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HQ:
Shash'O with Plasma rifle and Missile pod/ fusion blaster, shield generator, stimulant injector, hardwired drone controller, hardwired multi tracker, and Bonding knife

XV8 suit Plasma rifle, missile pod/ fusion blaster, targeting array, hard wired multi tracker, and hard wired drone controller

XV8 suit Plasma rifle, missile pod/ fusion blaster, targeting array, and hard wired multi tracker

1x gun drones and 1x shield drones
336 points

Elite:
3x XV8 suits
Two with Plasma rifle, missile pod/ fusion blaster, and multi tracker

One upgraded to team leader Plasma rifle, missile pod, targeting array, hard wired multi tracker, and bonding knife

1x Gun drone 1x Shield drone

236 points

Troops:
10 Man Fire Warrior squad Shas'ui and Marker Light 120 points

10 Man Fire Warrior squad Shas'ui and Marker Light 120 points

10 Man Fire Warrior squad Shas'ui and Marker Light 120 points

10 Man Fire Warrior squad Shas'ui and Marker Light 120 Points

Heavy support:
3x Broadsides 2 with multi tracker one upgraded to team leader with drone controller 2x shield drones, bonding knife, and hard wired multi tracker 260 points

3x Broadsides 2 with multi tracker one upgraded to team leader with drone controller 2x shield drones, bonding knife, and hard wired multi tracker 260 points

Hammer head with 2 burst cannons, disruption pods, and multi tracker
165 Points

Total: 1747

(EDIT: the models listed with Missile pod/ fusion blaster indicate I am not sure which I will be choosing they both cost 12 points and have different utilities, I will be experimenting with them both ways and in different combinations)

This is an adjustment from my current build I was havign a little trouble with horde armies, I dropped the 4 devil fish I was running since they did not give much in the way of fire power and they were an easy kill point for my opponents. So to cut down on my previous 12 Kill points my army gave I am now down to 9 with more possible massed fire power with the addition of the XV8 suits.

I went with the pulse rifle because a majority of the people I play against play MEQ armies and I am sick of trying to dice terminators.

(LIST HAS BEEN EDITED 10/29/08 1:09 PM)

your broad sides are illegal. only the team leader can get more than one upgrade as a hardwired option.

Why drop the fish? they are awesome! get some flechette dischargers and watch the orks die run them as warfish and when they get close move over 6 inches a turn so the klaw needs 6s to hit you and you hit them with the discharge

You also have too much gear on your elite suits

Edit:

I think you have to much on all your suits...

frgsinwntr wrote:your broad sides are illegal. only the team leader can get more than one upgrade as a hardwired option.

Why drop the fish? they are awesome! get some flechette dischargers and watch the orks die run them as warfish and when they get close move over 6 inches a turn so the klaw needs 6s to hit you and you hit them with the discharge

You also have too much gear on your elite suits

Edit:

I think you have to much on all your suits...

I should hope not I have been running them this way for months against other Tau players and no one has said anything -__-.

I do not have my codex in front of me so I will double check when I get back home, but yes if you are talking about one of the war gear lists only the team leader can get stuff from it, but the second list any suits can buy upgrades from or at least I have yet to read in the codex where it says they cannot.

But I will edit my list after checking my codex if in fact I am in error.

I dropped the fish because almost every MEQ army is running alot of melta/multi meltas now and those eat devil fish and I hate giving up KP if I don't have to, also they never really felt to me that they were worth the points. The mobility with them is amazing I can't complain there but they just don't have as much utility as I had envisioned.

My main concern for this army is will the XV8's have enough shots to be decent against horde while still being able to cut down terminators with extreme prejudice?

yes they can buy the upgrades but they only have 3 hardslots to fit gear in.

a gun takes 1
a TL gun takes 2

your BSides only have 1 slot to pick gear for unless they are a team leader :(

sorry to pop the bubble...

So are you arguing the model cannot fit these upgrades or that the codex says I can't because that is a very important distinction?

Also there are 2 built in spots on the shoulders of all Crisis suits and I modeled my broad sides with the rail guns on the arms and not the shoulders similar to the FW ones so that acualy gives me 4 hard slots permodel, and if i wanted to I can effortlessly modify them to hold more, WYSIWYG is easy to work out.

