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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Pirate bits are a good call, that would sell me a box I think. But of all the bits, to maximize sale, I'm convinced it is most important to have the full Kings of War arsenal, as outlined by kodos. If you can build a full mass battle army out of the one kit, competing only against GW's fat joke Ogres and Mantic's skipped-leg-day restic, then it might have a bright future.

I love my GW ogres but the lack of bodies is a little painfull. I cannot stand mantic ogres, they look like giant uruk hais but worse, even the new ones with normal legs don't look any ogre to me.

Why so many people hates GW ogres? Personally alongside Warcraft ones they are the best I have found (The mongolian and caveman theme is also a favourite of mine, alongside warcraft roman gladiator ogres)

I mean look at this. Beautifull:

As someone that has over 100 GW Ogre minis, I really don't understand the hate for them. They are gorgeous sculpts with great detail.

I don't hate them, but I much prefer the WHFB3-styled ones by Jes, and even Bob Olley's sculpts fit the same ethos. After that the marauder ones were okay, but the subsequent models with a poor attempt at continuing the previous style were not good overall. The new/current OK style ones are a lot better than the ones that directly preceded them (and I like them myself) but yeah, I still much prefer the C23 range.

I probably have 100 plastic GW Ogres too, I don't hate them (but I do hate that outside cavalry, the 100 dudes have a grand total of 2 body sculpts and they're pretty much just one sculpt mirrored) but it's a quite specific aesthetic that can easily be said to be Flanderized, and I understand that many don't like them, plus how far behind the times the kits are in quality.

I got 2 Boxes, standard infantry and those with the cannons (from a friend who wanted to start an army but never build them)

never really liked their general style, having fixed legs that all looked the same (and made it hard to convert)
the theme was good and the newer models are better and I really like the monsters/cavalry but for infantry I prefer the Warmachine Ogres/Warmonger models

I also like the Mantic Ogre Heroes more than the GW ones, yet they also have messed up the legs for standard infantry

I like the GW ogres. I like that they are chunky. I also like the reaper bones ogres… and they look good next to the GW ones. Especially if you mix in GW bits with them.

The Landsknecht aspect might be very specific, but it will be very interesting to see what style the Ogres take for sure.
As my personal 0.02$, it would be great if they could fit in with the Oathmark ones (should be a plastic set for those before too long if I'm not mistaken). Northstar's Rangers of Shadow Deep had an ogre that's certainly my favourite released anywhere in recent years, somewhat reminiscent of the Mordheim one. No overly weird proportions, just a burly big boy in a nice classical style. If the Oathmark ones are similar, WA having the fancier Landsknecht ones would be a fantastic combination. (Not sure of pirate parts, that seems a very different style. I'd rather see more weapon options, maybe with a different front torso and heads for female Ogres (other proportional differences would be negligible), and if possible some variation in poses. Not easy to squeeze much on these sprues perhaps, but I look forward to seeing what WA manage!)

… on the Wargames Atlantic Facebook site, and Wargames Atlantic legion Facebook … there are some wild theories and upset people.

The ogres winning is “revenge of the historical fans who conspired to make revenge”

One guy said he quit the legion because he obviously has nothing in common with others if ogres could win.

People are complaining that “useful sets” didn’t win and something as un-useful as ogres did. And these will never sell in proper numbers and WA will suffer from it.

Mostly it’s lamenting that something “useful” didn’t win and the “not Warhammer crowd” won.

 Smokestack wrote:
… on the Wargames Atlantic Facebook site, and Wargames Atlantic legion Facebook … there are some wild theories and upset people.

The ogres winning is “revenge of the historical fans who conspired to make revenge”

One guy said he quit the legion because he obviously has nothing in common with others if ogres could win.

People are complaining that “useful sets” didn’t win and something as un-useful as ogres did. And these will never sell in proper numbers and WA will suffer from it.

Mostly it’s lamenting that something “useful” didn’t win and the “not Warhammer crowd” won.

