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I've been eyeballing the Eldar models for a while (collection purposes) and I'm just wondering, what's the best non HQ close combat unit in the army? I'm looking at the Banshees and Scorpions, but I've forgotten what I've gleaned from the codex the last time I read it.

against Hordes: Scorpions.

against MEQs(i.e., space marines, necrons):Banshees.

Against 1-wound but low model count opponents: Harlequins w/ harlequin's kisses.

ungulateman

Banshees are for low count, high power units.

Scorpions are for hordes.

Harlequins are for... well... I don't quite know...

Wraithlord with Sword is pretty good too.

Shining Spears can do some good Damage too. And there fast to boot. S6 Power Weapons, Through an Autarch on bike and LL with then i think i had some 11 S6 Power attks (3 ss + HQ), and 3 S8 (From the Exatch) on the charge...and at an I that will beat all but THE fastest of units. Give them Hit and Run and watch people run in fear.

So to echo what others have mentioned...

Banshees:
They have power weapons, are fleet, are reasonably priced, always attack first in the first round and can be put in a wave serpent. All these things make them great at killing heavy infantry (MEQ's, terminators, and the like). Their down side is that they are T3 with a 4+ save. This means that they can't deal well with being shot at on the way into (or just after) combat. They also do poorly in protracted combats where it takes several rounds to kill their opponents (so don't send them against hordes). They are also only S3 so they struggle with high toughness targets like bikers or plague marines.

Scorpions:
They are the same price as banshees but have a much different role. Instead of armor piercing power weapons, these guys are base strength 4 and have more attacks due to the mandiblasters. This makes them much better suited to dealing with horde units like orcs, gaunts, and IG troops. Their heavy armor also helps them a lot in both protracted hand to hand and with taking incoming enemy fire. Their lack of fleet though makes it a bit harder for them to get into hand to hand.

Harlequins:
These guys are a little bit of both worlds. Quins hit very hard in their initial round of hand to hand. Rending, furious charge, and base 2 attacks really go a long way to doing huge piles of damage on most targets in the first round of combat. The quins also have a unique advantage in the form of the shadow seer which makes it so that the squad doesn't have to worry about getting shot at from long range (although short range fire is something they really need to fear). The down side to quins is that they are even more frail than banshees when they start taking attacks back at them. They are T3 (like all eldar) but only have a 5+ save to protect them, and while it is invulnerable, it isn't enough to mitigate much damage. They end up costing about as much as the other hand to hand units (since they don't require transports to get them to the enemy safely) and end up doing quite a bit of damage, but they must be used carefully and with support since they are the most frail of the 3 primary hand to hand units.

Dreadnaughts:
While they are not generally considered amongst the traditional eldar hand to hand units, dreadnaughts can be used for the purpose. Their high toughness and strength make them very well suited to the task. Most units in the game are actually unable to do any damage at all to the dreadnaught (being S4 or less) but you do have to watch out for units with powerfists (or similar weapons) because they will take out your dreadnaught fairly quickly. One thing to keep in mind is that anything that's fighting your dreadnaught is likely to be there for a while. The dreadnaughts do not have enough attacks to take out whole squads quickly but they are great at squishing enemy characters since all their attacks at S10.

Shining Spears:
Of the eldar hand to hand units, these guys are the fastest. Mounted on jetbikes, they can move 24" in a turn if they need to and have an 18" charge range on turns when they don't go 24". They are also extremely tough by eldar standards having T4 and a 3+ save. This combined with their S6 power weapons (on the charge) make them potentially dangerous. The down side to the unit is their severely limited number of attacks. Each rider has a base of 1 attack and they do not have multiple weapons, so they get 1 attack every round and only 2 on rounds that they charge. This make them well suited to taking out only units with small model counts or ones that are really bad at hand to hand (like long range fire support squads). They are also the most costly of the eldar hand to hand units.

you forgot to mention the hit-and-run of shining spears in that summary. It's important since their weapons are raelly only good on the charge, so the ability to break off and charge again helps them greatly.

