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Although I've been playing 40k for 20 years I have never got round to playing WHFB, Well I finally decided to give it a go and have bought some OK units.

I have built this list using advice given to others in this forum and would welcome any further advice to improve it, please remember that I have not as yet played a game so if my logic seems a little off then feel free to tell me.

Tyrant, Cathayan, h/armour, wyrd stone 236pts
2x Maneaters, Cathyan, h/armour 180pts

Butcher 130pts

3x Bulls, Bellower 115pts

3x Bulls, Bellower 115pts

3x Ironguts, Bellower 154pts

3x Ironguts, Bellower 154pts

3x Ironguts, Bellower 154pts

3x Ironguts, Bellower 154pts

3x Ironguts, Bellower 154pts

3x Ironguts, Bellower 154pts

20x Gnoblar 40pts

20x Gnoblar 40pts

4x Leadbelcher 220pts

Total: 2000pts


Notes:
Butcher is there primarily to give me some dispel dice although he will run with some iron guts and lay the smackdown.
Gnoblars are to shield, hit some one in the flanks or for outnumbering.

Any advice would be useful.

Thanks

The list looks pretty solid. If I were you though, I would run the leadbelchers as two 2 man unit instead of 1 four. Not sure if you know about the cool rule that leadbelchers will re-load there guns after they rally. This means that you can use them to bait your opponent, if they fall for it great, if not they can shoot the begeezus out of them. Also, if you lose one, a bellower will allow them to rally and re-load all in the same turn. : )

As far as the 1 Butcher, I don't think this is a good idea. The extra dispel dice (only 1) is not worth the point sink from the model. My thinking is that if you want to run butchers, you should run 2 or none of them.

2 give you the ability to actually do some good with the Ogres AWSOME!!!! magic. (and believe me it really is some of the greatest per price magic in the game) or running none allows you to put the points into something else.

You also might try playing with a Gorger or two. Ogres really don't have the ability to take out war machines quickly and these are your best option.

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding the butcher; fair comment, I thought you would get 2 dispel dice for having a magic user and another 2 for him counting as a level 2 wizard. So if I only get one then that certainly changes things.

How about I knock the Leadbelcher unit down to 3 men and give them a bellower, then with the points save on that added to the points saved on losing the butcher I could have 2 Gorgers.

Both issues solved.

I personally like Brace of Handguns on Maneaters, solid amount of shots and extra hand weapon in cc.

2 units of 2 Leadbelchers is definitely the way to go.

I commonly go up against someone with only 1 butcher and he does just fine.

I'd take out 2 units of Ironguts, make the remaining 4 man units and add in another unit of bulls and give them ogre clubs

Damn.

Gorgers are Rare Choices.

@Tizz:

I thought I would just leave shooting pretty much alone and concentrate on marching every turn.

2 Units of 2 does make more sense.

I'm glad you said that, I'm sure that at 130pts a butcher wouldn't be rubbish.

Hmmm last idea kind of goes against the MSU feel. What would be the benefit?

Hey, welcome to the better game system

Certainly, splitting the leadbelchers into units of two is a superior choice.

I am not sure how powerful a list you're looking to build, but if you are really open for suggestiions:
-you really want a unit of trappers for marhc blocking certain armies, notably VC, DoC and Brets as soon as you can - these lists can really just run over the top of you otherwise - you need to buy time to manoevure, then you have good chances.

-braces of handguns are certainly better for the maneaters.

-units of 4 ironguts are generally considered slightly superior (though units of 3 bulls are correct) to units of 3, as this is the most models you can engage with against a normal rank and file unit.

-I would drop at least one unit, likely two, to get two more butchers with some dispel scrolls to help with your severe magic vulnerability.

-the tyrant should have the tenderiser - it is one of the best magic weapons in the game, and easily the best in the OK list.

good luck!

Hmmm, We'll see about the "better" part. I am still trying to grasp the rules hence the dispel dice mistake.

I am not sure how powerful this is as I have nothing to compare it to, all I can say is that my two main competitors have both been playing a while and use bret, skaven and chaos warriors.

BoC? Really? I read them and just thought they would be a bit of a non event.

Aaah, 4 are better because of the width of the unit... I understand.

Is this in addition to my current Butcher, meaning 3 total? that seems alot as the orginal concept was to forfeit magic in favour of more units. My one butcher was just for dispel dice really.

I don't have the list in front of me so will look at the tenderiser when I get home.

Thanks for your comments

Yes, the Tenderizer is totally amazing!! Plus you need to make sure you have a way to take out ethereal units (VC, Green Knight, etc.). Magic weapons are the only things that can harm them and the Tenderizer is one as well. Plus it’s a total character killer.

Since you are fairly new to the game, you may not have experienced this much, but characters can be pretty pesky. They don't usually tip the balance completely for an army's win ratio, but you need to make sure you have a way of dealing with them. Whether it is to avoid them completely (if you can) or get up in their faces and fight. And Ogres FIGHT! The Tenderizer will make mince meat out of the mid-grade character and give you a fighting chance against a bad-ass lord.

Also, take a look at the Yhetees. They are basically the cavalry for OK. Their weapons count as magical, and they have 'scale terrain,' meaning they ignore difficult terrain. Some people are a little skeptical of them, because of their point cost; however, I am a HUGE fan. They usually always draw missile fire since they are fast, which allows you to set up the rest of your charges, and they are always great for charging out of a forest and catching someone off guard.

I saw a dirty trick for ogres on someone's blog that might be of some use if you just want one butcher. Get a BSB Bruiser with the Rune Maw banner, it redirects spells cast at its unit on a 2+. Stick it in the unit that has the tyrant. Have the butcher with 3x gnoblar theif stones follow it a short distance behind, but screened from shooting. Then run a block of gnoblars near by. On a 2+ you can redirect spells from the "hammer" unit to either the butcher with MR 3, or the throw away unit of gnoblars. Since moral is a problem with ogres, having a BSB is useful in its own right.

Your tyrant should be tooled up for over killing, especially in challenges, so the Tenderizer is really good. With 5 high strength multiple wound attacks coming of a ogre base, you shouldn't have to much trouble beating all but the strongest characters.

Leadbelchers are great. I had a unit of 2 pretty much kill off a block of chaos warriors the other day. Sure they rolled REALLY well that day, and I got lucky and got them to run on the first volley so i had time to reload for a second... Most shooting units are very happy if they knock a rank off a turn. Leadbelchers are capable of much more than that. They are also capable of utterly failing you, or getting shot to ribbons before they get to do their thing. High risk high reward unit that is for sure.

As its your first game keep it relatively simple.

Bait and flee and gut magic (you should always have 3 butchers) should be kept to a minimum to help you learn the basics first.

If its your first game perhaps you should be looking at a few 1000 point games.

As an aside to all that.

Make your ironguts units of 4.

Agree the leadbelchers should be in units of 2 (with bellower in each).