If the codex says no then no issue I can alter my list.

the codex limits you to a certain ammount of hardslots.
you cant legally throw a weapon or gear into every slot you see on a model.

JD21290 wrote:the codex limits you to a certain ammount of hardslots.
you cant legally throw a weapon or gear into every slot you see on a model.

Ok cool I will check as soon as I get home I do not remeber seeing it say I can only take 1 or 2 but I have missed things before.

Also be patient I am hanging out in the campus computer lab until class and I won't be able to even look at my codex until 10pm MST.

the last tau dex was the same, it limited your weapon and gear, otherwise people would simply load up a suit with as much as they could cram on it.

I assume you plan to play this as a 'stand and shoot' kinda army? In which case, I'm curious about your logic behind the hammerhead. You already have 6 railguns, did you bring the HH for it's mobility? I would suggest using the points elsewhere. As your only tank, that hammerhead has a big red target on the side of it, and will see alot of fire in the first few rounds. Just my two cents, if I find myself bringing only 1 or two of any type of unit, it never lasts long. It would be like mounting your entire army in devilfish or crisis suits, then leaving 6 fire warriors out on foot. Something tells me all the bullets that can't hurt your tanks are gonna make those poor guys melt

frgsinwntr is right about the broadsides, 1 support system each, though team leaders get wargear as well. Though frankly I wouldn't bother with target locks or multitrackers on them anyway. target locks can go because you don't want to split your fire too much, and waste it. I'd rather dump all 3 rails into 1 tank, and watch it go up in smoke 99% of the time than try to snag 3 tanks in one try, and fail. Multitracker can go because the SMS and railguns have absolutely no synergy (they fire at completely different types of targets). I've seen multitracker/plasma rifle broadsides do ok, you can use them to hunt termies and MCs once the tanks are gone, but it's not worth the 15 points each IMO. Either go with +1BS which gives them each an 88% chance to hit, or give them the advanced stabilization system (my personal favorite), so that your broadsides are always putting shots on the tanks you want, instead of your opponent using LOS and cover to deny you kills. After a few games, if you find yourself losing broadsides to enemy anti-tank (they're gonna see ALOT of lascannon fire, I assure you.), give them some shield drones. They work wonders as sacrificial wounds.

To me, marker drones are waaaaay too pricey, I've yet to find any unit in my army I can bring myself to put them in, least of all fire warriors, sadly. If anything, put them with crisis/stealth suits, so at least they're relentless. For the 90 points you spent on 3 marker drones, you could just buy a full 8 pathfinders for 96. They're not hidden amongst your infantry, but you have almost triple the markerlights. At the very least, do this. Take out the 3 drones (-90 points). add 1 fire warrior to each squad (-60 points), give each shas'ui a markerlight (-30 points). Exact same units, 30 points cheaper.

Your crisis suits feel a bit bloated to me too, 319 points for 3 suits is mighty hard for me to swallow, even with a BS5 commander. I'm intrigued by plasma/burst, it's not something I've toyed with. I'm still hooked on the 3 long-range high-strength shots (plasma+missiles), for taking out things I can't afford to commit railguns to just yet, like almost all ork vehicles, MCs, and so on. TL plasma seems too expensive with BS4 (that's +20 per model!), so I'd go one or the other (I'd take BS over TL, so the bursts get the bump too).

I am surprised your not taking any shield drones, i always had a few hanging around to stop missiles from killing off my commander, and have you tried out fitting the crisis suits with a plasma missile. one less shot than the burst cannon but a lot stronger....just a thought...

Broadsides must take 1 'hardpoint' (and only 1) and XV8's must take 3 (and only 3)

Team leaders can also take as much 'wargear' as you're willing to pay for. Do not mix up hardpoint items and wargear items. They are not the same. Hardpoints are the first two columns in the battlesuit ugrade list. Wargear is the one on the right.

Upgrading to a Shas'Vre team leader allows that (and only that) model to take special issue items subject to the above upgrade limitations.

None of this has anything at all to do with modeling, and everything to do with what the codex says are legal upgrades for battlesuits. I played wrong for (quite) awhile too, but the restrictions here are very important to fielding a legal army, subtle as they may seem.

