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They have been hinted at in this campaign.

Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.

ingtaer wrote:
They have been hinted at in this campaign.

Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.

Fair enough. What pledge do you have in mind? (we have already promised to upload a Raiding Party with 1 box of each fantasy type instead of 2 of the same but you're referring to something else, yes?)

To be quiet frank I don't know for sure,
I was perusing your starter armies and was thinking that there should be a pledge that allows both sci-fi and fantasy (two boxes of each and a tank and yetis maybe?), Personally I would love to see that when the next sets come out, if there was an option to get both the sci-fi and fantasy versions of Sisters I would be increasing my pledge straight away. However I would still much prefer to see Forest Goblins...

This might help to get a better picture on what we're working on!

Sisters of Wolves (sci-fi)
https://sketchfab.com/models/f68772287411452393035ecc460fe733

EDIT:
And here's one for the Wolf Wardens (fantasy)

https://sketchfab.com/models/dd2edea597594f1a8630089251b7c2e8

Love the Sketchfab link, thanks for creating that! I've backed and also posted the Kickstarter up on the 40K subreddit. I hope it helps!

Thank you @the_dunner, appreciate that! :-)

ingtaer wrote:
They have been hinted at in this campaign.

Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.

What's "the same value" though?

Once (if) the sci-fi and fantasy nuns are unlocked I could see people wanting a 4-way plastic pledge for all the new HIPS kits. Kind of a no-brainer there.


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 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
This might help to get a better picture on what we're working on!

Sisters of Wolves (sci-fi)
https://sketchfab.com/models/f68772287411452393035ecc460fe733

EDIT:
And here's one for the Wolf Wardens (fantasy)

https://sketchfab.com/models/dd2edea597594f1a8630089251b7c2e8

Are those WIP? Definately a lot of potential there, though some components look odd or disproportionate. Those sci-fi model "hands" aren't final, are they?

Their hands seem to be inside those blocky arm guard things. It through me off a bit as well, considering the resin add on stretch goal lady has actual hands gripping the guns.

I hope more is done with their elbow guards too. They seem very flat, for lack of a better word.

Happy to see this funded! Can't wait to see where we end up!

 Azazelx wrote:

ingtaer wrote:
They have been hinted at in this campaign.

Shieldwolf; it was asked in the comments that someone wished to exchange yetis for plastics and your answer was that's fine, providing its of the same value. So why not allow a mixed pledge? The logistics of that is far easier than exchanging out parts.

What's "the same value" though?

Whatever arbitrary number Shieldwolf assign? Same as normal. All the prices are listed under the add on list.

Congratulations on funding SW and still with two baby bears left (at the time of writing).

If they do introduce the Royal Sampler pledge, will we lose our precious baby bears if we switch to that?

Good morning everyone!

@Azazelx
Everything is Work in Progress, this is the most complex kit we've ever made and there will be plenty of things to try out to see what fits/works best for the final product. Arm guards and elbows have been noted.
@Highlord @ingtaer
Thank you!
@Bob
What's a "Royal Sampler" pledge? Either way the answer to losing the baby bears is a definitive "NO", as long as your backer number is 1-300, you get these as promised.

A pledge with all the different kinds of plastic units, sci fi and fantasy. Some of us would prefer to have a squad from each faction rather than a horde of one.

Any chance for helmeted heads? I would love to see some fully enclosed helmets, especially for the sisters of faith.

@BobtheInquisitor
Ah, I didn't know the term.
1. Yes, we are working on some more as we speak.
2. Yes (mainly due to feedback from the Shieldmaiden Campaign requesting that).

Shieldwolf Update #5 wrote:
...
Also, compared to our previous project freebies get rewarded only once, despite a backer having chosen e.g. two fantasy starter armies. He/she will receive only one Shieldmaiden Casualty_B model and any other goals we unlock.
...

Because they want to do what they can to discourage people from doubling their pledges or combining them to save in shipping. Apparently.