Very true. Having hit and run can really help them out. The problem that I really have with spears is that they just don't take casualties well. They are fairly tough (they are MEQ's) but they are expensive and run in small squads. So if they lose a guy on the way in and then another one or two in the rounds of meele before they get to the "run" portion of "hit and run" then there isn't much left to hit with again the second time around. Again, if you can get them in on the right targets, they are deadly but they can get defanged very fast.

i remember back in the day when the avatar was a must for a eldar cc army. but now hes so expensive points wise

the only issue i have the Avatar is that every LAS Cannon and Hammerhead Solid Slug will be gunning for him as soon as hes on the field. and hes too slow to get close enough before they gun him down. He does make things Fearless but still, hes too big a threat to field, my opponents will just shoot shoot shoot him dead. and too from what ive seen, he tends not to play well with non CC aspects and my army is mostly dakka based.

psf3077 wrote:the only issue i have the Avatar is that every LAS Cannon and Hammerhead Solid Slug will be gunning for him as soon as hes on the field. and hes too slow to get close enough before they gun him down. He does make things Fearless but still, hes too big a threat to field, my opponents will just shoot shoot shoot him dead. and too from what ive seen, he tends not to play well with non CC aspects and my army is mostly dakka based.

Brillaint. Granted hes quite slow to be made into a real CC threat but if he does get the chance, he does stomp sword or no sword. As a bs4 dudey, load up on a shuriken cat & scatter laser for massed dakka, a scatter laser and EML or a bit of variety (and best ranged, best overall imo) or a brightlance and EML (pure at but possibly too expensive).

The brillaint part about it is, if youve fielded your two fire prisms (Or falcons, if you must) hes taking away perfectcly good AT fire from those two tanks so be happy.

Make him a decent fire platform (one of the 1st two options) and walk him up the field (although try slogging it through cover.. he is a MC after) and he'll draw fire from the tanks - which when you wound on 3-2's (Krak rockets are just great to waste on him) with a hopeful 4+ cover, 3wounds.. see the usefulness?

He's talking about the avatar of Khaine, not the Wraithlord.

The Avatar has a 4+ Invlulnerable and at 155 points he isn't very expensive at all.

Eldar are primarily a shooting army. Making a HtH Eldar army is a dicey proposition at best. Maybe a suicide unit to get at something hiding but then you could just use the Dark Reaper Exarch with Tempest Launcher for that. Even if they are dug in worse than an alabama tick.

Oh, the avatar rocks balls for that reason. if you wanna try and take off 4 wounds with a 4+ then good luck. Same principle as the lord but better. Plus the avatar will be running every turn cept the charge turn

Not a cc orienatated army? Eldar can do fiiine in close combat, they just dont have an-everything unit (cept seers) unlike, for example, a marine assault squad with a powerfist & melta/krak bombs.

Well, if you really want a cc type army, then you should have some shooties in there to help asure their targets are met. I would suggest Dark Reapers,they have proven to be invaluable. At 227 pts you will have 5 Reapers, Exarch with EML, fast and crack shot at 48" range. Having your Farseer with guide next to these guys will destroy units. They will make it more likely that your cc units will make it to the fight.

My friend recently faced a Scorpion unit led by Karandras.

Now Special K's the only Phoenix Lord that he'd actually use.

Eldar can excell at close combat but only if you spend enough time with them to determin when to attack and not to attack.

Banshee- best fielded with a farseer and the doom power. This will help with the strength 3 hits. Always spend the 5 pts for acrobat and give the exarch the exectioner. Fleet of foot gives this unit a decent charge range. Survivability is low to average so pick your area of assualt carefully and try to combine it with more than one unit assualting in conjunction. Good chance of breaking any unit it attacks with Doom as a modifier.

Scorpians- great for killing hoard armies. Good armor and will survive the counter charge of most armies. Not having fleet of foot hurts the charging ability of this unit so you need to watch distances carefully. Will more than likely not wipe out your opponent in round 1 of combat unless they have bad armor saves. This can be both good and bad depending on what your next moves were going to be.

Harlies- diminshed slightly but not too bad. Personally I use this unit 90% of the time as a counter attack unit and will only commit it to assualting my opponents side of the board if things have become truly desperate. Again a farseer with Doom around will help this unit alot.

Shinning Spears- used to be one of my favorite unit. But now with the new shooting rules. IF you lose the exarch, this unit is worthless without withdrawl. I have kept in the bag except for throw around games.

I found that Eldar is better played shooty following the paradigm:
Shoot her cc nasties and charge her shooters.