You're paying a hell of a lot of points for marker drones. Why not just buy some pathfinders and give the 'fish to the fire warrior squads? I use 2 full squads in 1850. I can't believe you're paying 120 points for those markerlight drones!

BTW, the 80+ points for a devilfish isn't for the firepower, it's for the protection and mobility it adds to your squads. Tau vehicles are really hard to kill and have a lot of freedom of movement.

IMO, you're spending A LOT of points on your command squad for no good reason. You don't even have a single shield drone to protect your investment! I tend to like to specialize my weapons loadouts (like plasma/fusion for MEQ/TEQ hunting). You're paying a lot of extra points for those bodyguards and not making particularly good use of them. Btw, this is the one squad that you get that can have every model using wargear if you want. Most experienced players tend to use a Shas'El with a targeting array (+1 BS) instead of Shas'O unless you're planning on getting into close combat, which hopefully you're not.

Shield drones are almost a must have for broadsides and can be helpful on expensive HQ squads. And no bonding knives on your broadsides? I'm cringing. Either drop the squads to two models apiece or spend the measly 5 points to bond them.

You have some interesting units, but you're going to need to retool your units to make them legal and get a few of the no-brainer options slapped on there before hitting the dirt.

Rmeju

You're hammerheads seems out of place as your only vehicle... it's going to take a lot of fire. Good thing you kept it fairly cheap, but I don't think those pods are going to protect it for too long.

Whoa! Defenestrator, you and I are on the same wavelength!

Eerie

Rmeju

what can I say, there's certainly a commonality of themes for Tau armies. Which isn't to say alternatives are out of the question. I once ran a 3 man Crisis team with TL flamers, and missile pods (a whopping 129 points total) against an ork army, the easily earned me 400 points that game. pop a trukk from 30" with the missiles, next turn when they run at me, unload with 3 TL flamers and kill 20+ orks. Rinse+repeat, it got stupid. I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying anything can work in the proper situation

Ok wow lots of comments I will do my best to respond to each one.

As far as shield drones go as long as I play correctly my squads will always have a 4-5+ cover save (yes PK/PF are strength 8+ but if I get them in to HTH then I screwed up) so there is no good reason to spend the 15 points a peice for the shield drones.

As far as the hard mount points I dug through the codex and I see the spots you are citing though it isn't as deffinative as I had hoped for it says I must take three/one but it does not say I am limited to only three/one. But for the sake of argument thats an easy thing to remedy.

In response to the large amount of concern over the gear on my suits all of it was selected from the support systems list, and I still do not see where it says I am limited to this amount only that I must take a certain amount but I can see how it can be viewed either way.

As for pathfinders I was going to take them because the amount of Marker lights they get is a bargain I agree the problem is I cannot split up thier ML's between targets/ without paying for an aditional 25 points in war gear no thanks and since they MUST select a devilfish transport they give up 2 easy kill points.

As for the Hammer head the template it can fire has been indispensible for me in games and so far no one even pays attention to it they rush straight for my broad sides and my FW's shred them.

The reason I took the Shas'o is that he has an additional wound and for 25+ plus he gets an additional ws why not?

Why would I want a bonding knife on my broads sides? I have yet to have them run unless they are in CC and in that case I want them to break, because I want that unit that assaulted them out of combat so I can shoot at them again.

I know devilfish aren't for the fire power I never took them for that like i said above I took them for mobility but they ended up costing me a number of battles from Kill points, you are right they are hard to kill out side of 12 inches but tell me how hard is it for someone to get a multi melta within 12 inches of your vehicle answer not hard and since they are within 12 disp pods don't work.

Also burst cannons are cheaper and still wound on 2+ against ork's and other horde type armies so it is worth it IMHO.

I think that responds to everything and I will update the list shortly to apply the salvo of changes lol.

Okay. Let's take this apart.

"Shash'O with 2 XV8 suits all with Twinlinked plasma rifles and burst cannon, targetlock, multi targeter, and +1 balistic skill 319 points"

Okay. You don't need a twin-linked Plasma Rifle on the Shas'O. With the new Balistic skill rules, you're better off giving the Shas'O a Targetting Array for the BS6 with the Plasma and the Burst cannon, but even that isn't really necessary. You'll hit with the plasma almost all of the time at BS5, twin-linking a high-bs model isn't really needed.

You should try to remember that with crisis suits, sure you can deck them out into 100point super-infantry, but it's a super-infantry that will still die if a krak missile hit's it in the face(and with the new marine rules, paired with the fact that most cover won't completly protect you anymore, the chances of getting knocked on your ass by a str8 attack with a 4+ cover save as your only solace will be a more and more common sight for Tau players.). Usually if you're putting more then 70 points in a battlesuit, you're pushing it a bit. It's a lot of points to put into a rather frail unit, and sadly the commander is no better. Anything that'll one-hit a battlesuit, will kill your commander just as easily.

Now the twin-linked plasma on the bodyguards are your call, really. It's a bit too expensive for my taste, but being able to guarentee those shots are handy. Personally, I'd recommend markerlights for the added BS instead of paying got a targetting array -and- twin-linking. Tau are lousy shots, but don't spend 20 points just to make them a bit better, it's really not worth it and will only make a difference rarely.

To give you an idea of the difference it makes, on the points you spent on one crisis team and your HQ, I have a much tougher HQ, and two full crisis teams. Except my crisis suits have a weapon for everything, which brings me to my next point;

What are they there for?

"Elite
3x XV8 suits all with Twinlinked plasma rifles and burst cannon, multi targeter and target lock as well as +1 balistic skill 219 points "

Never field crisis suits just because they're cool. As a beginner, that'll work, and even throwaway crisis suits have their values, but in a Tau army, especially one where you don't necessarily have things to deal with every kind of threat, a crisis team can fill the gap anywhere, in any possible role.

You have -alot- of anti light-infantry in your firewarrior base, and a lot of raw anti-armor in your railguns. While it's an overused setup, here is one of the places where the Fireknife is an ideal crisis suit, because it covers the range of light-armor and heavy infantry quite comfortably, and that is what your army otherwise lacks.

Now for starters, I know it's been mentioned, but I want to mention it again; Only the squad leader in battlesuit teams can select from the armory. A normal crisis suit can select its weapons from the Battlesuit Weapon Systems section, and its support systems from the Battlesuit Support Systems section. You ignore the Battlesuit wargear section completly. Think of it like this; All the weapons and support systems are equipment that is attached to the crisis suit itself. Wargear, on the other hand, is worn -inside- the crisis suit, usually by it's pilot, so only distinguished persons can have actual wargear.

Now, with your HQ, your bodyguards are distinguished people, so every member of that squad can access both the Wargear and Special Issue gear, ontop of normal crisis suit options. But don't go overboard on this, don't give things upgrades just because you can, it's a waste of points.

For your crisis team, you can only have 3 things on the crisis suits, and it can't be Wargear. If you upgrade your crisis suit leader to be a Team Leader, or a Shas'vre, then -he- can select from the wargear, but only him, the other 2 suits still only get 3 peices of equipment maximum.

Again, it depends on what you plan to use the battlesuits for. From the look of it, you need medium-range firepower, and a Fireknife is just the answer for that. If you were to take your crisis team as a fireknife team, then each crisis suit would be 62 points each, and each battlesuit will be able to fire 2 str 7 ap 4 shots, and the plasma shots. You probably want to spend 10 points to promote a Team Leader and bond the squad as well, especially if you want to give the team leader a drone controller and take some drones along for the ride. By themselves they may not be that accurate, but tau now have a beautiful solution to this problem.

Marker drones. Before the rules prevented markerdrones from moving and firing their markerlights, but now they count as jump infantry, and jump infantry count as relentless, allowing them to fire their marker lights on the move, and even jsj now, making them wonderful attachments to a crisis team. They -are- a bit expensive, but if you really really want to be that accurate, 60 points in Markerdrones is a potential +2 BS for the whole team, and for both their missiles and their plasma, not just their plasma, a better choice then +1 BS for the squad and one TLed weapon for the same 60 pts... especially since that's illegal anyways, since the teams only get 3 hardpoints, and a Targetting Array would demand an extra slot.

I wouldn't take 2 of them, personally, but 1 might be a nice touch.

"Troops
10 man Fire Warrior squad Shas'vre and Marker drone 140 points

10 man Fire Warrior squad Shas'vre and Marker drone 140 points

10 man Fire Warrior squad Shas'vre and Marker drone 140 points

10 Man fire warrior squad no up grades 100 Points "

Now the firewarriors themselves. Again, the upgrades are a bit expensive for a 10-man team. Remember, firewarriors are 6-12, so if you were to drop those upgrades and instead take a Team Leader and Markerlight you get more-or-less the same result, but for the same points, you're getting 2 more firewarriors in each squad, a difference of 4 shots at close range. Of course, with the new relentless rule, Markerdrones are almost worth their cost now, but that doesn't mean you should take them everywhere. The only time you should have markerdrones is when they are attached to a mobile squad to provide that squad with markerlight shots.

Since you haven't mobilized them in a devilfish, then that would mean you're either playing static, or you're horribly confused. Either way, devilfish or not, you probably don't want to bother with markerdrones on firewarriors, it's just not worth it.

Pathfinders on the other hand... well... that's different. You want high BS on battlesuits and just about anywhere else you need it? Then you want pathfinders. A full team of pathfinders is a yummy addition to an army like this, giving you all that marker-goodness. And since they've fixed the scout rule, you can now make your scout move with the Pathfinder's Devilfish, a nice comfey 12" move to get your pathfinders somewhere nice at the beggining of the game. Or, if you feel particularily bold and the situation calls for it, they can perform a flanking manuver from -inside- the devilfish, bringing an annoyingly tough skimmer onto the board from potentially any table edge. Oh the possibilities.

"Heavy support
3x Broadsides with multitracker target lock and +1 bs 270 points

3x Broadsides with multitracker target lock and +1 bs 270 points "

As for the Broadsides, you're looking at the same problem as the crisis suits. Too expensive, and you're not even allowed to take all that anyways. Really, you don't even need it.

with Broadsides, here's what you want: A) Mobility to bring those railguns to bear wherever needed. B) endurance to allow your broadsides to fire without as much fear of being mauled in the process.
You solve this with the Advanced Stabilizer System, and Shield Drones. A broadside with an ASS will cost 80 points. So that's 240 pts. You want my oppinion though?(and I'm assuming you do, or you wouldn't still be reading this). Don't take 3 broadsides. Take 2. With 2 squads of 2 Broadsides, with pathfinder marker support, you can drop basically anything. Even a monolith is easy pickings for that. Even in a bad case, where most of your markerlights miss, all you need is 2 out of 8 of them to hit to give the broadsides BS 5, twinlinked, meaning only if you roll a 1 twice in a row with both guns will you actually miss. And then it's a matter of scoring the hit. All you need is a 4 up to punch through that armor, and a 4+ again to pop it from the game for good(with the +1 from being AP1). I'd put those kinds of odds on a -single- broadside. With 4 you should have no trouble picking apart whatever heavy armor comes along.

That aside, a 2-man broadside team, with ASS, a team leader, drone controller, 2 shield drones and Bonded, will only cost exactly 200 points. A nice, round, easy number. Besides, as mentioned earlier, you're not going to get much out of splitting fire via target locks, and without that, that third broadside is rarely going to help much anyways. Broadsides are meant for popping off multiple railgun shots on a single target, more then spreading out and hitting several targets from one firing posistion. Markerlights can make whatever you need to happen, happen.

"Hammer head with 2 burst cannons and disruption pods 155 Points "

Last is the hammerhead. Given that you've already got so much anti-armor, have you consistered maybe a Skyray instead? Or a hammerhead with an ion cannon? A skyray would provide yet even -more- markerlights to toy around with(and these ones at a great BS too), and since they're one of Tau's only defensive weapons anymore, you can run around 12" and pop markerlights around, then have fun with missiles and other shenannigans.

As an alternative, the Ionhead is a great marine-killer, easily capible of popping 3 3+sv targets per turn with the ion cannon, then it's your pick on the support weapons. No matter what you pick, you'll still be cheaper then a Railhead.

