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Guys, i have been having problems with termie mobs. so i have came up with a great way to stop them: plasma cannons. they can hit hit multiple targets, makes them take their 6+ invuls and with a chapter masters bombardment You can easily kill of those packs of terminatorsand plus its easier then waiting for your opponets to roll a , and a few other weapons like las cannons and missle launchers can easily kill a swarm of termies. feel free to discuss any more heavy infanty killing tactics!

any decent marine player would simply use cover and simply avoid your plasma cannons. Best way to take down termiantors is either power weapons or lots of rapid fire, if you hit him with 20 boltgun shots he will probarly roll a 1

The big problem with plasma cannon spam is that it costs an absolutely ridiculous amount for the longevity of the models. How easy is it to kill 6 marines (even marines in cover)? Very easy. When those 6 guys cost 200+ points, you're looking at a vulnerable point sink.

Added to that how the Terminator's most common mode of transport, the Land Raider, laughs at plasma cannon S7 and shrugs off all your shots with impunity.

Now, this isn't to say that plasma cannons are terrible, but I really think that kitting out Devastator squads is not the way to win matches.

10 man tac squads can take a plasma cannon for a paltry 5 points. Then you can combat squad to get 4 ablative wounds surrounding your gunner. Three tac squads will give you 3 plasma cannons, which is really all you should need for nuking walking Terminators.

You can also take Dreadnoughts with plasma cannons, which again are only a minimal point upgrade over the norm and have the advantage of ignoring Gets Hot! rolls. As an added bonus the Dread is pretty good at killing Termies in close combat.

So yes, plasma cannons are pretty good, but please don't waste your points and slots on loading out devastator squads. They're just not cost efficient.

Obliterators are good platforms for plasma cannons.

EDIT:

Missile launchers are useless against terminators because they still get their 2+ save against Krak missiles.

ultramarine1 wrote:Guys, i have been having problems with termie mobs. so i have came up with a great way to stop them: plasma cannons. they can hit hit multiple targets, makes them take their 6+ invuls and with a chapter masters bombardment You can easily kill of those packs of terminatorsand plus its easier then waiting for your opponets to roll a , and a few other weapons like las cannons and missle launchers can easily kill a swarm of termies. feel free to discuss any more heavy infanty killing tactics!

Best Dev loadout in the game;

Dev squad with Plasma Cannons
Inq Elite close to Dev Squad w/ two mystics and lots of cheap wounds

Anything that deep strikes close is dead.

Quad Multi-melta in a drop-pod with a librarian.
Sure they can't fire their first turn... but when they can *foooosh*
Or just deploy them, and drop the pod separate.

Edit: typo

whitedragon wrote:Obliterators are good platforms for plasma cannons.

EDIT:

Missile launchers are useless against terminators because they still get their 2+ save against Krak missiles.

not they do not, as the krak is stregth 8, wich causes insta death to the str 4 marines.

Lord Bingo wrote:any decent marine player would simply use cover and simply avoid your plasma cannons. Best way to take down termiantors is either power weapons or lots of rapid fire, if you hit him with 20 boltgun shots he will probarly roll a 1

yeah, but they will only have a 3 plus at best, because any worthwhile marine player would not put their termies in a bunker or take them to the ground. and 20 bolt gun shots are only so good when you are shooting at a 10 man termie squad because that means that the termies are only 12 inches away, so they will kill that squad next turn.

sourclams wrote:The big problem with plasma cannon spam is that it costs an absolutely ridiculous amount for the longevity of the models. How easy is it to kill 6 marines (even marines in cover)? Very easy. When those 6 guys cost 200+ points, you're looking at a vulnerable point sink.

Added to that how the Terminator's most common mode of transport, the Land Raider, laughs at plasma cannon S7 and shrugs off all your shots with impunity.

Now, this isn't to say that plasma cannons are terrible, but I really think that kitting out Devastator squads is not the way to win matches.

10 man tac squads can take a plasma cannon for a paltry 5 points. Then you can combat squad to get 4 ablative wounds surrounding your gunner. Three tac squads will give you 3 plasma cannons, which is really all you should need for nuking walking Terminators.

