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One problem I have with GW Daemons is that while the fluff is pretty good at presenting daemons as monstrous beings from outside our reality the game and the models pretty much treats them as another spikey skull encrusted hand to hand unit.

What about the ones who haunt the warp and crawl into vulnerable minds?

So here's my modest addition.



WARP WRAITHS
WS4, BS0, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, Ld 10, Sv 3+ (invulnerable)
Type - Jump Infantry, daemon
Special rules - Power weapons, furious charge, +1 strength against psykers, possession (see below)



Possession

When models are killed by wraiths put them on their side. At the end of the turn remove a wraith model and replace it with the dead model. The dead model (with it's original stats and wargear) is now under the full control of the Wraith player. The possessed models form a new unit (one unit per individual assault, per turn). Kill points are only awarded for wiping out the wraith unit, not if they all possess an enemy unit. No kill points are awarded for killing possessed models.



Notes - I see them appearing as little more than menacing mist at first. Stat-wise they're IG with I4. Then add in the Invulnerable save, power weapons and jumping to make them more ghostlike but not completely unstoppable. I considered having them live on if the host body is destroyed but thought that would be much too powerful.

Anyway, feedback?

And ideas on a point cost? 20 points? less? More?

Love the idea, but I would change the save from a 3+ invulnerable, to always benifiting from a 3+ cover save. These guys need a weakness and I see flamers turning this meanacing mist to steaming vapor. Also, I would drop the points down a little as well. Maybe 15-18?

didnt catch how many points these beasts would be?

edit oh yeah i see. hmm, i would have to test them in a battle against the different armies and then total them on thier effectiveness.

hmm, I think they should have some special rule preventing them from possessing extra powerful units. for example, what if one of these wraiths posessed the nightbringer. or even something like a meaty chaos daemon prince. If they could do that theyd be worth way more than 20 points.

I love the concept though.

& yeah, I definitely agree, 3+ cover save, not invulnerable.

Yeah, but jack... For every time they are facing a nightbringer or chaos prince, there will be three times when they are facing standard line guad, or guardians, or tau. The rules as written are fun, and by no means overpowering. Also did you look at the stat line of these guys? If they can take down a ctan, or demon prince than they deserve to posess him.

foil7102 wrote:Yeah, but jack... For every time they are facing a nightbringer or chaos prince, there will be three times when they are facing standard line guad, or guardians, or tau. The rules as written are fun, and by no means overpowering. Also did you look at the stat line of these guys? If they can take down a ctan, or demon prince than they deserve to posess him.

oh yeah, my mistake. I forgot they actually have to kill the model in order to posess it, I was thinking it was a special ability for a second there.

Admittedly I wasn't thinking of these guys vs a carnifex or something, should I include a rule that possessed models only have one wound?

I'd think letting them only possess models with a T value and that aren't monstrous creatures would suffice. That'd keep them out of greater daemons and carnifexes, but still let them get an ork warboss. I might also make the possessed model use the Wraith's stats instead of their own, or they only gain the possessed model's wounds maybe. Even if bump up the wraith's stats a bit, I think that helps balance (a possessed Lysander is scary, but not as scary as one with WS 3/4).

May only possess models of equal or +1 Toughness value? Also, they should remain a single unit regardless of who/what they posses and should be counted with kill points as normal. Keep it simple and keep it nice. Mucking around with all this "kills points here" then "no kill points when" would just become confusing or awkward, if not unfair.