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Really excited for this new set. Already planning on splitting it with my brother, I can't wait to pick up those Scions of Flame. Terrain looks fun, and the pieces from the old set can be combined with the terrain pack I already have. Impatient for that pre-order date.

I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.

The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.

Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.

I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.

I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.

 Hellfury wrote:
I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.

The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.

Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.

I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.

I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.

Yeah, the terrain is truly terrible cartoon levels of bad. I would honestly be embarrassed if someone saw that sitting on a shelf and I had to fess up that it belonged to me, not some kid.

I have not formed an opinion about the new terrain yet, generally speaking I need to be able to make out a lot more detail to determine if I like something or not.

Look okay but it'll probably be 20-30US$ higher than the previous starter so I'll probably be skipping this one.

Chopstick wrote:
Look okay but it'll probably be 20-30US$ higher than the previous starter so I'll probably be skipping this one.

That'd be a hard sell. A handful of doors and odd bits doesn't match up to the big pile of ruins in the original box.
Though these gangs look better.

Voss wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
Look okay but it'll probably be 20-30US$ higher than the previous starter so I'll probably be skipping this one.

That'd be a hard sell. A handful of doors and odd bits doesn't match up to the big pile of ruins in the original box.
Though these gangs look better.

Well they're including terrain from the original set as well. I'm excited for that because the Defiled Ruins terrain kit I got has some cards that combine both kits. Nice to have some variety in there. Brother and I are planning on splitting the kit, DoK for him and Scions for me. He'll get the dungeon stuff. I actually think it looks pretty fun and camp. Wouldn't be embarrassed to have it on my shelf at all!

The doors with the giant distorted skulls are pretty bad.

But if the usual pricing trend for starters continues, you can easily throw out the lava half of the box and still come out ahead.

Anyway I'm doing the opposite and going all in on the lava. Gonna pester Deep Cut Studio until they make a pure lava mat, and I'll 3d print some half sunken platforms to jump between.

If I was to guess on a price point for this I would say it will be a bit cheaper than the original starter. I know GW isn't one to really drop costs, but there is substantially less stuff in this box than the original. You get about 3/4s the terrain in this box (including the catacombs terrain), and you lose out on 12 models in that there are no wild monsters in the box. Because of that I think price point will end up at 160 USD, Maybe 150.

My bet is for $160 US. The last few "starter" boxes have been at that point. And while other manufacturers might reduce the price of a starter that has less material, GW will not. Look at the 2nd Kill Team Starter; same price as the 1st, but fewer figures, less terrain (and not as useful terrain at that.). Similarly, The Blood Of The Phoenix with the new Jain Zar, plastic Banshees, Drazhar and Incubi was $230 for 22 figures!

 Sabotage! wrote:
If I was to guess on a price point for this I would say it will be a bit cheaper than the original starter. I know GW isn't one to really drop costs, but there is substantially less stuff in this box than the original. You get about 3/4s the terrain in this box (including the catacombs terrain), and you lose out on 12 models in that there are no wild monsters in the box. Because of that I think price point will end up at 160 USD, Maybe 150.

I reckon it'll be around 185-220US$ These thing do sold out, can't see any reason to drop price.

 Gallahad wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:
I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.

The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.

Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.

I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.

I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.

Yeah, the terrain is truly terrible cartoon levels of bad. I would honestly be embarrassed if someone saw that sitting on a shelf and I had to fess up that it belonged to me, not some kid.

I'd be embarrassed that I cared that much about how my toy buildings look.

ERJAK wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:
I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.

The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.

Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.

I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.

I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.

Yeah, the terrain is truly terrible cartoon levels of bad. I would honestly be embarrassed if someone saw that sitting on a shelf and I had to fess up that it belonged to me, not some kid.

I'd be embarrassed that I cared that much about how my toy buildings look.

Seriously? Visual appeal and aesthetics are a huge part of miniature wargaming. Pretending like it is embarrassing to care about is first rate hobby hipsterism.

