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Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Roughriders aren't bad for only a little more points.

CplPunishment wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Why Multilasers?

If nothing else, Heavy Bolters are cheaper and better.

 vipoid wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Why Multilasers?

If nothing else, Heavy Bolters are cheaper and better.

Heavy bolters aren't available for sentinels, but autocannons are if you want to be annoying at any range.

How points efficient are Baneblades these days?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
How points efficient are Baneblades these days?

It varies based on which specific target you're talking about and which specific variant you're talking about, but as a general rule they are considerably better than their 7th edition couterparts point-for-point. They were awful in 7th though so I would conclude with merely 'adequate'.

There are a handful that are generally regarded as excellent. People talk highly about the Shadowsword. I personally love the Stormlord.

The actual Baneblade itself does not impress me much. I guess the main Baneblade cannon does a reasonable amount of damage, but you're paying a lot because of the demolisher cannon which isn't bringing a whole lot to the party nowadays.

 daedalus wrote:
There are a handful that are generally regarded as excellent. People talk highly about the Shadowsword. I personally love the Stormlord.

The actual Baneblade itself does not impress me much. I guess the main Baneblade cannon does a reasonable amount of damage, but you're paying a lot because of the demolisher cannon which isn't bringing a whole lot to the party nowadays.

This is true, though I have a similar opinion of the Shadowsword. Everyone raves about it until they play my Foot SOB, at which point it's essentially just a really expensive Leman Russ. I actually think the regular Baneblade is better than the Shadowsword against most targets except the Shadowsword's preferred targets, though you do have to include the math for the Demolisher Cannon which means you have to be within 24".

That said, Baneblades don't nearly mind being within 24" as much as they used to. Being in melee with a horde of small units that completely encircle it is it's preferred lifestyle if it's sitting with the objective under the center of it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
There are a handful that are generally regarded as excellent. People talk highly about the Shadowsword. I personally love the Stormlord.

The actual Baneblade itself does not impress me much. I guess the main Baneblade cannon does a reasonable amount of damage, but you're paying a lot because of the demolisher cannon which isn't bringing a whole lot to the party nowadays.

This is true, though I have a similar opinion of the Shadowsword. Everyone raves about it until they play my Foot SOB, at which point it's essentially just a really expensive Leman Russ. I actually think the regular Baneblade is better than the Shadowsword against most targets except the Shadowsword's preferred targets, though you do have to include the math for the Demolisher Cannon which means you have to be within 24".

That said, Baneblades don't nearly mind being within 24" as much as they used to. Being in melee with a horde of small units that completely encircle it is it's preferred lifestyle if it's sitting with the objective under the center of it.

A pretty good summary, but the Shadowsword is worth it in high-point games where your opponent is liable to take something big.

CplPunishment wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
There are a handful that are generally regarded as excellent. People talk highly about the Shadowsword. I personally love the Stormlord.

The actual Baneblade itself does not impress me much. I guess the main Baneblade cannon does a reasonable amount of damage, but you're paying a lot because of the demolisher cannon which isn't bringing a whole lot to the party nowadays.

This is true, though I have a similar opinion of the Shadowsword. Everyone raves about it until they play my Foot SOB, at which point it's essentially just a really expensive Leman Russ. I actually think the regular Baneblade is better than the Shadowsword against most targets except the Shadowsword's preferred targets, though you do have to include the math for the Demolisher Cannon which means you have to be within 24".

That said, Baneblades don't nearly mind being within 24" as much as they used to. Being in melee with a horde of small units that completely encircle it is it's preferred lifestyle if it's sitting with the objective under the center of it.

A pretty good summary, but the Shadowsword is worth it in high-point games where your opponent is liable to take something big.

I mean I can play my foot SOB up to 2500 and have only 1 Immolator :3

Cheers guys.

So my heretic Banblade might get some play

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
There are a handful that are generally regarded as excellent. People talk highly about the Shadowsword. I personally love the Stormlord.

The actual Baneblade itself does not impress me much. I guess the main Baneblade cannon does a reasonable amount of damage, but you're paying a lot because of the demolisher cannon which isn't bringing a whole lot to the party nowadays.

This is true, though I have a similar opinion of the Shadowsword. Everyone raves about it until they play my Foot SOB, at which point it's essentially just a really expensive Leman Russ. I actually think the regular Baneblade is better than the Shadowsword against most targets except the Shadowsword's preferred targets, though you do have to include the math for the Demolisher Cannon which means you have to be within 24".

That said, Baneblades don't nearly mind being within 24" as much as they used to. Being in melee with a horde of small units that completely encircle it is it's preferred lifestyle if it's sitting with the objective under the center of it.