No.
They want to make some money. Bad boys they are.
Miniature kickstarters are almost the only kickstarters where people EXPECT> and DEMAND freebies here and there and everywhere.

Others don't. Shieldwolf is smart to limit the amount of bleed.

You're missing the point entirely.

There have been more than a few Kickstarters where getting 2x or 3x the stretch goal extras has caused me to double or triple my pledge. Saving on postage has been enough motivation to have friends jump on board with my pledges more than a few times.


Replying directly to yourself and not SW (since you made the statement that I'm replying to):

If a KS creator feels that they're not making any (or enough) money on the stretch goal extras, then they shouldn't offer them in the first place. If it's such a dramatic "bleed" of money then they could always pay for the tooling and production themselves and not ask backers to shoulder the risk and financial costs a year or more upfront.

Freebies = money loss. It is not that hard to understand.
Again: miniature kickstarters are a complete strange thing.

I'm atill trying to figure out why the fantasy maidens have twice as many models per box as the scifi maidens per box.

I saw 20 models per box for the Fantasy Maidens, and then felt crushing dissapointment when the scifi version was only 10 models per box.

While no-one should expect anywhere near CMON-levels of freebies (don't expect more than a couple of minis and maybe an extra sprue), CMON has used this strategy to amazing effect in their KS campaigns and it has certainly gotten them a gakload more cash each time they run a campaign. Like any KS creator that wants to remain solvent, the secret is to not give away more than you can safely and comfortably afford not to while maximising the perception of the quality of their offering to backers and potential backers.

To (hopefully) clarify. Let's put it this way:

If a campaign's numbers have been crunched efficiently in advance of it going live, and say, what freebies that they're able to allocate to a $50 or $100 or 200 worth of pledge has been worked out properly, then the "costs" of the freebies up to their projected final of $50k or $100k or whatever should have been worked out, so that the creator is in no danger of overextending themselves or losing money regardless of how much the campaign blows up and/or many backers they have going for $50 or $100 or $200. Can we agree on that?

Because if you're losing money on a pledge level. Any pledge level, then there's a fundamental and serious flaw in the organisation of the campaign. Can we also agree on that?


So...


If they're making enough money (despite freebies) from me pledging $200, then they should still be making enough from me pledging $400 and getting two sets of freebies.

If they're making enough from me pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to me, and they're also making enough from you pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to you that's still $400. and two sets of freebies.

If they're making enough from me pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to me, and they're also making enough from you pledging $200 with freebies and being posted to you then how are they not making enough from you and I combining our orders into one pledge and sending both of those (and freebies for both of us) to the same address because you and I want to save on international shipping?

There are many, many Whales amongst kickstarter backers. Campaign creators should do what they can to entice them. If attracting a double-or-triple backers "costs" them no more than attracting 2 or 3 backers, then why not have both?



Now, SW indicated that it's a logistical issue that caused them issues in their previous KS, but IMO forewarned is forearmed and IMO it's something that can be organised pretty easily with that in mind.

"This guy gets 2x sci-fi gold and 1x fantasy silver add-on packs" isn't so different to "This guy gets 1x sci-fi gold and 1x fantasy silver add-on packs", after all...

 adamsouza wrote:
I'm atill trying to figure out why the fantasy maidens have twice as many models per box as the scifi maidens per box.

I saw 20 models per box for the Fantasy Maidens, and then felt crushing dissapointment when the scifi version was only 10 models per box.

The $35,000 stretch goal rectifies that. Some text further up the thread about the initial decision.

 adamsouza wrote:
I'm atill trying to figure out why the fantasy maidens have twice as many models per box as the scifi maidens per box.

I saw 20 models per box for the Fantasy Maidens, and then felt crushing dissapointment when the scifi version was only 10 models per box.

because reasons.
Apparently.
If I were cynical I'd say it was a terribly ill-conceived plan so they could trumpet this:



However, I don't attribute this to an evil scheme or malice. I think it's simply not seeing the obvious (as with the freebies thing I'm discussing with Ronin above). Can't see the forest for the trees. Too close to the project. Seeing the project from the perspective of a merchant rather than a consumer, Not asking the right people (ie, ME) for constructive feedback beforehand. and instead probably only asking the "fan-friends" and superfans that tend to inhabit the comments long after campaigns conclude - communities which after time tend to be too insular and filled with too many "yes-men" rather than critical thinkers and people with a strong ability to utilise "black-hat" thinking. Again, like myself.



