Switch Theme:

Auto bailout announced  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122969367595121563.html

By JOHN D. MCKINNON
The White House announced a $17.4 billion rescue package for the troubled Detroit auto makers that allows them to avoid bankruptcy and leaves many of the big decisions for the incoming Obama administration.

View Full Image

Reuters
President George W. Bush comments on loans to troubled Detroit auto maker on Friday morning.
In a statement, President George W. Bush said the administration decided against forcing a bankruptcy to compel cost-cutting, in order to avoid the risk that consumers would desert one or more of the companies and touch off an industry collapse, deepening the current economic downturn.

"In the midst of a financial crisis...allowing the U.S. auto industry to collapse is not a responsible course of action," Mr. Bush said.

The deal would extend $13.4 billion in loans to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC in December and January, with another $4 billion likely available in February. It also would provide the government with non-voting warrants, although the exact amount was unclear immediately.

The deal is contingent on the companies' showing that they're financially viable by March 31. If they're not financially viable, the loans will be called and all funds must be returned, officials said.

The deal generally tracks key provisions of the bailout legislation that nearly passed Congress earlier this month. But it is relatively lenient in allowing the companies to show their viability. It defines viability as having a positive net present value -- a way of gauging the companies' worth, taking into account all their future obligations.

Notably, it provides significant flexibility to the companies in showing their viability. It sets out targets for the companies to hit in determining their financial health, such as reducing debt and current cash payments for future health care obligations.



One potential move that could help the companies achieve some savings: the companies will be required to reach new agreements with major stakeholders, including dealers and suppliers, by March 31.

Determining viability apparently will be up to the Obama administration. The agreement designates a person to oversee the government's effort, although officials stopped short of referring to that as a "car czar." For the outgoing Bush administration, that person will be Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. President-elect Barack Obama will choose his own point person later.

Previously, the Bush administration planned to coordinate with the Obama camp on selection of a car czar who would continue to serve.

Overall, the deal appeared to represent a modest step in the administration's efforts to put the auto makers on a long-term path to viability. By forsaking a trip to bankruptcy court, the White House gave up its most powerful weapon to extract concessions from the companies and their workers, suppliers, dealers and creditors.

But it likely will achieve what officials recognized as a more important -- and perhaps conflicting -- goal: preventing a collapse of one of the country's most important industries, at a time of broad economic weakness.

In an appearance on Thursday, Mr. Bush appeared to allude to the conundrum: "I think under normal circumstances, no question the bankruptcy court is the best way to sort through credit and debt and restructuring," he said. "These aren't normal circumstances, that's the problem."

The administration was particularly worried about what it termed a "disorderly" collapse of the industry.

"We lost 533,000 jobs last month," Mr. Bush said. "What would another million jobs lost do to the economy? What would that do to the psychology in markets? What would that do -- how would that affect the working people? And so as you can tell, we're all in, in this administration. And if need be, we'll be in for more."

—The Associated Press contributed to this article.
Write to John D. McKinnon at john.mckinnon@wsj.com

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Does anyone care about this? I mean, come on, what I want the AP to cover is how much Guy Richie gets in his divorce/freedom from Madonna. That's the important news!

On principal, I oppose government bailouts. I don't see how the American auto industry is going to stay afloat. Hondas are built in my backyard (nearly so), are a better car (I won't ever buy a Dodge again after the crappy engine they put in the 2001 Intrepid and refuse to admit a mistake), and are generally less expensive. And our mini-van was obviously geared for families with little kids. We own two Hondas, and the next car we buy, will probably be another Honda.

What's crippling the auto industry is what crippled a lot of American businesses. Pension plans when life expectancy has dramatically increased. It's lot less expesive to let someone retire at 55 when the life expectancy is 60. It's a lot more expensive when people are living well into their 70's.

And I don't fault the retiree. They earned that pension under their contract. They should have it, and they counted on it for retirement. But, they need to realize that if the company goes under, their pension may go away.

I would have rather seen the US government take over the pension/retiree health care program than a bailout loan, even though it would cost the taxpayer more.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






In Britain, Penions are worked slightly differently in some cases.

For example, I can arrange a Pension through work, but it is not tied to work. Instead, I put X amount in, and up to a limit, work matches that monthly contribution.

Doesn't stop the Pension going away, but it doesn't cripple it should work go away!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





In the US, that's a 401k. The money is 'yours' and the company can't get at it. A pension, in the US, is money that the company has to pay out. Now, good companies set up pension plans to work off investments, so they pay for themselves. But, especially in years where the stock market drops, the company may have to put money into the pension plan to prop it up.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







dietrich wrote:

I would have rather seen the US government take over the pension/retiree health care program than a bailout loan, even though it would cost the taxpayer more.


This probably would have worked better overall, except it would be much harder to
pull off.

Of course, they thought that giving the banks money would have opened up credit...

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

My 401k has been sucking bad lately. I'm almost tempted to take it all and dump it in a regular savings account and I'll just add to it myself

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Necros wrote:My 401k has been sucking bad lately. I'm almost tempted to take it all and dump it in a regular savings account and I'll just add to it myself


It's well worth holding on to it if you ask me. After any recession and drop in stocks, some big players wind up dead in the water. Sucks when your stocks are involved, sure. But when things start to rise again, the people in the know tend to replace the dead companies with up and coming new ones, investment wise, which soon sends the stocks rocketing up.

People pulling money out of the stocks just makes things worse, and for longer.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

dietrich wrote:In the US, that's a 401k. The money is 'yours' and the company can't get at it. A pension, in the US, is money that the company has to pay out. Now, good companies set up pension plans to work off investments, so they pay for themselves. But, especially in years where the stock market drops, the company may have to put money into the pension plan to prop it up.


But if the money is "yours" as you say how come that in some cases, Bearn Stearns I think, the company used that fund as a collateral? Or are you talking about a different pension fund?

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Indiana

Well, it's my taxes, so at least its going to a good cause (union auto workers still get first day of hunting season off and paid!)



​ ​​ ​​ ​​ 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Miguelsan wrote:
dietrich wrote:In the US, that's a 401k. The money is 'yours' and the company can't get at it. A pension, in the US, is money that the company has to pay out. Now, good companies set up pension plans to work off investments, so they pay for themselves. But, especially in years where the stock market drops, the company may have to put money into the pension plan to prop it up.


But if the money is "yours" as you say how come that in some cases, Bearn Stearns I think, the company used that fund as a collateral? Or are you talking about a different pension fund?

M.


In the UK there is another kind of pension scheme called "final salary".

In this kind of scheme the company invests money in an investment scheme and when you retire, an annuity is bought for you out of the funds, proprtional to your final salary. (This is why company directors traditionally received huge pay increases just before retirement.) Technically the money belongs to the company not the eventual retirees.

Various companies have either gone broke, or sucked up the retirement funds while staying afloat. The most egregious UK example was the Mirror Group scandal.

The funds of large companies can reach epic proportions.

British Airways has been described as a pension fund with a small airline attached. Its pension fund is billions of pounds.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

Nice to know that your retirement fund can go down the drain if your company falls or is bought by a corporate raider that is eyeing said pension fund.

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

That is why the money purchase schemes are better.

The scheme at my company is particularly generous. If I put in 5% of my salary, the company adds another 10%. And it goes into my personal, portable fund.

The stock market can still tank and mess up all your plans, though. That is why it is important to have your pension in a spread of different kinds of investments.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







And if you live in Illinois, you can invest in your governor and get a job!

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: