Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What would you cut here? I'm trying to build something like a competitive
list (Without changing armies thank you very much). I'm aiming for a build that
can keep it's troops on the table and I'm hoping between Kin-Eater, Laurels and
bellowers all around that I can pull it off. To get down to a 2,000 point list
I was considering dropping the hell-heart and a single unit of Iron-Guts, that takes
me down to 1999-which is perfect, but I was wondering if you guys had better idea?

I was hoping to keep 4 units of Iron-guts so my characters could all be inside strong
units. I'm not entirely sold on the hell-heart anyway, so it's not much of a loss in
my eyes. If I ditch a unit of Iron-guts, I still have 3-one for each butcher
(It's my understanding that the butcher will benefit from the increased leadership of
the unit, is that correct?), but I'm left without an obvious home for my tyrant, I'm
considering throwing all six bulls into one unit-is that really a viable strategy? If so,
What would you spend the extra points on? (Heavy armor and a luck-gnoblar is the obvious choice-
taking me to 2,000 exactly.).

Thanks in advance for your input ;-)

-Characters-815
Tyrant; Tenderizer, Kin-Eater, Fistful of Laurels. (Luck-gnoblar, Heavy armor?)
Butcher; Bang Stick, Dispel Scroll
Butcher; Dispel Scroll
Butcher; Hell-Heart?

-Core-998
3(6?)xBulls; Bellower, Xtra-Hand Weapon.
3(0?)xBulls; Bellower, Xtra-Hand Weapon.
3xIron-Guts; Bellower.
3xIron-Guts; Bellower.
3xIron-Guts; Bellower.
3(0?)xIron-Guts; Bellower.
20xGnoblar Fighters;
20xGnoblar Fighters;
8xGnoblar Trappers;

-Special-240
2xLead Belchers; Bellower
2xLead Belchers; Bellower

-Rare-150
Gorger;
Gorger;

I hate to spam, but is the list really so boring that no one has anything to contribute? Have I broke etiquette somehow? If so I apologize, but I really would like some advice-No matter where else I go to learn about this game you guys have the most competitive advice, so if you've got something to add by all means please do.

The fantasy forums have a lower post rate.

There has been some lively debate on OK recently, try finding that thread for some interesting stuff.

I've found the best way to keep your guys on the table is to kill the enemy. Then they can't hurt you and cause panic! Lol not very useful advice. If you are having morale issues try out a BSB of some sort, running a death star unit with jade lion or fist full of laurels. It looks like you are spending quite a bit on musicians on 3 man units. This i really don't do that often with MSU. Because each unit is less important, it doesn't matter as much if it runs.

Well thanks for that, I'll take any excuse to drop music from the iron-guts. BSB eh? I haven't actually given much thought to that guy because of how strong butchers seem-but I'm willing to give it a shot, seems like I may have some extra points hanging around then-what would you do with em?

I'd say, and I'm sure I'll be the only one to say, but drop a Gorger and Butcher, give yourself a slave giant, and use the rest of your points for whatever

Don't drop any Butchers. I repeat

DO

NOT

DROP

ANY

BUTCHERS

Ogres need there magic. NEED IT! It is so good you want to make sure you can nickle and dime your opponents dispel dice and dispel scrolls and still get your spells off. When you are running MSU w/ Ogres, I haven't done MSU but this what I have heard and seen be effective, you need your magic more than when you run 2 solid block of Ironguts. You want to spread your magic out and bait your opponent into charges that you will flee and than counter charge.

As for the musicians I would hesitate to drop them to be honest. If you are going to be fleeing from charges, I'd personally want that +1 to rally. Every point helps....the last you want is to flee a charge and actually run for another turn. It is a lot of points so play around w/ it. I would recommend dropping them from the Lead Belchers because they are there to protect your flanks and chase fast cav away.

Gorgers I am iffy on w/ out Skragg. If they both don't appear on the same turn, and your fighting anything w/ decent shooting, pop goes the gorger. Might I suggest Yheetes? Great family fun for everyone w/ them racing around the board, ignoring terrain and threatening flanks. Just some thoughts

2nd unit of Bulls? Drop em. 1 is all you are required to take...unless your set on em.

Until they give my slavegiant leadership 10, or give him stubborn back-or frenzy or do SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make him better I won't be taking him.
I can't seem to justify yhetti's-they have the stat line of a bull with a bit more speed and cost a hell of a lot more.
I can drop that second unit of bulls-no problem there.
the first, and the 2 units of belchers have to keep bellowers-bait needs music right?
Now gorgers-I could see losing, I really like maneaters-but again, very expensive. I've seen people run them in units of 3, 2 with cathayan longswords and 1 with a great-weapon and that seems pretty solid to me.
I could never let myself run anything close to a deathstar unit-not in this army or any other, at best its a point sink and it isn't fun-at worst it's broken and even more un-fun.
If scraplaunchers didn't explode from a strong hit-I'd probably be consdiering one-as it is they seem like a liabillity, has anyone had a decent experience with them?
I have some family stuff to get to at the moment, but I'll post a revised list in a few hours. Thanks again for all the help, it's exactly this kind of advice that I come to dakka for.

I don't know how much I would consider the Lead Belchers bait to be honest. Your bait are your Bulls or 1 unit of Iron Guts....IB are just there, I feel, to chase off flyers and/or hit Fast Cav.

The Maneaters I've never been sold on myself. That is my personal opinion and I have simply never used them. And I couldn't agree w/ you more about the Slave Giant. Not having a higher leadership, or stubborn, means he is next to useless

The Scraplauncher is great fun and is a nice addition to your army. Can somewhat force people to want to close in w/ your army due to KB templates being dropped on them.

One last thing. As for the Yheetis. You have to look at them beyond the basic stat line. Yes they are somewhat close to bulls BUT Extremely high movement and the ability to ignore all terrain PLUS bonuses(or negatives depending on how you look at in) in close combat and magical attacks. All of those things make them so amazing. Want to freak a opponent out or draw attention away from something....line up your Yheetes wherever there is terrain. Than throw them there full movement up into em or near em.....just make em move fast. Make sure you whip that tape measurer out and let them know...you ignore this....I'll flank you.

A large reply about the Yheetes but I truly feel that they are a golden unit and put them in every list I have. They have always made there points back either drawing fire or hitting a crucial flank.