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Hey guys I was recently looking at grinders. Is phlegm as a upgrade worth it? You get to make a free shot when you land and it scatters meaning it more than likely will do something.... but after this you kinda want to be charging forward to combat right? Do you guys think it is worth the points or is it better to go with bare bones grinders?

I would run them with phlegm in case of nob bikers, and i would run them with with tongue for land raiders spam or for when you just can't get into combat with your targets. I guess that could be why I voted for both. But I would rather have phlegm than tongue.

I'm becoming convinced that naked grinders are the way to go. Most of the time, I've found that running and then assaulting is more important than shooting.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is the whole immobilized thing. Without a shooting upgrade, the unit is nearly worthless if it becomes immobilized. But if you're taking two grinders, the 50 points you'd spend to get shooting is not an insignificant amount of points.

I voted for the phlegm upgrade, though it will obviously depend on your army build. I believe basic Soulgrinders, without any upgrades, can be a fine choice as well. Most army builds I see really need the extra horde killing power though, which is why I voted for phlegm. And, as yermom already said, phlegm is nice when you are facing Nob Bikers.

I run two SG's with phlegm. The fact any opponent knows you'll have 2 large Pie's hitting him will be less likely to set up his forces in a castle on the first turn, therefore allowing you to target the weak points.

Reaver83 wrote:I run two SG's with phlegm. The fact any opponent knows you'll have 2 large Pie's hitting him will be less likely to set up his forces in a castle on the first turn, therefore allowing you to target the weak points.

Yep, that's just it. Phlegm tends to work well with the rest of a daemon army configuration. Opponents worry about the large blast template, forcing them to consider deploying and maneuvering in ways that make the rest of a daemon army (deepstriking/assault oriented) work much more effectively.

I think it really depends on the composition of the rest of your army. If you run Pavane in your army, then Phlegm (and even the basic Vomit) become really useful. Tongue is useful for popping vehicles on the turn you drop but your SG will have a big target painted on their foreheads so you have to ask yourself how much are you really willing to spend on something that might only last one turn. 185 points for a fully kitted out SG isn't too bad compared to a fully decked out DP at 215+ but vehicles popping to a single shot is rough.

Overall, my vote is Phlegm because it forces your opponent to spread out more and that in turn allows you to focus on a part of their army at a time. Assaulting their weak flank is one of the Daemon army's strong points and this helps to facilitate that.

I dont play deamons but when they play me i find that tongue tends to hurt me more i spread out against deamons anyway so that really dont matter.

definetly phlem over tongue, and both over no gear at all. You want this guy to punish people before as well as when he's in combat

Phlegm on both SG's, assuming you run two Or a mix of both.

Tongue. One of the few ways to tackle heavy armor that Daemons can take. Especially against raider spam and with Crusher you have little problems with hordes and assaults but struggle to catch Landraiders with only one Thirster at most because of Kairos.

phlegm for me. tongue rarely hits for me and i find that using alot of BOT or bloodthirsters works better and is much more satisfying...and besides, with phlegm, BS isnt as important as it is with a non scatter shot.

I do them all based on the list. It really depends on the composition. My one rule is that I only take the tongue upgrade if I'm running 3 grinders. That gives you fairly decent odds of popping one vehicle a turn.

Tongue, without question.

Peripheral bonuses:

Snipe IC's
Good shot vs. heavy armor
something to do when immobilized.

The main deal however is that its a way to get the enemy out of their rhinos. The difference between a Bloodcrusher unit charging a Berserker unit that just got blasted out of their rhinos and those same bloodcrushers charging the rhino, blowing it up and then getting counter charged is mind boggling.

Let me bold the bottom line:
Daemons have Very Few Ways to destroy Transports in the Shooting Phase.

Tongue is one of the only ones. It is completely critical. Without it you will be on the back foot in every encounter with Mech enemy's, you might as well take Furious Charge off of your Khorne units, cuz you won't be charging.

Edit: As for Phlegm, anything you can shoot with Phlegm you can charge with Demons.