That was me, and now I'm trying to help make the set sell. If I can get over the most niche of the 12 sets somehow winning, you can get over people being disappointed something else didn't win.

I can. just find the reactions a bit overly over the top. There is only one Fantasy set currently. The Halflings. The spiders I guess are fantasy too… so ok 2. The goblins are coming. But it’s not like fantasy sets have taken over. Having one fantasy set win shouldn’t be that much of a controversy.

But I get being disappointed, hopefully one of the sets currently in production but not yet announced will be more in line with what you and those other people like.

Miniatures should bring us together, not tear us apart! I do appreciate you rolling with it and trying to make the ogres successful though. Having the set be the best it can be benefits everyone.

 Smokestack wrote:
I can. just find the reactions a bit overly over the top. There is only one Fantasy set currently. The Halflings. The spiders I guess are fantasy too… so ok 2. The goblins are coming. But it’s not like fantasy sets have taken over. Having one fantasy set win shouldn’t be that much of a controversy.

But I get being disappointed, hopefully one of the sets currently in production but not yet announced will be more in line with what you and those other people like.

No no no I don't mind fantasy winning at all. Just that it's a very niche kit and the Landsknecht part made me think maybe historical players were trolling us

My votes were for Modular Robots, Post-apoc Survivors and Cultists/Monks, all stuff I thought would be maximally useful in a lot of non-historical games.

I don’t think you were one that didn’t want fantasy in the Facebook comments. But those comments are there.

Apologies if I included you in that.

Well, still one of my favorite GW ogres of all time, I have like 6 of them from splitting the Milton Bradley/GW boxes which got me into Warhammer back in the day.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

No no no I don't mind fantasy winning at all. Just that it's a very niche kit and the Landsknecht part made me think maybe historical players were trolling us .

I’m not sure if that was the original concept guy’s intent… it could have been.

Honestly, had it just been ogres, I probably wouldn’t have voted for it. I am not a historic player… I heard landsknechts and thought these would fit in great with my empire stuff.

I'm wondering what these people consider "useful" kits, and if everyone would give a diffrent answer when asked.

Well.

There's the people who are selfish, usually they can't see more than a week ahead either, so they'll just vote for whatever they personally need for their next game and then not even buy it because it came out a year after they actually needed it.

Then there's people who consider what will be the most useful to everybody (maybe overall, or in their own segment of gaming), but of course, we can still have a very very bad perception of the needs of other players, as evidenced by this poll.

I have a full WHFB Ogre army as well as an AoS Mawtribe and random Ogres spread out in my Empire and Chaos Dwarf armies. I love the GW aesthetic of Ogres far more then their beefy cousins. I mean GW explained their design choice for them way back in 6th when they were introduced. All Folk lore all across the world that features Ogres always have them kidnapping people to eat. So their look actually fits much better then the the smaller, more cut ogres. at least that's my opinion.

I am surprised the Ogres did win though, I was expecting either the medieval civilians or sci-fi ones would.

I’ll admit that I look at stuff like this selfishly. My agenda is “do I like this? Will I buy it?” Beyond that, I wouldn’t really get involved in something I am not interested in.

Like if they asked for thoughts on WW1 East Siberians. I wouldn’t offer any. Not only because I have none… but because I will not buy them no matter how good they turned out.

If nothing else this poll/contest has been a fascinating study in gaming culture and community.

It is disappointing that it has been so divisive.

The winner is not a set I voted for but I hope WA adds sci-fi, Conquistador, Pirate themed elements to give the more folks more options.

I suggested Ottoman Jannissaries… but in hindsight I should have suggested Tinker Gnomes.

 Smokestack wrote:
… on the Wargames Atlantic Facebook site, and Wargames Atlantic legion Facebook … there are some wild theories and upset people.

The ogres winning is “revenge of the historical fans who conspired to make revenge”

One guy said he quit the legion because he obviously has nothing in common with others if ogres could win.

People are complaining that “useful sets” didn’t win and something as un-useful as ogres did. And these will never sell in proper numbers and WA will suffer from it.