I don't like wargaming ironically. I find it an incredibly compelling hobby. Maybe you are too cool to care about slopping schlock on the table because 'it's just a game bro!" But I'm not.
I've used my fair share of budget terrain that wasn't very visually compelling but the stuff in this box is neither budget friendly nor visually compelling. I find the aesthetics and design of the terrain cheap and thoughtless, the aesthetic equivalent of a basic Mcdonald burger.

Buy it without passion if you must, but I'd be embarrassed to own it.

I'm Gallahad on this thinking.

At the very least I'd prefer kitschy 80 bad guy cartoon throwbacks to be optional than being thrown into a new starter, and I say that as the guy who made the he-man conversion on reddit.

this stuff is.perfect for if you want He-Mans skeletor, or Thundercats mum-ra fortress of aesthetic and not much else.

For premium prices Id prefer something much more versatile than this. (or what GW usually presents as skull covered anything for that matter, but that's a complaint for a different time.)

part of why this is all frustrating is because.of just how great the warband sculpts are.

The warbands will be available separately if you really hate the terrain that much.

It's a shame that the catacombs of the Chaos-built citadel is built like wacky Chaos architecture.

Really would be nice if it was all built to look like the ruins of devastated nations that were the Bloodwind Spoils.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The warbands will be available separately if you really hate the terrain that much.

Indeed, and that's how I'll be purchasing my scions of the flame, certainly.

Also don't forget if they follow the normal Warcry pattern there will be two boxes for each warband (or at least the Slaves to Darkness one); one with one band and cards for Warcry and one with no cards but two sets of fighters for regular (at a slightly higher, but saving, price)

I dont think the double set is out for spire tyrants yet, is it?

Im wouldn't dream of the double set for scions of the flame anytime before next June. Hopefully I'm well wrong on that though!

Lets face it without Corona chances are we'd have had this set in Q1 or Q2 of this year rather than lagging into Q4. Spire Tyrants duel release might well have been part of it.

that's totally true!

maybe they will come out as one of the kits for the new AoS books that might end up with Slaanesh coming back proper in the setting.

Man some people seem to care quite a lot about terrain specifics. I did not expect to see people so passionate about the basic shape of one piece of one doorframe in a larger terrain set that is itself part of a larger box, it seems excessive to me to be quite so invested. But I suppose it is a strictly subjective matter, so who am I to judge.

I don't know if I will mind them but worst case I chuck out the doors I don't like and still have a pretty good box set.

Lets face it the boxed sets typically give a nice discount and are sold through 3rd parties for more discounting - at worst the doors are basically free.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Man some people seem to care quite a lot about terrain specifics. I did not expect to see people so passionate about the basic shape of one piece of one doorframe in a larger terrain set that is itself part of a larger box, it seems excessive to me to be quite so invested. But I suppose it is a strictly subjective matter, so who am I to judge.

I don't know if I will mind them but worst case I chuck out the doors I don't like and still have a pretty good box set.

If it were just one.door frame I think people could live with it, but pretty much all the lava dungeon terrain is that bad.

Are there closer/more detail images I missed? I am finding it hard to believe someone would judge the whole thing just with what we have.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are there closer/more detail images I missed? I am finding it hard to believe someone would judge the whole thing just with what we have.

Pretty clear. just the far left one is a bit naff to me.

Some of the arches are good, some aren't, it's not a huge deal for me. On the image above, those arches on the right of the pic look great (as they do in the other ic imo) and even the crappier ones that are used to support the walkway in the centre look fine when used for that purpose. The arches used for doorways on the left look mediocre but acceptable. We can't see the worst set (imo) in that pic, the ones with the big skull, but even so, I think the set as a whole looks fine. I definitely don't look at the pic above and think "Wow, so very trite".

I really don't see an issue with the doors. They give me a WHQ vibe and i like them for it.

Yeah, the doorway with the warped skulls is super weird, everything else is fine. As if GW doesn't always fill every crevice with some skulls...

1/3 of the doors look goofy, the rest nicely fit the GW aesthetic. I don't see it as an issue, as I am more interested in the boards and miniatures. I don't place much value on doors and arches as a whole as I have about 30 years worth of GW (and other) gaming arches/doors/etc.