A pretty good summary, but the Shadowsword is worth it in high-point games where your opponent is liable to take something big.

I mean I can play my foot SOB up to 2500 and have only 1 Immolator :3

Fair enough, but how likely is somebody likely to come across somebody with a force comparable to yours? It is far more likely you will run across at least one other titanic unit in a game over 2000 points.

I've played maybe one game in which there weren't 4+ vehicles. Might be my meta.

Generally theres been a healthy mix.

It all comes down to local meta. If people like Titans, Knights and Superheavies, T10 fortresses and giant monsters, bring that Shadowsword! You probably won't need it under 2k points (then again...), but you will be glad you brought it in bigger games.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 argonak wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Asking for a friend, but which do you guys believe would add more impact to a list, in a vacuum, all else being equal...

1. 1 Tempestor Prime with a Plasma Scion Command Squad

or

2. Taking Yarrick to hang out in back and give his re-roll 1's to a group of three Earth-Shakers, and three Quad Heavy Mortars?

Yarrick is too big of an investment just for rerolling 1s to hit. Take Harker instead. Yarrick does so much more, and you pay for it. That saves you 80 points.

Who is Harker? Maybe we're being dense, but we can't find him in either the Index or the FW Index.

EDIT: NVM. We thought you were talking about HQs. Found him in the Elites. Thanks!

As he's actually in the Catachan section of the book, I'm curious as to how you found him in the Elites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Why Multilasers?

If nothing else, Heavy Bolters are cheaper and better.

If they could take them, they'd probably be a great choice. Mutlilaser needs to be changed to assault 3 instead of heavy 3. Or maybe rapid fire 2. Right now they're just terrible.

So for now I'm on the side that says either lascannons or heavy flamers. Autocannons aren't cheap enough to bother with, missile launchers are lame, and multilasers are just terrible.

CplPunishment wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Asking for a friend, but which do you guys believe would add more impact to a list, in a vacuum, all else being equal...

1. 1 Tempestor Prime with a Plasma Scion Command Squad

or

2. Taking Yarrick to hang out in back and give his re-roll 1's to a group of three Earth-Shakers, and three Quad Heavy Mortars?

We'd have to see the rest of his list to see what needs beefing. It sounds like he's got a decent Artillery section, but how many Counter-attack/Objective-grabbing units like scions does he already have?

Harker is cheaper than Commissar Yarrick and gives a reroll 1s to hit effect, but only works if you are using the CATACHAN keyword.

Yarrick is not to be underestimated though...but he really needs to be in combat. I've had him savage Celestine and a pile of Deathcults quite badly with his D3 damage and constant revivals. My opponent and I were shocked that old man Yarrick just kept getting back up and killing more. With a command point re-roll he is extremely survivable and with an Astropath to buff he has a 3++. If you want re-rolls of one for Artillery use Harker for sure because your Artillery is unlikely to see combat. However if you want re-rolls for troops who will likely see close combat I would definitely take Yarrick + Astropath.

 argonak wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Why Multilasers?

If nothing else, Heavy Bolters are cheaper and better.

If they could take them, they'd probably be a great choice. Mutlilaser needs to be changed to assault 3 instead of heavy 3. Or maybe rapid fire 2. Right now they're just terrible.

So for now I'm on the side that says either lascannons or heavy flamers. Autocannons aren't cheap enough to bother with, missile launchers are lame, and multilasers are just terrible.

You are talking about investing 51-60 points worth of weapons into 3 T5 walkers with 4+ saves. The multilaser is the optimal choice because it saves points that are better used elsewhere. The whole point of a multilaser sentinel is a cheap FA unit to fill out a brigade and get 9CP. Any effect it has on the tabletop beyond its scout move is incidental--a cherry on top.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Asking for a friend, but which do you guys believe would add more impact to a list, in a vacuum, all else being equal...

1. 1 Tempestor Prime with a Plasma Scion Command Squad

or

2. Taking Yarrick to hang out in back and give his re-roll 1's to a group of three Earth-Shakers, and three Quad Heavy Mortars?

We'd have to see the rest of his list to see what needs beefing. It sounds like he's got a decent Artillery section, but how many Counter-attack/Objective-grabbing units like scions does he already have?

Harker is cheaper than Commissar Yarrick and gives a reroll 1s to hit effect, but only works if you are using the CATACHAN keyword.

Yarrick is not to be underestimated though...but he really needs to be in combat. I've had him savage Celestine and a pile of Deathcults quite badly with his D3 damage and constant revivals. My opponent and I were shocked that old man Yarrick just kept getting back up and killing more. With a command point re-roll he is extremely survivable and with an Astropath to buff he has a 3++. If you want re-rolls of one for Artillery use Harker for sure because your Artillery is unlikely to see combat. However if you want re-rolls for troops who will likely see close combat I would definitely take Yarrick + Astropath.

