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So how do you guys keep your sternguard alive? Once I put mine within 12" to rapidfire vengeance rounds, they get mangled the next turn by the opponent's assault. They're usually a one-round wonder for like 350pts.
Plus, with 20 shots, I usually get 3-5 one's and have to roll armor saves and lose a model or two.
I've tried putting them in a rhino and scooting them around blasting vehicles with x5 combi-melta's and that works great until they get out.
Am I doing something wrong with them? How should they be used most effectively?
Thanks in advance,
-Pav

Maybe have them accompanied by a Librarian with Force Dome? Use them as bait for units of Assault Marines and/or Vanguard Veterans? Use them as a mobile reserve rather than the vanguard of any attacking force?

I tried them with a libby. Unfortunately, after using Gate, they were all bunched up and got fried with a blast.
How are people using them successfully?

Drop Pods.

Is it the sternguard in drop pod combat squaded or together?

Stern gaurd are nothing more then a point at said target and watch it die. throw 5 in a drop pod each with a combi melta and what ever you target is sure enough to die.

How I keep them alive is I chuck a liby in one along with his powers and force weapon I can pretty much live versus anything for the turn it takes to get them some support.

Another way to get them to live longer is give your opponent something else to think about. does he deal with the stern squad or the 5 man termy squad that just deep struck?

I play the Sternguard a little differently. I use them in a squad of 10 with two plasmacannons and mounted in a Rhino. I deploy them in conjunction with a squad or two of troops and use them to hold down an objective and support the rest of my army with ranged fire and local counter attacks.

They MUST be used in conjunction with other units... my friend made them the only target available to my vindicator... it wasn't pretty.

Aside from distractions, a sternguards best defense is a good offense, just have them attack units that they can kill in one turn of shooting

Good stuff. Thanks. Do you guys think a unit of Sternguard were worth more than 3 vindicators. Sternguard are 350pts for a 10 man squad with 5 combi-melta's and 3 vindicators are 345pts. Hmm.

um... that's a great point... and ...

No. They don't really compare in point cost.

Then again... the sterguard are technically more durable than the vindicators... but they can't dish out pain like vindis can

pavonis wrote:Good stuff. Thanks. Do you guys think a unit of Sternguard were worth more than 3 vindicators. Sternguard are 350pts for a 10 man squad with 5 combi-melta's and 3 vindicators are 345pts. Hmm.

really? because 125+125+25 comes out at 275 for me, where are you getting the extra 75pts from?

you have to be careful when using sternguard. you cant just run them at your enemy and expect them to survive. if they are getting killed in combat, then have other units shoot or assault the danger. if you are losing a couple of marines each round to gets hot then use different ammo (there is no point using vengence rounds on marines in cover, the reduction of the save isnt worth it. use hellfire rounds that wound on 2+ instead). sternguard can shoot anything to death, but they are a glass cannon. they die just like a regular marine you have have to be more cautious about how you use them.

At least initially, Sternguard have to be deployed via drop pod or rhino in order to be effective. Pod is usually the preferred method because they can combat squad *after* the leave in order to shoot 2 different targets upon disembarkation.

As the masters of the short-range firefight, sternguard are completely wasted if they're being forced to hold a line or shoot heavy weapons. Taking No-Move-And-Shoot Guns does nothing but remove the ability that makes them cost 25 pts per model.

With that said, how do you keep them alive? By making other stuff dead. 10 Marines are reasonably resilient; Sternguard working in conjunction with drop [Ironclad] dreadnoughts should be able to make enough things dead to be able to weather the return fire.

sourclams:

So what do you propose to do against enemy assaults? I believe that pavonis was more concerned with surviving assaults than return fire.

You run them with Ironclad drop pod support, just like I stated in the post one up from yours. If your opponent is totally castled, you drop the dreads and pop smoke leaving Sterns in reserve. If he's spread out, you put down both Sterns and 1 or so Ironclad to provide counter assault options after you gut their center or flank.

There is no way to make Sternguard into a super killy HTH unit without completely missing the point of what they're meant to do. Fortunately, what they're meant to do is kill off the important stuff before it can fight back.

sourclams:

Yes, you said that you "run them with Ironclad Drop Pod Support" but that doesn't explain how the Ironclad supports the Sternguard and makes them resistant to an assault. Does the Ironclad stand in front of the Sternguard squad? How does it prevent the enemy from charging the Sternguard and overwhelming them?

I'm not supposing that they magically become a "super killy HTH unit", I'm supposing how you get around the fact that they're a mediocre assault unit by Space Marine standards and will be within assault range of the enemy after they hit the ground shooting.

You run a 5 drop pod list.

You put sternguard in 2 of them.

You put Ironclads in the other 3.

It's become, like, the standard Sternguard list.

20 sternguard landing in one quadrant make anything that could kill 20 marines very dead. And, in the event that you have a land raider with termis in it, the Ironclad is standing there taking a smoke break waiting as counter assault.

Will you lose 6 or 7 marines? Yeah, probably. Then you royally feth him over and mop up. It's a characteristic feature of the Sternguard list.

Okay, let me put it this way, what do you do with your Sternguard when they land? I mean four Combat Squads of Sternguard will make four enemy units dead, but what if your enemy has 5+ units in that corner of the field? What do you do when there is nothing left of the Sternguard for the Dreadnought to help out in a counter-assault?

I'm just curious as to exactly how you "royally feth [your opponent] over". This is, after all, the Tactics forum, and not the Army List forum.

Double-post, mea culpa.

I see no need to spell out even more of this very obvious and effective tactic. If someone other than you asks, I'll elaborate.

sourclams:

I believe the original poster has already asked that question.