But you know, how many people had your reaction and simply moved on entirely, never to check the campaign again? There's no way to know.





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Probably worth pointing out that if this were most other companies I wouldn't be posting any of this. I'd have just moved on with little interest. I'm posting this mostly because I want to see SW do well. I don't actually need any more models, nor are a few freebies going to make or break my life.

The reason given was that Shieldwolf were funding the Sci-Fi sets themselves and they needed to claw back some margin...
Azazelx, I was surprised that the preview page for this kickstarter where companies ask for and get feedback was open for such a short time (24hrs?) and some issues that have been bought to light could have been sorted then. Along with this wanting to simplify logistics whilst at the same time making them more complicated (allowing chopping and changing of pledge contents on an individual basis whilst not allowing multiple freebies) is just bizarre to me. I would guess that its due to how pledges are managed?

Still, less than $1500 to go before the doubling of sprues in the Sci-Fi box stretch goal is met. Whats next?

Two of the $100 scifi set are a better deal than the $200 scifi set.

Can you double up on tbe $100 pledge level ?

Yep.

ingtaer wrote:
The reason given was that Shieldwolf were funding the Sci-Fi sets themselves and they needed to claw back some margin...

Yeah, but let's be blunt. Even if that was a "reason" it was stupid to go with it given that the sci-fi troops are doubled only $5k after the funded goal. We all know tat once molds are made a shot of a sprue costs very little, and all they did was turn off potential backers who may browse and then not return. 40k is also on fire right now, so all I can do is facepalm as I watch Shieldwolf fly in the face of very obvious logic over and over (see below).

Azazelx, I was surprised that the preview page for this kickstarter where companies ask for and get feedback was open for such a short time (24hrs?) and some issues that have been bought to light could have been sorted then.

Agreed. As I said earlier, the only reason I even knew the campaign was live was because I happened to see your post at about 10:30 while having a quick browse before bed. I had no idea that the campaign had been live for almost 24 hours at that point since they didn't think to notify backers of previous campaigns until I pointed it out to them both here and on the updates. Certainly no chance to offer pre-campaign feedback since I work and don't check their previous KS comment sections. Another facepalm.

Along with this wanting to simplify logistics whilst at the same time making them more complicated (allowing chopping and changing of pledge contents on an individual basis whilst not allowing multiple freebies) is just bizarre to me. I would guess that its due to how pledges are managed?

Again, you're completely correct that it flies in the face of all logic. There's a lot that suggests to me that they weren't (aren't) completely organised to the extent that they should be. I'd suggest that they should start a checklist of all of this stuff that's coming up as it comes up so it doesn't get forgotten before the next inevitable campaign. Otherwise there's a very strong chance that many of these issues and their solutions will be forgotten in the frenzied month of this campaign and potentially come up again in the next.

Still, less than $1500 to go before the doubling of sprues in the Sci-Fi box stretch goal is met. Whats next?

Based on this and the previous campaigns, we'll have a number of "padding" goals for things like paid-add-on resins and the odd free figure or component until they get within reach of the next HIPS kit. And if they lead with fantasy lady-paladins instead of HIPS not-Sisters of Battle you may as well just fill the rest of the thread with Picard facepalms. Then repeat if it gets that far and follow with the chibi tanks in plastic.

Yes Angelos - change those plans right now and lead the next HIPS set with the sci-fi Nun infantry in kits of 20 (not 10!) models!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:
Two of the $100 scifi set are a better deal than the $200 scifi set.

