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I was reading the Analysis of Deathstar Theory post by 40kenthusiast, and started thinking.
What is the best Deathstar unit?

Before you ask what is a deathstar unit, read the Analysis of Deathstar Theory post.

I think that a proviso should be that we are playing a game of 2000 points to 2999, so 1 lord character, and 3 heroes max.

Also there should be enough points left to take the required core units.

Lizardmen seem like a possible contender - a large unit of Temple Guard with a Slann giving them all a 5+ Ward and Fear, a War Banner on the unit itself, and three fighty Scar-Veterans in the front rank - probably one Reaper, one Challenger, and one Tank in case you come up against a tooled-up fighty Lord. This also gives you the advantage of a Champion in the front rank.

As they are Temple Guard with a Slann and the Battle Standard, they are on Ld 8 Cold-Blooded with a reroll, which gives them approximately a 98.9% chance of holding against any foe. They cause Fear and therefore, if they win the combat, will almost certainly break just about any foe. They're also immune to Fear-causing foes and are not particularly worried about Terror-causing foes.

You then fill the remaining points with roughly 20-30 Skinks, which can evade and shoot down most fast cavalry or small hunter-style units. They may even be able to protect the flanks slightly by whittling down units preparing to flank charge.

Shades by far.
50 guys with repeater crossbows, an assassian, and the ASF banner. Will crush people in shooting alone.

Though you cant join your heros to it (youd have your heiro behind the casket and prince could be flying around with the cloak).. A unit of 40 or so Ushabti sounds gross

Instead of saying Reaper, Challenger, etc. I think we should detail them out as part of detailing out the Deathstar. They come different from every dex, and you need to evaluate them as part of evaluating the Star.

How about:

Skulltaker on Juggernaught (Challenger)
Herald of Khorne on Juggernaught w/armor of Khorne, flame blade, BSB carrying Grand Standard of Sundering (or Stubborn Banner, not sure precisely which is better)
Herald of Khorne on Juggernaught w/armor of Khorne (no flame blade, designated guy for killing chars immune to flaming attacks)
20 Bloodcrushers w/full command, banner of always march.

Rest of the army is Pink Horrors who hide and give dispel dice. Alternatively you can take 8 less to get a Thirster.

That'll run right over most things.

Vampire Lord with Red Fury, Hatred, Magic Weapon, etc.
Wight King BSB with Regen Banner
Wight King with Sword of Kings and 2+ armor save (the number of enemy chars I've killed with this guy...)
Vampire with Hatred, magic weapon
30 Grave Guard with HW/Shield and Banner of Barrows.

Very difficult to kill and with Killing Blow are a threat to just about everything.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

A unit of black guard with the banner that grants ASF and lokhir fellheart with a assasin inside........can you say owned??

cypher wrote:Shades by far.
50 guys with repeater crossbows, an assassian, and the ASF banner. Will crush people in shooting alone.

I admit that I do not have the new DE book, but unless DE have special rules on shooting in more than one rank, how do you figure you're going to fire more than 10 at a time?

Shades are skirmishers, no ranks.

And therefore not a good Deathstar unit. They'll lose against even a halfway decent ranked unit with characters. Not to mention all the ways to get around shooting (banners which allow a charge/no stand and shoot, magic spells for the same, regen + high AS + ward save = ignore shooting, spells to stop shooting at all, etc.)

I think this thread is more about proposing DS units than judging any of them.

And therefore not a good Deathstar unit. They'll lose against even a halfway decent ranked unit with characters

The problem there is that most ranked units that charge them cease to be ranked units after the stand and shoot. There are few ways arround this (and no rock hard unit to my knowledge has one)
They can easily avoid any movement 4 ro 5 block as well.

My second choice is the bus
10 black knights, regen banner, and 3 vamps. Moves fast, hard to kill, kills everyone (doesnt usually need extra ranks as the walking death help enough)

Hrm, I am not sure a shade DS is that great. It doesn't get ranks (so has CR problems), isn't ITP or stubborn, and is only S3. A Knight DS would roll over it. T4 3+ save guys would shrug off most hits. And the assassin isn't a guaranteed character killer by any means (Venom Sword is about the only way to get there). I would think the other 3 proposed DSs would annihilate it.

I saw Aaron Chapman using 40 Eternal Guard w/Lord w/Annoyance and Terror, BSB, Rhymer's Harp, and something that gave MR. Seemed to work okay. Ran it with another block of 30 and riders.

Ozy- Make those GG BKs and we are talking :-) Autohit lance is my choice for Red Fury. Banner of Hatred or Flaming Attacks also works well. (Flaming is meta against other regenerators/Treemen/TKs/etc.). I would go Wight BSB with Regen instead of SoK, though. Then just hide 2 min units of zombiess and some fell bats for WMs/marchblock and hounds to fit!

bigchris1313 wrote:

cypher wrote:Shades by far.
50 guys with repeater crossbows, an assassian, and the ASF banner. Will crush people in shooting alone.

I admit that I do not have the new DE book, but unless DE have special rules on shooting in more than one rank, how do you figure you're going to fire more than 10 at a time?