Well, Sternguards+Drop Pod are Firefighters. Drop them where you really need firesupport to kill important stuff or soften up MCs.
If you allways follow the point for point scheme you´ll be stucked in the rookie tactics/thinking.
For example:

I have XX Sterns in a Drop Pod and let them deepstrike where it hurts my opponent really hard. He will lose a key unit - 200Pts - and I may lose my Sterns - 300Pts - but in following turns I´m able to stomp him because his key unit is no treat anymore. The 100pts difference - I took just as an example not the real pointcosts - dont hurt me in the end. Because without sacrifice my Sterns his key unit would have shoot me 1,2,3 rnd more and may win him the game.
Two other things to keep in mind: Sterns in a Drop Pod will provide you a mental advantag over your opponent because he knows you them and they could wipe something important out. That leads to the next advantage for you. Your opponent have to rethink his plan and keep in mind, the Sterns are able to crack a key part of his formation.
Leave the point for point thinking and try to develop ways to make the sacrifice worth it for you in the end.
If you can keep them alive be happy if not, try to get the most out of them.
More simple example: As an Ork I use Sluggaz to screen my Nobz/Kanz whatever. I dont care if 20 of 30Sluggaz die as long as my heavy hitters arrive the lines without wounds/damage.
I sacrifice my Sluggaz for a more effective way to deal with my opponents stuff. My Sluggaz wont kill anything so following the point for point system I´m pretty much punked there. But I will win in the end anyway, no matter if 20 or more boys kissed the ground. At least thats the plan. Not that it works 100% of the time but well, it´s an example eh.

DaDok wrote:I have XX Sterns in a Drop Pod and let them deepstrike where it hurts my opponent really hard. He will lose a key unit - 200Pts - and I may lose my Sterns - 300Pts - but in following turns I´m able to stomp him because his key unit is no treat anymore. The 100pts difference - I took just as an example not the real pointcosts - dont hurt me in the end. Because without sacrifice my Sterns his key unit would have shoot me 1,2,3 rnd more and may win him the game.

No, Sternguard aren't a 1:1 unit, they're a 2:1 unit. That's why drop podding them is more or less essential, it allows you to kill 2 [whatever]s. If you're playing them the way you propose, it's better to stick them in a rhino and run them with the main body of your army. Very few things cost as much as 1 Sternguard squad, that's why it's imperative to maximize their combat squad + combi specials advantage.

sourclams wrote:

DaDok wrote:I have XX Sterns in a Drop Pod and let them deepstrike where it hurts my opponent really hard. He will lose a key unit - 200Pts - and I may lose my Sterns - 300Pts - but in following turns I´m able to stomp him because his key unit is no treat anymore. The 100pts difference - I took just as an example not the real pointcosts - dont hurt me in the end. Because without sacrifice my Sterns his key unit would have shoot me 1,2,3 rnd more and may win him the game.

No, Sternguard aren't a 1:1 unit, they're a 2:1 unit. That's why drop podding them is more or less essential, it allows you to kill 2 [whatever]s. If you're playing them the way you propose, it's better to stick them in a rhino and run them with the main body of your army. Very few things cost as much as 1 Sternguard squad, that's why it's imperative to maximize their combat squad + combi specials advantage.

Well, sorry for not clear that
Thought you drop the either as 5men - not that smart - or split them into 2x5 after dropping and kill whatever is needed or can be killed. But yeah, I should have made that more clear.
Anyway, I wouldnt say 2:1. You may want to split into 2x5 to kill some real heavies without beeing locked into cc next turn. Would be another point of view.
Drop, split into 2x5 and try to spread out if possible.
Another combo would be ASMs + Sterns. You could rapid fire sth nasty and go into cc with ASMs right after. That would take care of the cc lockdown you wont find your Sterns into.

Yeah, Jump Marines are a good backup for Sterns.

Great points. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

Oh, I just realized why I got to 350pts for a sternguard. I had them in a rhino with extra armor and the sternguard sgt had a powerfist. I just glanced at my AB list quickly for points and didn't open up the list to see it had a rhino, etc.

How often does everyone use the Vengeance round over say the Hellfire or other rounds?

Would it be reasonable to field them in a 6 man unit with 4 combi-meltas and 2 heavy flamers riding around in a razorback with the lascannon/plasmagun turret? Sure it would be a rather spendy unit but it could take care of just about any threat by itself. Not to mention you could take up to 3 of them.

If you take Kantor to lead them and each unit has a power fist they will become a decent counter assault unit... if you keep them close enough to Kantor so that they can benefit from the +1 attack.

I never thought about breaking them into combat squads when they disembark from their drop pods but it sounds like a solid tactic to me.

G

If you are running them defensively fire their rounds then run another unit in front of them forcing the assault on that unit instead.

If you are running them offensively then prepare to lose the squad to a counterassault. Just make sure you do more then their cost in damage before then.

ASMs plus Stern sounds best to me.
You´ll be able to rapid fire and the ASMs take care of the rest so no counter assault.

I like equipping them with plasma cannons. I am sold on the maxed combi-melta build for units that are gonna be podding in but I'm a big believer in building the unit to fill a role and not using a preset build off the forums in just any army. For me, the Sternguard work best holding down an objective with the Kraken bolts and plasma cannons at range and switching to hellfire rounds and venegance rounds as needed as the enemy closes. I use them to support the advance of the rest of my Army or to hold the key spot in my battle line. All comes down to style but I've used a combination of plasma cannons and bolter fire of the Sternguard to blast apart opposing deep strikers and horde infantry to great effect at the local gaming store.