I need to buy Yarrick and a couple astropaths so they can roll around with Straken and a Ministorum Priest.

CplPunishment wrote:

 argonak wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Why Multilasers?

If nothing else, Heavy Bolters are cheaper and better.

If they could take them, they'd probably be a great choice. Mutlilaser needs to be changed to assault 3 instead of heavy 3. Or maybe rapid fire 2. Right now they're just terrible.

So for now I'm on the side that says either lascannons or heavy flamers. Autocannons aren't cheap enough to bother with, missile launchers are lame, and multilasers are just terrible.

You are talking about investing 51-60 points worth of weapons into 3 T5 walkers with 4+ saves. The multilaser is the optimal choice because it saves points that are better used elsewhere. The whole point of a multilaser sentinel is a cheap FA unit to fill out a brigade and get 9CP. Any effect it has on the tabletop beyond its scout move is incidental--a cherry on top.

No, I'm talking about 7 to 10 per sentinel, because you're required to pay at least 10 just to get out the door. I don't mind paying 21 to 30 points on weapons that might actually do something rather than the multilaser which is rarely going to do anything. 6 S no AP D1 just doesn't work for me. Marines just laugh it off.

Each scout sentinel is T5, 6 wounds, with a 4+ save, that's decently tough. They don't lose anything from damage either. They seem to me a decent heavy weapon platform, especially if you can get them into some kind of cover with your scout move. I agree their main function is area denial, but if that's all you're doing with them, they're a pretty big point sink just for that. In my experience in 8th, heavy flamer has done ok work because my opponent usually advances into range anyway, if not charging the sentinel itself. So a sentinel is reasonably likely to get two shots off. Sure sometimes he just shoots it dead, but if he wasn't shooting the sentinel he'd be shooting something else. Lascannons are more impressive or embarrassing whiffs, but they hit so hard its almost always worth it when they do hit. One Armored Sentinel nailed a Daemon Prince between the eyes for me a couple weeks ago.

They're not game winners, but I think a little bit of investment in them can pay off. I consider everything in my army expendable, and just try to make what is alive on the table do work. Having units that I know won't do anything but stand there just isn't very appealing to me.

 argonak wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

 argonak wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I want to try for a Brigade, what are the best FA choices to fill those out? Minimum with Sentinels or go for something else?

3 multilaser sentinels are hard to beat if you are looking to save points. Scout them ahead to deny deepstrike zones. Don't worry about them dying.

Why Multilasers?

If nothing else, Heavy Bolters are cheaper and better.

If they could take them, they'd probably be a great choice. Mutlilaser needs to be changed to assault 3 instead of heavy 3. Or maybe rapid fire 2. Right now they're just terrible.

So for now I'm on the side that says either lascannons or heavy flamers. Autocannons aren't cheap enough to bother with, missile launchers are lame, and multilasers are just terrible.

You are talking about investing 51-60 points worth of weapons into 3 T5 walkers with 4+ saves. The multilaser is the optimal choice because it saves points that are better used elsewhere. The whole point of a multilaser sentinel is a cheap FA unit to fill out a brigade and get 9CP. Any effect it has on the tabletop beyond its scout move is incidental--a cherry on top.

No, I'm talking about 7 to 10 per sentinel, because you're required to pay at least 10 just to get out the door. I don't mind paying 21 to 30 points on weapons that might actually do something rather than the multilaser which is rarely going to do anything. 6 S no AP D1 just doesn't work for me. Marines just laugh it off.

Each scout sentinel is T5, 6 wounds, with a 4+ save, that's decently tough. They don't lose anything from damage either. They seem to me a decent heavy weapon platform, especially if you can get them into some kind of cover with your scout move. I agree their main function is area denial, but if that's all you're doing with them, they're a pretty big point sink just for that. In my experience in 8th, heavy flamer has done ok work because my opponent usually advances into range anyway, if not charging the sentinel itself. So a sentinel is reasonably likely to get two shots off. Sure sometimes he just shoots it dead, but if he wasn't shooting the sentinel he'd be shooting something else. Lascannons are more impressive or embarrassing whiffs, but they hit so hard its almost always worth it when they do hit. One Armored Sentinel nailed a Daemon Prince between the eyes for me a couple weeks ago.

They're not game winners, but I think a little bit of investment in them can pay off. I consider everything in my army expendable, and just try to make what is alive on the table do work. Having units that I know won't do anything but stand there just isn't very appealing to me.