You can also take Dreadnoughts with plasma cannons, which again are only a minimal point upgrade over the norm and have the advantage of ignoring Gets Hot! rolls. As an added bonus the Dread is pretty good at killing Termies in close combat.

So yes, plasma cannons are pretty good, but please don't waste your points and slots on loading out devastator squads. They're just not cost efficient.

the land raider can be taken care of by a las cannon or two and do like the dread Idea.

Belphegor wrote:Quad Multi-melta in a drop-pod with a librarian.
Sure they can fire their first turn... but when they can *foooosh*
Or just deploy them, and drop the pod separate.

yes i cant see it now...

*SM player drops a 5 melta squad of devs next to a vehicle*

SM player: haha on my next turn im going to melta your tank into the ground

Opponent: thats alright i think ill just drive 12" in this direction

SM player: ...oh

ultramarine1 wrote:

whitedragon wrote:
Missile launchers are useless against terminators because they still get their 2+ save against Krak missiles.

not they do not, as the krak is stregth 8, wich causes insta death to the str 4 marines.

Regwon:
SM player: ...oh

actually it would be:
SM play: ... oh, since I'm a good sport I'll let you rethink that. Since your giving my 31 point model a free auto-hitting shot at your 250 pt land Raider.
  did you forget that it's a Multi-Melta and they penetrate AV14 on average thus successfully meets the requirement of DoG on a 7+ on 2D6
  with the added bonus of outright destroying it 50% of the time when penetrating due to AP 1
I dream of opponents negating the weakness of Multi-Meltas being heavy by giving me a free shot during their turn by attempting to Tank Shock Multi-Melta Dev squads
oh please, pretty please do that with each tank you can.

not they do not, as the krak is stregth 8, wich causes insta death to the str 4 marines.

You'd have to show me that one in the rules. The Krak is only AP 3, allowing the terminator a full 2+ save. If he fails the save, he would suffer instant death because the ST is double the base TO but nowhere does it say that instant death weapons negate armor regardless of AP.

Well, Devastators are less useful in the new edition.
First, the enemy often gets cover saves and tanks are more resilient thanks to the new armor penetration table.
Second, Devastators can be threatened by outflanking units.

In the particular case of the OP, the enemy can eventually shield the Termies by a tank.

Belphegor wrote:

Regwon:
SM player: ...oh

actually it would be:
SM play: ... oh, since I'm a good sport I'll let you rethink that. Since your giving my 31 point model a free auto-hitting shot at your 250 pt land Raider.
  did you forget that it's a Multi-Melta and they penetrate AV14 on average thus successfully meets the requirement of DoG on a 7+ on 2D6
  with the added bonus of outright destroying it 50% of the time when penetrating due to AP 1
I dream of opponents negating the weakness of Multi-Meltas being heavy by giving me a free shot during their turn by attempting to Tank Shock Multi-Melta Dev squads
oh please, pretty please do that with each tank you can.

did you think i meant towards you? oh heavens no. why would i drive into death or glory multimeltas? that would be foolish.

much better to drive 12" away from you. 4 shots only glancing on 6's make devastators make a sad face

to Regwon:
either way, since it effectively creates a 24 inch "no-fly-zone" around around the Multi-Melta Devs.
and 4x Str 8 AP1 eats heavy infantry at 24 inches, so thats a 48 no terminator zone also
so if a play is committed to be out of range of them, the player with the Devs is give a large amount of table control
especially if they are deployed in the opponent's path to an objective that you control
They're are really good at area denial, and cannot be ignored.
(also you need to take a full squad of 10 for the ablative wounds)

It seems every other week somebody comes up with the idea to put Devastators in a drop pod. I can't think of a better way to lose all use of 230+ points worth of guys.

Unless you run a full or nearly full squad, limited shooting kills them before they shoot.

If you drop into terrain, they take dangerous terrain tests; if you don't they get killed without cover saves before they shoot.