As a further alternative(and a personal favorite of mine), consiter Sniper Drones. They are quirky, amusing, seemingly-non-threatening... and your opponent will have no idea what hit them. A sniperteam is, for 80 points, a BS4(that's -very- good) networked markerlight, and 3 long-range, pinning plasma rifle shots that can all pick out different targets. Well, they're ap3 not ap2, but against power armor, it's all the same business. With stealth they are hard to hit on top of that and their range makes them truely good at their role. If that wasn't peachy enough, you can take 3 of those teams as a single heavy support choice! Now -that- would give you a lot of medium-level firepower. A maxed out sniper-drone choice, with fireknife crisis suits will give you a great amount of anti-power armor / anti-light vehicle shots. The firewarriors give you a strong anti-infantry base, the broadsides give you a strong anti-heavy armor base. And of course with pathfinders as well, you make all of these groupings so much better then they already are.

And in the end, with all that, it'd -still- be cheaper then what you have up now, meaning you could take even -more- stuff.


So in summary:

-You have to fix some things in your list. Right now it's simply not legal, but that's okay because you don't really need a lot of those upgrades anyhow.
-Cheapen some of your stuff up, make room to take new things, and greater numbers in other things.
-SERIOUSLY consiter taking Pathfinders, they should make a world of difference in an army like this.
-You might also want to consiter the sniper drones instead of the hammerhead.
-Also, as another note, if you still have points left over, consiter kroot as well to discourage enemies trying to charge your firewarriors purely on the principal that they're firewarriors and usually lose. Most units will not blindly rush a firewarrior line if there's a huge mob of hungry kroot hovering near it.

EDIT: How silly of me, I totally forgot about the commander. I'm tired now, so I won't talk about it too much. Generally you want an invunerable save on him. Either a shield drone or a shield generator, your pick. Stimunlat injector is a must. He's too expensive a unit to -not- give him something like this. A stimulant injector will save your ass so much you'll wonder how you lived without it, especially against some pesky ap3 weapons. Against small-arms fire its a godsend, literally giving you a second 4+ save against whatever your armor failed to stop in the first place, and for 10 points it just adds so much more endurance to the model. Other funness include some of the Special Issue weaponry(which are all great to have, and not just on the commander either.), Iridium Armor and the lovable ejection system. Iridium armor is handy. The more people get used to using things like Run in 5th ed, the more people are going to start seeing that moving d6 instead of 6 is really not all -that- bad for a 2+ armor save, and never needing to worry about krak missiles again.

Thats a very well writen and thought out response lanz sadly I changed the list just after you typed all that up

but it is changed up top now what do you all think it is legal now and load outs are a bit different what do you think?

Okies, after glancing it over...

BOND THEM DAMNNIT! Do you know that if a measly 5 drones in that command squad die, and they break for whatever reason, they CAN'T regroup? They'll just run off the table and bam, 300 points gone because you lost like 70 pts of drones. You can't get away with fielding large groups of expensive Tau, and not bonding them. It's madness.

Anyways, it's looking better. Personally I wouldn't recommend the flamers, you don't want to get that close to anything worth flaming with crisis suits that expensive.

The fireteams look much better. A much cleaner cost. Remeber again though, you can toss 2 more firewarriors into each of those squads. They max out at 12, not 10.

My points still stand about making the broadside teams smaller and adding Pathfinders if you can fit them in, and I recommend experimenting with sniper drones(test them out with some proxys using normal gundrones to see how they handle) and compare how useful they are against having the hammerhead instead for the points they cost.

Otherwise it's looking a lot better.

Lanz wrote:Okies, after glancing it over...

BOND THEM DAMNNIT! Do you know that if a measly 5 drones in that command squad die, and they break for whatever reason, they CAN'T regroup? They'll just run off the table and bam, 300 points gone because you lost like 70 pts of drones. You can't get away with fielding large groups of expensive Tau, and not bonding them. It's madness.

Anyways, it's looking better. Personally I wouldn't recommend the flamers, you don't want to get that close to anything worth flaming with crisis suits that expensive.

The fireteams look much better. A much cleaner cost. Remeber again though, you can toss 2 more firewarriors into each of those squads. They max out at 12, not 10.

My points still stand about making the broadside teams smaller and adding Pathfinders if you can fit them in, and I recommend experimenting with sniper drones(test them out with some proxys using normal gundrones to see how they handle) and compare how useful they are against having the hammerhead instead for the points they cost.