Now that you point it out, I've looked at it more carefully, and you are correct. Unless you value a $15 not-razorback turret as equal to a box of 10(20) HIPS models. This campaign really is suffering from a lack of organisation and proofreading. I know Angelos has a successful pharmacy business which is how he managed to found Shieldwolf, so he's no fool, nor is he simply a gamer with a product idea but no business sense. It feels rushed.

 Azazelx wrote:

Yeah, but let's be blunt. Even if that was a "reason" it was stupid to go with it given that the sci-fi troops are doubled only $5k after the funded goal. We all know tat once molds are made a shot of a sprue costs very little, and all they did was turn off potential backers who may browse and then not return.

That's true, I confess and reveal (although I naturally don't have to but I don't mind) it was initially the $40K SG, I pulled it back $5K earlier to stop the concerns about getting "less" value than the fantasy counterparts. Even if I take the absolute worst case scenario that the project it will end around the $35-36,000 (which with 18 days to go I doubt, but certainly prepared for it), that is still several tenths of thousands of euros I will not have to commit in order to bring the other kits to production. I can obviously live with that and still reward more the people who placed their trust in my company.

 Azazelx wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Two of the $100 scifi set are a better deal than the $200 scifi set.

Now that you point it out, I've looked at it more carefully, and you are correct. Unless you value a $15 not-razorback turret as equal to a box of 10(20) HIPS models. This campaign really is suffering from a lack of organisation and proofreading. I know Angelos has a successful pharmacy business which is how he managed to found Shieldwolf, so he's no fool, nor is he simply a gamer with a product idea but no business sense. It feels rushed.

This is about bussiness sense as you point out, so it is purely about numbers. The $15 turret production-wise has the same (give or take) manufacturing cost with the 20 HIPS models ($25). From my logistics point of view, the pledge will bring equal profit. So while the pledge levels are not exactly 100% super-balanced (some have a different profit margin than others but not too much, just like all miniatures retail sales, not only by Shieldwolf), the numbers have been calculated bearing in mind the worst case scenarios (i.e. if literally everyone pledged for the lowest possible profit-making pledge level). I hope this clarifies things, and rest assured I still value a lot your advice -perhaps more than you think.

Angelos.

Nice to hear Angelos, even nicer for you to sign your name! I have wondered in the past who was typing as you use one login. I would also like to thank you personally for being so responsive, I am sure that at times it will tough for you to read/react to comments but you always respond professionally and the fact that you have actively been changing things earns massive respect from me.

However I am confused now about how the tanks work, do they come with weapons as standard and the option to change the configuration for a price? I assumed it was the case of what you see is what you get but the add-ons and your comment have me confused.

Also I have raised my pledge in hopes of sisters, any chance of a hint as to when they drop and if the pledges will be similar to the format laid out so far?

@Ingtaer
Dimitrios is the one usually posting, I drop by to read what he (and members of this forum) wrote. At this moment he's in our HQ (he was earlier here) and I'm in my pharmacy, so I don't exactly have the same amount of time to be on this like the others on my Team.
The tanks are two types; transport and combat. Some come with options, others do not. If someone wants to use magnets or simply prefers to use one type over another that's up to him. Some options will be add-ons only (e.g. the missile launcher is not available in any of Sisters of Wolves pledges, it is however available in one of the pledges for the Sisters of Faith, you will see it named as 'the Preacher').
The pledges will be separate and in the same format, I can't tell you when they'll show up yet as I don't know how next week's funding will go, it all depends on how badly people are interested in these or not. If you've seen the Pledge Level Layout we have uploaded on flickr, when we reach the Paladins SG there will be two instead of the one you see now; one for fantasy and one for sci-fi. I think I answered everything.

I am primarily interested in the Sisters of Faith, the vehicles and the fantasy sisters.

Looking forward to seeing some more info on the Sisters of Faith.!!!

 Mr Morden wrote:
I am primarily interested in the Sisters of Faith, the vehicles and the fantasy sisters.

Looking forward to seeing some more info on the Sisters of Faith.!!!

I wonder if leading with not-SoB would have been a stronger play than female Space Wolves.