It's all but guaranteed they're going to end up closer to an enemy than if they simply deployed in the backfield, letting an assault bog them down or kill them before they shoot.

One bad reserve roll means that it's turn 4 before they get to shoot.

Even in this specific situation, Devastators with multimeltas versus terminators, your heavy weapons are going to kill 2, maybe 3 terminators, total, in the two turns it takes you to set up and shoot. In that amount of time the Termis have already shot you dead or assaulted you dead.

Devastator Squads have the Signum wargear, which is very handy.

ultramarine1 wrote:
not they do not, as the krak is stregth 8, wich causes insta death to the str 4 marines.

Instant Death does not prevent you from taking your armor save. The AP of the weapon still determines whether or not the target gets a save, and against models with 1 wound, instant death is practically useless, except for maybe negating Feel No Pain. Also, Instant Death is checked against a model's Toughness, not Strength.

I've played around with a few lists and it seems much more cost effective to put lascannons in the tactical squads and missile launchers in the devastator squads.

Other than that... I'm not a big fan of devastator squads anymore... too costly.

Here is the Devastator squad I'm playing around with: 10 Marines, 2x Lascannon, 2x Plasmacannon. Total of 290 points.

Plan is to combat squad them into one two lascannon team with the signum and one two plasmacannon team. Gives you dedicated tank killers and dedicated anti-infantry. Sergeant can use the Signum to pump a lascannon a turn and the plasmacannons don't mind being apart from Sarge because they don't really benefit from the Signum as much (would reduce scatter by an additional inch, but can't effect get hot).

Building your Devs to do anything outside of longrange firepower I've come to the conclusion is a waste of points. The multiple heavies and the ability to combat squad lend themselves perfectly to building long and medium range shooty units. Just my two cents.

Why must every one spam 4 weapons? look at the squad this way, you can take 5-10 men and 1-4 heavy weapons ... so why not take 5 men and only 1 heavy weapon?It lets you take advantage of the signum (BS5) and its cheaper then getting a 10 man tac squad for the gun...

Belphegor wrote:to Regwon:
either way, since it effectively creates a 24 inch "no-fly-zone" around around the Multi-Melta Devs.
and 4x Str 8 AP1 eats heavy infantry at 24 inches, so thats a 48 no terminator zone also

I should point out that Multi-Meltas have a range of 24".

I think he's talking about diameter, not just radius.

Tri wrote:Why must every one spam 4 weapons? look at the squad this way, you can take 5-10 men and 1-4 heavy weapons ... so why not take 5 men and only 1 heavy weapon?It lets you take advantage of the signum (BS5) and its cheaper then getting a 10 man tac squad for the gun...

If you're doing that you may as well just take a razorback. The weapons are going to be Twin Linked and it's cheaper overall. I still agree with you, though, that devastator squads are not cost effective.

The key to using Devastators is understanding they are not self supporting.
This cannot be stressed enough.
It's not just the devastators fending off an army by themselves. They will die if they are deployed this way.
Also since they're infantry, as a unit they are more resilient than tanks and can take advantage of terrain better than tanks.
I've killed/disabled enough Land Raiders in the first or second turn with a pair of Necron Heavy Destroyers to understand how frail high point tanks are.
Also a squad of 10 has a high damage output and is cheaper than a land raider. (sans-drop pod)
Area control is Awesome.
Though points-wise any weapons choices other than the H-Bolter, Missile Launcher or Multi-Melta are dubious.

sourclams:
It seems every other week somebody comes up with the idea to put Devastators in a drop pod. I can't think of a better way to lose all use of 230+ points worth of guys.

    One of the main reasons to deploy them in a drop pod is because if you go second they are immune to interaction from the enemy.
    You cannot fire, attack or maneuver around an enemy that is not there.
    So it's less wounds to be taken and full ability to react to enemy deployment.
    Especially if your running a pair of scout bike squads.

Tri:
Why must every one spam 4 weapons? look at the squad this way, you can take 5-10 men and 1-4 heavy weapons ... so why not take 5 men and only 1 heavy weapon?It lets you take advantage of the signum (BS5) and its cheaper then getting a 10 man tac squad for the gun...

    Because it's 5 more wounds, which is five more wounds before the function of the unit degrades.
    As opposed to a zero wound margin before unit degradation
    Also, running than squad layout eats a H-Support choice at reduced firepower and efficiency

To my mind the first thing that Devastators coming in the first wave of a Drop Pod Assault should be doing is moving and then running into a good firing position.

Throwing them down in the middle of the enemy like they were Dreadnoughts, Terminators, or Vanguard, and you deserve the beating you'll invite. You want to bring them down on flanks so that you can crossfire units and deny them cover saves from screening units.

Unless Devastators are deployed on the board, they're always going to give the enemy one turn to react before they do anything because their weapons take a full turn to set up. The analogy with Heavy Destroyers does not compute because Heavy Destroyers can move -very well- before and while firing.

One of the main reasons to deploy them in a drop pod is because if you go second they are immune to interaction from the enemy.
You cannot fire, attack or maneuver around an enemy that is not there.
So it's less wounds to be taken and full ability to react to enemy deployment.
Especially if your running a pair of scout bike squads.

It's self-contradicting. You put them into the drop pod to avoid enemy fire for a turn. They land out of the pod and they waste their turn running and setting up weapons, and the enemy still gets to shoot them first.

Being infantry, they've got some advantages in terrain, but this doesn't speak to putting them in transports, which is what was originally taken exception to.

Nurglitch wrote:To my mind the first thing that Devastators coming in the first wave of a Drop Pod Assault should be doing is moving and then running into a good firing position.

Optimally, they just wasted a turn of fire when their long range weapons would have had them shooting from the get go.

You want to bring them down on flanks so that you can crossfire units and deny them cover saves from screening units.

I've seen you say this one before, but it really doesn't pan out on a board with 25% cover. They're still going to be lobbing shots at units with cover saves, with the added detriment of being closer to the enemy to eat assaults and the danger of scattering off the table edge and dying to deep strike mishap.

sourclams: It's self-contradicting. You put them into the drop pod to avoid enemy fire for a turn. They land out of the pod and they waste their turn running and setting up weapons, and the enemy still gets to shoot them first.

    It's not self-contradicting. They deploy your first turn which is normally spent maneuvering anyway, unless you have a poor opponent. You also get the choice of which of your opponent's units get to fire at them.
    If you set them up poorly and without support within multiple cover-free fields of fire, then you deserve to have them wiped out.
    Plus it very hard to do significant damage to a 10 man marine squad without dedicated fire from multiple units.
    These are units not firing at your tactical squads (which are less output but scoring and ~ the same points)
    and while they deploy they still lob off 16 bolter shots.

sourclams: Being infantry, they've got some advantages in terrain, but this doesn't speak to putting them in transports, which is what was originally taken exception to.

    sure it does, if there are woods or some other 'soft' cover between them and a shooter or two after they deploy. and don't forget the cover from the drop pod

Sourclams:

So they've trade a turn of shooting for a much better position, that's not categorically non-optimal. If you're playing on a board with no cover and your opponent is unable to screen his units effectively, then the extra turn of fire is preferable, but otherwise the better position to deny cover saves means that your remaining rounds of shooting are considerably more effective.

Now I'm using to playing on boards with more than 25% cover, and usually around 50%+ terrain, and I find that being able to crossfire an opponent means that I can deny my opponent cover saves. After all, hiding 50%+ of a unit from one direction is easy, from two or three directions it is much more difficult.

If you're still lobbing shots at units in cover when you have your Devastator's planted on an enemy's flank, then you fail at the shooting phase, as you need to order your shooting in that phase to clear screening units, time casualty removal to affect cover, and optimize the shooting effectiveness of cover-ignoring weapons.

If your Devastators scatter off-board or have a mishap, then you have failed as a strategist to deploy a Locator Beacon where you want their Drop Pod to come down. As mentioned, Scout Bikers are excellent for this.