ready to pound, probably no more that 6" away from his precious, yet easily killed in cc, shooty units.

I don't think it's nearly as bad as you are saying, but obviously you throw in with the group who say "if it's not horde, it's not worth playing".

Thanks for the critics and suport, so far asking several friends and in some other boards Ive come to a overal idea of how to improve the list, gimme an hour to make it and ill post it.

with 12 plasma cannons, you have 1 blowing up for every 18 shots. I'd go with it, They're still really good, and even more so now that they're cheaper point wise.

Anything that forces enemies into cover when you have Dreads droping on their heads is nice

Oki after some playtesting and reading all the good advices i´ve come to this list:

HQ:
Vulkan He´stan 190 ( will deploy first turn with a tactical pod )
Librarian +terminator armor+ storm shield+ gate of infinity+ the avenger 140
(Will be jumping 24 ** from turn 1 with gate of infinity)

Troops:
10 tact marines with multimelta+ meltagun + powerfist +Drop Pod + Deathwind Missile launcher 255 (This 1 goes first turn with Vulkan on it)
10 tact marines with Multimelta+ Meltagun +Drop Pod + Powerfist + 235
5 Scouts + Camocloacks + with Missile Launcher 100
5 Scouts + Camocloacks + with Missile Launcher 100
(Nice invulnerable 3+)

Elites:
Ironclad dreadnought+ meltagun+ heavy flamer + 2x hunter killer missile+
drop pod+ deathwind missile launcher 220
5 Assault terminators 4 with Thunderhammer and Stormshield + 1 with Lightning Claws 200
(Those start in table and use Librarians Gate to reach the enemy, I hate risking a 350 unit to come in turn 3 or 4 due to bad deep strike luck)

Heavy Support:
6 devastators + 4 Plasma cannon 206
6 devastators + 4 Plasma cannon 206
6 devastators + 4 Missile Launcher 150
(There is your TK unnit )
So now we got 4 Plasmas less but 6 Missile Launchers more, I´ve deleted An Ironclad Dreadnought to get the points and this also allow me to get Vulkan crew Pod first turn, so actually This will be better as they go with 2 meltas and a power fist.
6 Scoring Unnits is MORE than enought to win a point battle now.
Overall the list seems way more Strong now.

I'd like to disagree with whoever told you that 2 squads were not enough troops. You can combat squad-so that can actually be 4 objectives held by troops. What more do they want? Then, revert to 2 troop squads for kill point missions. I'd go back to 1 troop squad and two scout squads to max out on heavy support fire.

Plasma Cannons? against a properly deployed enemy they can hit 1 figure per shot maximum. Don't be surprised if they don't do anything but make the opponent spread out. Yes, they are nice against Terminators, and deep strikers.

The infantry unit in the drop pod seems weak to me. Wouldn't you rather have a second threat unit in your second drop pod, like Sternguard?

Still quite nasty.

Oh, almost forgot to add, I don't have the DH codex at work with me, but I would add Mystics, or whatever is required as an ally to get the free shot at deep striking units. Especially with so many delightful plasma cannons.

There, that's a GOOD suggestion for a competitive army.

Mike

I would agree with the above statement. For any serious tournament list, the need for anti-deepstrike protection and cheap anti-psyker protection almost necessitates a DH inquisitor with mystics. The potential effect of a 90 point guy is off the scale for unit efficiency.

How many DH may I put into a marine list to have a legal tournament list?
In case its legal to play that on tourneys I see very interesting the inquisitors with plasma warriors and mistics.
Also using dh terminators seem like cheaper and best options.

Spellbound wrote:Can't he go anyway? Drop pods carry 12 models, why would they do that if they couldn't hold a terminator character? In case you wanted to add two power-armoured characters to the same unit?

He can. I was suggesting drop the armor to make the points. I don't know them exactly though.

Oki, last review to the List, out when the scouts, and I managed place for an inquisitor with the mistics/stormtrooper crew to deal agains Deep strikes and demons.
Also I added another Troop squadron for fluff and low cost instead of the other scouts.

HQ:
Vulkan He´stan 190
Librarian+Terminator Armor+Stormshield+Gate of Infinity+Null Zone 140

Troops:
10 Tact marines+Multimelta+Meltagun+Powerfist+Drop Pod
+Deathwind Missile launcher 255
10 Tact marines+Multimelta+Meltagun+Drop Pod 210
5 Inquisitorial Storm Troops+Veteran+Auspex+2 Plasmagun+Psichic Cannon 112

Elites:
Ironclad Dreadnought+Meltagun+Heavy flamer+1xHunter killer missile
+Drop pod+Deathwind missile launcher 220
5 Assault Terminators+4 with Thunderhammer/Stormshield+1 Lightning Claws 200
Inquisitor+Psichic Cannon+Auspex+2 Mistics+2 I.G. Veteran+2 Plasmagun 104

Heavy Support:
6 devastators + 4 Plasma cannon 206
6 devastators + 4 Plasma cannon 206
6 devastators + 4 Missile Launcher 150
Say what you think guys.