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So the way I look at it, the VC Rare choices are all pretty good and pretty close in terms of points costs. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to take so I thought I'd pick all of y'all's brains.

I have experience using the Varghulf and the Black Coach and both are pretty devastating. The Varghulf hits pretty hard and has a lot of staying power in case you don't break the unit on the charge. The Black Coach has yet to let me down, usually it breaks my opponents flanks all by itself. It will lose against a ranked unit, but against something with little or no ranks it does quite well with it's high toughness and number of wounds.

I also just painted up 4 cairn wraiths and am eager to try them out. They hit hard, ignore non-magical attacks, and skirmish for 360 degrees LOS. I loved my old, skirmishing ghouls, wraiths seem to be a faster, hittier version.

Haven't used Blood Knights at all. Haven't had the money and they seem the weakest entry of the Rares.

What are your thoughts/experiences?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The coach can get real nasty real fast. In my last game against VC, its powers were maxed out on turn 2

ZF-

8 wraiths FTW!

Move through terrain no problems, and have enough high strenght attacks to smash aside any liaght flankers. Yes you will struggle vs full ranked units but they are rarely out on the flanks. Gold vs ogres...

Blood knights and vargulf are good because they are vampires, other units nearby can march. However they are a 'run up the centre and have all fire directed at them' unit (at least that is the way I've seen them used)

If your opponent doesn't have a cannor (or the 8 bolt throwers I'm taking in my NG force) then a black coach is great.

Are you saying 8 wraiths in one unit or 2 units of 4?

Also, any experiences with Banshees? I used to use one in the old Army Book as it was a cheap unit that I could use to annoy heavily armored knights. Not as convinced now that it replaces one of the wraiths and has 2 fewer attacks.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

One unit of 8.

Or even better 2 units of 8.

Used that way banshees aren't really necessary as you are using the wraiths as a hammer unit.
In smaller units, definitely a banshee so it can crry out its traditional role.

Also there is rarely magic users or magic weapons on the flanks to hurt them...

Why 8? Against a standard 5 man frontage you can get max 7.

I think I need to practice with my wraiths and see how they do compared to my normal Varghulf + Black Coach set-up.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

For 20mm base frontage yes you can only get 7, but imagine going up against cav, or 25mm infantry.

5 Dragon princes... ha!

Or into the flank of Bret lances...

Well looks like I have a choice then between a unit of 4 wraiths and a black coach or a unit of 8 wraiths. I'll mess around with both options and see what fits my play style better.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I'd go with the mix of both, although a unit of 8 wraiths is enough to ruin most people's week, I think the coach is awesome because of it's pace, and the possibility of a flying chariot!!

Wraiths die horribly to fast things with magic attacks (Think Chaos knights or BKs or even Daemons) or concentrated magic missiles. Against armies without, they are nightmare fuel. Very rock-paper-scissors.

Same for Black Coach- The ward save helps, but probably won't save it from Great Cannons, S7 heroes, etc. If they don't have any, it rolls like lightning.

The Varghulf is great support. He is resilient and a vamp. But he must be supported! Alone he has trouble making an impact.

Blood Knights bring frenzy liability (fast cav/throwaway bait units drawing into terrain or just leading around) and are a tempting shot for BTs and Cannons. Since BKs already fill their role admirably (hammer cav unit) at fewer points and with better terrain avoidance, I think they are probably the weakest choice.

I dunno, there's a substantial difference between bloodknights and black knights.

They can both be hammer cav units, but the Blood Knights have the added ability to shrug a charge. That is, they can just march up there in the enemy's face and say "Bring it", and then turf most enemy units, esp. if there's a character in there. Black Knights can't take a charge.

If your knights are getting charged, you're doing it wrong ;-)

Wraiths all the way. They are insanely devastating to most armies, really only demons can handle them quickly since they are all magic attacks.

Blood Knights can be led around. Varghulf isn't that scary in my experiences. Black coach never did much in my experience, but I know it can be powerful.

But in terms of reliable smack down, I hate wraiths with a passion. Especially the common Drakanholf banner super unit which becomes a huge pain to deal with. Oh, toss in the Helm of Command and suddenly you have a unit of ethereal skirmishers that regen with 3 str 5 WS7 attacks a piece.

If you want comp, at least in my neck of the woods, take anything but wraiths. If you want power, take the wraiths.

I've been using Blood Knights and a Varghulf in my army. The Varghulf is fantastic for sure, especially since most of the army moves so slow.

The Blood Knights hit like a ton of bricks, I'm not sure there is a harder hitting unit in the game. They're easy to bait and have running in a circle, which is an issue sometimes but the Varghulf can catch the bait unit and help out. I find the Vaghulf to be incredible fast moving support and hitting power to help out with important combats. His range is great with MV9 and 360* LOS. It seems silly to get him involved with the Blood Knights, but usually its to free the BKs up from their bait unit so they can go straight into the opposing line.

I have a Black Coach sitting on my shelf in its box, I was planning on giving it a try instead of the Blood Knights, but never got around to build it. With the nature of my list (very slow moving), I'm more tempted to drop the Blood Knights for a second Varghulf than any of the other rare options though.

If your having problems w/ your Black Coach your doing it wrong Make sure you have 12+ PD and for the 1st turn, or 2 if need be, have it sit around and suck up Power dice. Once it has flying and ethereal it's great fun

Plus even w/ out that, and even if you don't do that, it is still very savage.

The Blood Knights I don't care for. I have used them and charged w/ them...and ehhh. Yes they are hitty but, once again, not my cup of tea. Frenzy can really hurt and yes I know to screen them. If the enemy is smart they will wheel there units forcing you to over run into nothing when they break

Vargulf? Amazing. Nugh said

Caffran9 wrote: I find the Vaghulf to be incredible fast moving support and hitting power to help out with important combats. His range is great with MV9 and 360* LOS.

Significant error here. The Vargulf is a monster, and thus has only 90 degree LOS to the front, as with all non-skirmisher units.

"Significant error here. The Vargulf is a monster, and thus has only 90 degree LOS to the front, as with all non-skirmisher units. "

Unridden Monsters have 360 line of sight, ridden have 90 in the front.

JoeOrks wrote:
Unridden Monsters have 360 line of sight, ridden have 90 in the front.

Nyet...

P 58 BRB

"Each model is, in effect a unit of one model and it has a front ... flanks and rear as normal"

ZF-

good call, i was thinking of last edition.....my bad

Got it confused with Bestial Fury special rule (which is no flanks or rear for combat res purposes), my bad. I have been playing it correctly thogh