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Kor'Sarro Khan, Captain of the White Scars 3rd Company has a special rule that I can't quite figure out.

On p94 of the new Space Marines Codex it says:

"Chapter Tactics: In you include Kor'Sarro Khan then all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the ability to outflank. If you choose to do this, all dedicated transports also gain the ability to outflank - see the Reserves mission special rule. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule you must choose which will apply."

Now depending on who you play against this can mean one of three different things. lt can mean:

A) That all the units in the army can outflank.
B) That only those units with "Chapter Tactics" can outflank.
C) That only those units who have a dedicated transport can outflank.

Any thoughts on which this is?

Russ

B, but they lose combat tactics.

Only those units that had the Combat Tactics rule, now replaced by Khan's Chapter Tactics, may outflank. Units without Combat Tactics do not gain the Chapter Tactic as they have nothing to exchange for it.

Agreed. The part about the transports is the clarification that units with a dedicated transport, like a Tactical squad, may still benefit from the Khan's outflank bonus.

It appears that dedicated transports for a unit that does not have combat tactics also gain the outflank rule.

So it does.

It's a good thing all the units that can take dedicated transports (other than drop pods, for whom outflanking is irrelevant) have Combat Tactics!

Of course, unless they have the Scouts or Infiltrate special rules, giving them the Outflank ability doesn't actually do anything...


(And yes, I realise what the intent of the rule is. I just find it amusing that after putting out an Ork Codex that mistakenly gave Waaagh! to units that couldn't benefit from it, they went and wrote the Outflank rule in a way that excludes a whole bunch of units from actually getting any benefit from it.)

Boss Ardnutz wrote:So it does.

It's a good thing all the units that can take dedicated transports (other than drop pods, for whom outflanking is irrelevant) have Combat Tactics!

Inquisitorial stormtroopers and grey knight land raiders taken by inquisitors don't...

skyth wrote:

Boss Ardnutz wrote:So it does.

It's a good thing all the units that can take dedicated transports (other than drop pods, for whom outflanking is irrelevant) have Combat Tactics!

Inquisitorial stormtroopers and grey knight land raiders taken by inquisitors don't...

True this.

"All units in your army exchange the combat tactics special rule for the ability to outflank. If you do this, all dedicated transports also gain the ability to outflank."

If it wasn't for the bolded section, units would not be able to outflank would not be able to if they were embarked in their dedicated transports. However, the bolded sentence also gives the ability to outflank to units without combat tactics that are in the army, so long as they're embarked in dedicated transports.

Makes sense why that sentence is there though. If not, then you could take Khan to give dedicated transports outflank even if you had another special character in your army already replacing combat tactics.

The only models that don't have the "Chapter Tactics" special rule are: Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods, Dreadnoughts (all types), Legion of the Damned, Land Speeders (all types), Land Raiders (all types), Predators and Whirlwinds. Rhinos and Razorbacks are only used as dedicated transports and Land Raiders can be if specified by carrying termniators.

Sounds like this could be useful, but waiting till turn 5 for a 500 point Land Raider/Terminator combo to arrive could be sort of game breaker.

@insaniak - I'm sorry but you've sort of confused me. The rules for Outflank are mission rules. If you're given access to the mission special rule without the normal requirements (scout or inflitrate), then you should be fine.

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rcastronovo wrote: The rules for Outflank are mission rules. If you're given access to the mission special rule without the normal requirements (scout or inflitrate), then you should be fine.

But that's just it... Khan doesn't give them access to anything 'without the normal requirements'... he simply gives them access to the Outflank ability. To find out what Outflank does, you go to the Outflank rules section, where it lists specific deployment rules for units with the Scout or Infiltrate special rule. There is no listed benefit of Outflank for any unit without either of those two rules. It simply doesn't do anything.

As I said, it's obvious what they meant it to do... but it's sloppy writing. As written, it's no different to Stormboyz with WAAAGH!... they can have the rule, but the rule simply doesn't do anything for them because it doesn't include any rules that actually apply to them.

I dunno, I disagree Insaniak. The section on p 94 clearly outlines "outflanking." Yes it says only units with scout or infiltrate can outflank, but Khan overrides that by saying that these other units can. He doesn't say "gives them outflank" he "gives them the ability to outflank" which means that they can deploy using the scenario outlined on p 94.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote: He doesn't say "gives them outflank" he "gives them the ability to outflank"

Which really boils down to the same thing, since having the ability simply means that they reference the rule. And the rule only bestows a benefit on certain units.

But as I said, we know what they meant anyway, so it's really not a big issue.