Mostly it’s lamenting that something “useful” didn’t win and the “not Warhammer crowd” won.

It seems like every vote is fraudulent, suspect, rigged, etc. according to the supporters of the losing side as of late.

I'm wondering what these people consider "useful" kits, and if everyone would give a diffrent answer when asked.

Lippe-Schaumburg Napoleonic infantry were ROBBED! Clearly the most useful kit on the list, how dare you imply anything else might have been more useful!

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
… but in hindsight I should have suggested Tinker Gnomes.

I would vote for that kit!

 Smokestack wrote:
I’ll admit that I look at stuff like this selfishly. My agenda is “do I like this? Will I buy it?” Beyond that, I wouldn’t really get involved in something I am not interested in.

Well, ultimately, I think that's what WGA's question was. Would you buy this?

I tried to also click things I imagine a lot of other people will also want to buy, but clearly my accuracy is low


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway our job now is to make Landsknecht Ogres the best kit it can be.

Possibly by subverting them into Pirate Ogres with Landsknecht conversion bits

The historical players’ troll option was WW1 Italians. The FB group had at least three historical gamers begging people who weren’t interested in anything to vote for the WW1 Italians so Sci fi wouldn’t win.

Also, you forgot the fantasy Lizardmen.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The historical players’ troll option was WW1 Italians. The FB group had at least three historical gamers begging people who weren’t interested in anything to vote for the WW1 Italians so Sci fi wouldn’t win.

Ha ha, fair play for them to be as hostile towards us as I am towards them

I half expected WW1 Italians to win solely from accumulating all historical votes and while wholly uninteresting to me, I would think it a good match for WGA.

 Smokestack wrote:
I’ll admit that I look at stuff like this selfishly. My agenda is “do I like this? Will I buy it?” Beyond that, I wouldn’t really get involved in something I am not interested in.

Like if they asked for thoughts on WW1 East Siberians. I wouldn’t offer any. Not only because I have none… but because I will not buy them no matter how good they turned out.

I was the opposite, I tried to vote within the context of "what is an actual gaping hole in the market with no plastic options and limited metal/resin options, and which would also serve as a great base for conversions and kitbashes for fantasy, scifi, and other miniatures gamers". Basically, what would have the most utility to the most people - including myself, even if I don't currently have a specific need for that thing. The reality is that in general most consumers don't know that they need a product until that product exists, and thats definitely true for miniatures. I don't need plastic WW1 Italian infantry... but if they existed I might need them as the basis for a guard army conversion, or for my Turnip/Sludge conversions, or as a new force for my WW1 Austro-Hungarians to face off against, etc.

We are lacking serious plastic heavy armoured ogre miniatures.

I love mantic palace guard ogre knights concept. The only problem is that they are made by mantic. In restic. Without options.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The historical players’ troll option was WW1 Italians. The FB group had at least three historical gamers begging people who weren’t interested in anything to vote for the WW1 Italians so Sci fi wouldn’t win.

Also, you forgot the fantasy Lizardmen.

And the Fantasy Skeletons.

If they’d wanted and were able.
A poll for historical separate to a fantasy/sci-fi could have been a good idea..
I’m surprised they won for sure. As mentioned they are quite specific.

However, my Ogre Army, despite being finished to a point I’m happy at (list wise, not at all Painted wise).
Could have a box of these mixed in if they fit well enough.,

Derek H wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The historical players’ troll option was WW1 Italians. The FB group had at least three historical gamers begging people who weren’t interested in anything to vote for the WW1 Italians so Sci fi wouldn’t win.

Also, you forgot the fantasy Lizardmen.

And the Fantasy Skeletons.

The lizards are historical french from the pictures I have seen… and the skeletons… were the Greeks not all skeletons? I thought they were historically accurate too…

 Galas wrote:
We are lacking serious plastic heavy armoured ogre miniatures.

I love mantic palace guard ogre knights concept. The only problem is that they are made by mantic. In restic. Without options.

Mantic have palace guard ogres in Resin, not restic. Nice miniatures, too, with better proportions than their restic ogres.