Otherwise it's looking a lot better.

I am going to leave my broad sides the way they are mainly because of my dice rolling I almost always get pens but on the damage result rolls I roll 1's and 2' all the time so I had to add an additional 1 to each and that has gotten rid of my issue botching damage rolls.

My marine army has awsume luck with flamers so I will give it a try with my Tau if I don't like it i can rework it(i magnetize all my weapon options so I am never stuck with anything ).

Right now I am a bit short for points and I have yet to need a bonding knife but if it starts becoming an issue I will get one.

I am acually tempted to ditch my hammer head for another 3 suits and then i would have the additional points to Bonding knife my HQ

I will play test it both ways this week.

You can drop a drone and bond both your HQ and crisis team. I don't think you'd suffer much from losing a single str5 shot at BS2.

Lanz wrote:You can drop a drone and bond both your HQ and crisis team. I don't think you'd suffer much from losing a single str5 shot at BS2.

I can't do that it would make sense I will add that now lol

Happy now??

It's getting there. It's definatly a huge improvment over the original, and you should notice some pretty big changes in how they perform.

But still.... pathfinders... And the broadsides... You could knock enough points off those broadside teams to field a whole extra crisis team and I really don't think that the 2-less railguns will hurt you much.

Path finders = 2KP NO!

I am happy with 6 broad sides personally but I would not lament loosing the hammer head.

Well, as an alternative. If you dropped two of the broadsides, giving you 170 points to play with, you could field a Deathrain crisis team, which are like high-mobility Broadsides designed for light armor. With a twin-linked missile pod and target lock, they can split their fire more effectivly then broadsides could, and each one is firing not one, but two twin-linked shots that are easily capible of decimating anything under armor 12 with a single battlesuit. And if they combine their fire, their odds of dropping even armor 12(or possibly even armor 13, though that's better for the broadsides) aren't too shabby. And in a case where your opponent has a lot of armor on the field, having something like a Deathrain team frees up the broadsides and hammerhead to commit their fire purely on the heaviest targets, leaving everything else in the very-capible hands of the Deathrains.

If you took Deathrains, you could also consiter swapping your fireknives for Helios teams, taking a fusion Blaster instead of the Missile Pod. A Helios is a scary thing. At 12" each suit can potentially drop 3 terminators. They run a high casualty risk from being so close to the enemy, but if you're planning on using flamers anyways, then close you certinly will be.

The fire knives are for finishing off a Hord unti like orks daemons IG I am not going to runmy suits close to anythign scary especially terminators lol.

Like i saif if anything I will be dropping my hammer head since now that I am no longer running mechanized it really doesn't fit with this army but 3 more suits will.

Well, however you fit it. I wouldn't recommend Fireknives for dealing with hordes though. I suppose they aren't particularily -bad- at the role, but it's a bit expensive. If you want anti-horde, you might also consiter Prinhas or stealth suits. Stealthsuits get a nice batch of burst cannons onto the field for a reasonable price, and they are easy to sneak around with. Prinhas are more expensive, but they get almost twice the shots and are way tougher to take down. If nothing else, a piranha is a toughness 6 model with a 4+ cover save, 12" movement, and 5 pulse shots.

Lanz wrote:Well, however you fit it. I wouldn't recommend Fireknives for dealing with hordes though. I suppose they aren't particularily -bad- at the role, but it's a bit expensive. If you want anti-horde, you might also consiter Prinhas or stealth suits. Stealthsuits get a nice batch of burst cannons onto the field for a reasonable price, and they are easy to sneak around with. Prinhas are more expensive, but they get almost twice the shots and are way tougher to take down. If nothing else, a piranha is a toughness 6 model with a 4+ cover save, 12" movement, and 5 pulse shots.

I will try it as is but I can adjust the weapon load out a dozen different ways so no worries there.

List has been edited with minor gear changes I dropped the flamers since I would really rather not be too close to my enemy the last thing I want is for my expensive HQ to get charged by some ork CC monstrosity.

Broadsides have been lowered in cost a bit and bonding knives have been distributed appropreately.

I appreciate any thoughts or comments you all have.

-Zhet