Movement:
Move as skirmishers.

Magic:
Anything close will think twice about casting against the Ring and if it is successfully cast there are the 3 null talisman to add to the dispell.

Shooty:
Lots of shots and they all get to fire.

HTH:
That's why there's the Dreadlord and other Heros/BSB in the unit. 50+ Shades with greatweapons make for a super unit. Take the Ring of Hotek, 3 Null Talisman (MR 3), and Standard of Hag Grief. Flavor the Lord/Heros as killy.

Won't give up VP.

Move as skirmishers. Got it.

Tomb Kings can construct a Death Star remarkable for its mobility.

If you take a max sized Tomb Guard unit with the Icon of Rakoph, then lead it with a TK with Destroyer of Eternities and bring along two princes, one armed with the Screaming Skull Flail, you've got your basic DS (they can also have defensive trinkets, or MR items or what have you).

The amazing thing about this unit is the mobility granted by the Icon of Rakoph, which basically lets it move 10" in its movement phase. Then, presuming that an urgency gets off, it can either move another 4 or charge 8. So, it threats an 18" circle, and unlike a VC unit there's no need to get a successful urgency off to charge flank or rear, as the Icon goes off automatically at the start of the move phase.

The next amazing thing is the Destroyer combined with smiting, which lets you threat their chars...and much more importantly will almost always kill their champion before combat begins, thus giving you control of the challenge. Further, the Destroyer aids in damaging guys on dragons or other monstrous mounts, and let's the TK function as both reaper and challenger, depending on the situation.

This unit isn't quite a DS, per se, just because of not costing enough, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Ozymandias wrote:Vampire Lord with Red Fury, Hatred, Magic Weapon, etc.
Wight King BSB with Regen Banner
Wight King with Sword of Kings and 2+ armor save (the number of enemy chars I've killed with this guy...)
Vampire with Hatred, magic weapon
30 Grave Guard with HW/Shield and Banner of Barrows.

Very difficult to kill and with Killing Blow are a threat to just about everything.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Could add a Necro on a cart to this unit so you get a Bound 3 ASF item (Perhaps give the units GWs for gaks/giggles). Although not a true DS, the scariest unit I've toyed with (That I can control!) from the book was;

Vamps with hatred, blah blah, kitted to kill
Wight w/ Regen banner
GG w/ GWs
Banner Barrows
Necro ASF bound spell
Helm of Command Vamp trailing in Skeleton bunker

Grave Guard always strike first with GWs, hitting on 2+s, wounding on 2+ w/ killing blow and vamps do their thing

You can't presume that they'll let you get off a bound spell that gives your DS ASF. Everyone's got 2 dispel dice to throw at that. Particularly in a unit where you haven't kitted out the Vamps to all have Vanhels. There's not much else to dispel aside from ASF. It's not like they mind you raising zombies or healing the unit. It'll either get crumped in one titanic attack, or remain inviolate.

Could you please explain how the icon of rakaph - which allows a free reform move - grants the skeletons an extra 6" of movement? I'm just getting back into warhammer so i'm obviously missing something here. The 7th ed rulebook seems to tell me that reforming is just re-arranging the shape and face of your unit rather than taking another move.

Is it something like: turn one right angle, then add more files sideways, then turn again? They still aren't allowed to move more than 4" though right?

Sure, you reform into a line, facing whatever direction you want to go and keeping the center point of the unit the same. Nobody can move more than twice their movement though, so no matter how many tomb guard you've got, this only gains you 8 inches.

That was your free reform move, no it's time for your move phase. If you just want to go you spend 50% of your move to add models to the front rank, bringing it from 1 to 5. You've got 2 inches left to go forward, for a total of 10 inches moved, in any direction at all.

Next it's your magic phase. Urgency gives you the charge. Thus, you threaten a total of 18" in every direction from your starting point. This is why the Icon of Rakoph is widely considered the most powerful standard (bar literally none) in the entire game. It's actually even more horrifying in a giant Chariot unit, you can basically charge anyone on the entire board every round, but the chariots have certain issues, and can't bring along the Destroyer of Eternities.

If you aren't confident that you can get an Urgency off (though that is really unlikely, to reliably block a TK magic phase you need from 150% to 200% of their dice, which are typically around 7 or 8, with 2 extra from the item in the important round, so that's between 12 and 16 dispel dice needed. Maybe Tzeentch could pull it off.) you can forgo the Urgency and simply charge off the reform, which results in a spear of Tomb Guard led by the King hitting the enemy up to 16", but you better win (with no rank bonuses), because if you don't you won't be able to add ranks to your unit and get back into a fighting formation, and you'll be stuck in a big line with no rank bonuses.

Further, smiting on this unit is insanely effective. Between the KB of the joes, the King's DoE (which will murder the enemy champ, do a number on their chars and steal a rank before combat begins) and the Flail of Skulls from a hero it can often decide the battle between your DS and their biggest unit w/Lord before the magic phase even comes to an end.

I like the TK idea. With the right incantations (which can come easily from all the characters your putting in the DS) this unit can get two moves and two combats every turn. Any unit that runs or survives will get a second blast from this DS. Nice