The Flamer doesn't sound half bad, now that you mention it. The Lascannon is hilariously unreliable like you said. In my experience though, Multilasers are fine, if overpriced. They aren't amazing by any standards, but are acceptable if those 21-30 extra points are better used elsewhere (that's 3-4 plasma guns for perspective).

Sentinels. Bring flamers or powerlifters (If you want things for the heavy support slot).

Watch them scount 9. Move 9. Then charge somebodies tank.

CplPunishment wrote:


The Flamer doesn't sound half bad, now that you mention it. The Lascannon is hilariously unreliable like you said. In my experience though, Multilasers are fine, if overpriced. They aren't amazing by any standards, but are acceptable if those 21-30 extra points are better used elsewhere (that's 3-4 plasma guns for perspective).

I also usually just throw a hunter killer missile on there too. They're only 5 points and as long as the sentinel survies one turn, you'll get your points back. And a krak missile can kill a lot more than 5 points worth!

 Otto von Bludd wrote:

Yarrick is not to be underestimated though...but he really needs to be in combat. I've had him savage Celestine and a pile of Deathcults quite badly with his D3 damage and constant revivals. My opponent and I were shocked that old man Yarrick just kept getting back up and killing more. With a command point re-roll he is extremely survivable and with an Astropath to buff he has a 3++. If you want re-rolls of one for Artillery use Harker for sure because your Artillery is unlikely to see combat. However if you want re-rolls for troops who will likely see close combat I would definitely take Yarrick + Astropath.

Regarding Yarrick, how do you play his Iron Will ability?

If he takes 3 damage from a Lascannon and only has 1 wound left, do you need to roll Iron Will 3 times or just once?

 vipoid wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:

Yarrick is not to be underestimated though...but he really needs to be in combat. I've had him savage Celestine and a pile of Deathcults quite badly with his D3 damage and constant revivals. My opponent and I were shocked that old man Yarrick just kept getting back up and killing more. With a command point re-roll he is extremely survivable and with an Astropath to buff he has a 3++. If you want re-rolls of one for Artillery use Harker for sure because your Artillery is unlikely to see combat. However if you want re-rolls for troops who will likely see close combat I would definitely take Yarrick + Astropath.

Regarding Yarrick, how do you play his Iron Will ability?

If he takes 3 damage from a Lascannon and only has 1 wound left, do you need to roll Iron Will 3 times or just once?

Just to add to this. When you take multiple wounds, do those wounds spill over when he loses his last wound or do they disappear?

Say he takes 4 wounds from some marine fire, but he loses his last wound on the 1st shot, do you have to roll Iron Will for the other 3 wounds after saving the first?

Since we're asking, what about Mortal Wounds?

If Yarrick was on his last wound and took 3 Mortal Wounds, would the remaining 2 spill over to the rest of his squad (after which he'd make his Iron Will roll), or would he have to roll Iron Will for each Mortal Wound and only if he died would they spill over to his squad?

1. Yarrick would roll it each time he loses his last wound. Think of it as FNP 3+ against his last wound. So Yarrick has 2 wounds left and fails a save vs a krak Missile. D6 damage. Opponent rolls a 4. Yarrick loses one wound, then his last wound. Rolls a 3+, makes it. The next wound then goes to him. Rolls a 3+ and makes it again. Final wound is allocated, he rolls a 3+ and fails it, and dies. You could easily know that he will have to roll 3 dice to survive and roll all 3 at the same time.

2. Yarrick has no squad so if he takes multiple mortal wounds they will all go on him.

 jifel wrote:
1. Yarrick would roll it each time he loses his last wound. Think of it as FNP 3+ against his last wound. So Yarrick has 2 wounds left and fails a save vs a krak Missile. D6 damage. Opponent rolls a 4. Yarrick loses one wound, then his last wound. Rolls a 3+, makes it. The next wound then goes to him. Rolls a 3+ and makes it again. Final wound is allocated, he rolls a 3+ and fails it, and dies. You could easily know that he will have to roll 3 dice to survive and roll all 3 at the same time.

2. Yarrick has no squad so if he takes multiple mortal wounds they will all go on him.

So if he's also my warlord, would I be rolling for 6's to ignore the damage after failing the 3+ or before rolling the 3+?

So the wound pool on him doesn't go away even though he technically loses his last wound before getting it back?

Yes he could also get a 6+ on those lost wounds. I believe you would roll a 6+ then a 3+. And you only stop allocating wounds to a model when it is removed as a casualty. If Yarrick manages to last longer than expected you just keep allocating wounds to him.

I think it needs to be FAQd. It could easily go either way! I don't think they updated the rules for him with weapons capable of dealing D6 damage in mind!

Fully agree it's not clear and I'd love to see an FAQ on it.

It's just that the way they worded it it sounds like he does lose his last wound, but then gets a chance to bring it back.