A very good idea.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:My friend recently faced a Scorpion unit led by Karandras.

Now Special K's the only Phoenix Lord that he'd actually use.

Karandras is a good CC lord but thats all, a one trick pony and when left in the middle of nowhere dies easy.

The best lord out of them all is either The banshee one, with AP3 S5 Assault 3 power weapon, and carves up in assault or Maugan Ra, who has the best mix, a S6 AP4?[dont remember] Assault 4, pinning, render 36" range cannon with power weapon of S5.

Phoenix Lords are too expensive for what they can achieve.

Farseers in a supporting role and Autarchs on jetbikes improving reserve rolls are better.

Harlequins.

-Take a shadow seer always - this allows you to actually get into combat. because the average enemy range against them is now going to be 14", your fleet charge is 12"+d6, really makes this squad fantastic

-They ignore terrain - that means that the enemy can't hide behind cover to make it less likely that you will be in assault range, which is awesome.

-You might say they are only great on the charge, because that's the only time they get the extra attack and furious charge bonus, but they have hit and run! use that after the combat in your opponents turn, and just charge right back in.

-Take a troupe master with a power weapon instead of harlequin's kiss and you've got part of what makes banshees good right there.

-Harlequin's save is invulnerable

Best eldar cc unit.

Harlies?

Well, a Shadowseer is not needed if the squad is transported. The reason is that Harlies ignore terrain and so always charge with their normal initiative. Thus they don't need plasma grenades.
And when they charged and wiped out an enemy unit, veil of tears is not really helpful as they usually will be close to the enemy.

Read what Wuest and Phoenix have to say. Wuest imho is one of the very few on here who has a very instinctive nature when it comes to the eb and flow of how an Eldar army works at heart, and Phoenix has given you some very handy research infomation that is very close the money.

To answer your question, there is no true all in one solution like an all-rounder Marine. Eldar have a harmony all of their own on the table top, no other race comes close, bar perhaps the Tyranids and their myriad of mutations. The CC choices have been listed thusfar, and each given a rough overview, however if its simply for collection purposes (and im assuming you mean as a display piece perhaps?) then simply go for what you feel is appealing... for a solo unit, the Forgeworld Avatar (Spear or Sword Type) provide one badarse model as a center piece, for a squad, well thats up to you... I must admit the latest Scorps look the business.

If however, I am incorrect in my assumption, and you're looking to put together a battle worthy force, make speed your friend and couple it with firepower as the basis for your army planning, so begin to isolate those units, then have a good think about HOW you play, and develop a strategy you may like to employ... then apply the appropriate units to make it work best for you. Remember, make mobility and target prioritissation your friend and you will do just fine. There are MANY threads on here as to what units suit what situations, and you will quickly pick up the favourites. Make certain that your units COMPLIMENT each other, every successful Eldar force has a harmony within it, every unit has a counter and must be supported, if you fail to remember this, you're doomed before you've even started. Match units with similar speed, the ability to compliment their weaknesses and choose your support gear (Seer powers, weapon loadouts etc) very carefully and don't go too nuts on decking any one unit out, its about balance not making a single juicy target (too many people fall into this trap and create an achilles heel - overkitting Serpents/Falcons etc are such an example).

Personally, its very hard to not make good use of a Shining Spear unit lead by an Autarch, supported by a Jetseer and a medium sized mounted council as a start... Jetbike Squadrons (inc a Jetlock w/ Embolden + Spear works well here) of course should be used as well, making maximum use of your overall mobility whilst keeping your center of gravity within the force itself. The last thing you will want is half an army not within reach of the other, splitting your forces without intent and careful planning will give your opponent opportunity to pull you apart like fresh bread. Due to the versatility of the Eldar, make sure to not fall into the trap of having your supporting units end up swapping places with your core force... and vice versa, although with the diverse capabilities some Eldar units have, it may be tempting to throw the hammer in before the anvil!

Mastering an Eldar force is a very rewarding experience which will challenge you at a high strategic and tactical level to get 100% right. Don't get me wrong, any fool can pull off a win now and then against a random opponent, yet to utterly overwhelm your opponent having them on the back foot the entire game... consecutively... with Eldar... is something else entirely.

All the best with assembling your army, I trust it will be a rewarding experience

Cheers,
Dave