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Well, I am facing a different SM army, and this one has a (correct me if I'm wrong) Predator - 240 ish points, guns on the side, big gun on top, big and uglymean.
I don't know what can deal with that in the orky army.
My thought:
Big Mek with kff 85
17 boyz with nob, bp, pk 142
Battlewagon with deffrolla, red paint, big shoota 120
12 boyz with nob, bp, pk 112
Trukk with red paint 40
499

All I can figure is that I ram the big tank with the deffrolla, disembark and try to powerklaw it while backing up for another ram attack.
I run the trukk to an objective and hide from the tank.

Being new sucks. I am learning and getting better, but this guy is bragging about what he is going to do, I can't touch his tank, blahblahblah...

Help me guys.

I also had a thought of this list:
HQ
Big mek kff 85

Troops
26 Shoota boyz 2bs, nob bp pk 206
19 gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy Support
3 killa kanz with kmb 165

496 points

Inigo Montoya wrote:I also had a thought of this list:
HQ
Big mek kff 85

Troops
26 Shoota boyz 2bs, nob bp pk 206
19 gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy Support
3 killa kanz with kmb 165

496 points

I like this 2nd list. Ppl really panics seeing amount of killkanz we can cram in a 500pt game xD

Are they the best solution for the predator? I am afraid he will pop them before they even get to him.
:(

I can set the grots on the back objective and run the boyz behing the kans for the extra PK attacks on the tank, but I don't know if there is a better solution.

Are you playing on a 4x4 table? If so then take a warboss with a PK and put him in a 30 strong mob of boyz with a pk nob. String 10 gretchin in front and run run run towards that predator. There's no way that the marines will be able to drop that mob in time to prevent the S10 warboss from hitting it hard. And if it stays stationary to blaze away that means you'll auto-hit with your attacks.

Edit: on the charge that warboss is a helluva lot more effective than kans and being surrounded by 30 boyz means he will actually get to the tank.
edit edit: if it's 240ish points it's a land raider. 14 AV all around.

So the warboss and the nob in the mob should be able to take it out? It is a 4 X 4 table. Since I am not stopping to shoot, I should take sluggas rather than shootas I would guess. If that is the case then this is a build I can run:

HQ
Warboss PK, BP, Armor 95

Troops
30 boyz, nob pk 215
19 gretchin with runtherd 67

Elite
8 lootas 120
497

-OR-

HQ
Warboss pk bp armor 95
Warboss pk bp armor 95

Troops
20 sluggas, nob pk 155
20 sluggas, nob pk 155
500

Since the tank you are telling us about costs 240 points, I'd bet you are talking about a Land Raider (of the Redeemer kind) and not about a Predator. If your gaming club is of the opinion that Deffrolla's can be used against vehicles (which is controversial, though I'm of the opinion that they can) than by all means take a Battlewagon with a Deffrolla and crush his Land Raider with D6 S10 hits. Even funnier against SM would be a list like this:

Big Mek with KFF
2x Battlewagon (Killkannon, 'Ard Case, Deffrolla, Red Paint Job)
2x Small troops unit filling up rest of the points

I haven't done the math so I don't know if it would fit, but if it fits, it will be mighty good to see 500 points of Space Marines, including a Redeemer, going up against 2x AP 3 Ordnance with AV 14 front and 2x Deffrolla.

Personally Id suggest to stay away from using a deff-rolla as a ram-tank wepaon as (besides it being illegal/legeal??) it will cause alot of strife, if the dakka is anything to go by.

I like your Killa-can list as everything is gonna get a cover save, right? Atleast 5+.. Screen the cans with your boys if you can & run everything at him. If your looking at a landraider.. leave the killing to a PK & start removing his marines real fast. He shouldnt have that many.

Basically, forget the LR until you can charge it. Annhilate the marines.

Eight lootas would be a bad idea. If two are killed you have to make a morale check.

Apparantly my points were off - it looks similar to a landraider but larger with a big turret/gun on top.

We do allow deffrollaz to attack vehicles. I could take the following list and stay @ 500:

HQ
Big mek kff 85
Troops
10 gretchin with runtherd 40
10 gretchin with runtherd 40
Heavy Support
Battlewagon red paint, ard case, deff rolla, kill kannon 190
Battlewagon red paint, ard case, deff rolla, kannon, big shoota 145
500

As I said, it is bigger than a land raider - I think I misheard him quote points. How many points is a predator?
Is the standard kannon even useful on the wagon? If not, I can drop it and use the no big gun having wagon as a screen and put armor plates on the one with a kill kannon.

I am afraid his big gun will crush kans before they can make it there.

Well if it is bigger than a Land Raider than we are dealing with a non-codex tank here. The Land Raider is the biggest tank the Space Marines have to offer (that is in the codex). A Predator is roughly rhino sized and costs about 85 points (with an autocannon and 2x heavy bolter). I don't think that's what he was talking about though, as you shouldn't worry about Predators.

If you want to take Battlewagons you should take em cheap. And I don't think taking 2 will make your list any better than your previous list. I think it'd be worse.

I'd take one and Kans:

Big Mek @ 115
KFF; PK; Bosspole

18 Slugga Boyz @ 108

Battlewagon @ 125
Deff rolla; Kannon; Big Shoota

3 Killa Kans @ 150 (together or 2/1)
Rokkit Launcha (x3)

Total: 498

So it's a mech list. Battlewagon is obscured, maybe the kans too. You could move 6'' and fire everything (kannon as defensive), or go fast. I'd do that cuz the Kans only have 25% of glancing AV14. Possibly 9+1D6 S10 hits plus Mek's PK. Good news is that if you killed a LR you killed half his army.

I will try that list.
If I am not stopping to shoot, what is the kannon for? (When would I use it?) I have to have 2 troop choices, so this might have to do something like this:
Big mek pk kff bp 115
15 sluggas nob pk
10 gretchin runtherd
2 kans rokkits

Too few boyz?

Well if you are using that FOC then so is he and there's no super tank you should worry about.

Big Mek w/KFF @ 85 Pts
2x20 Shoota Boyz w/Nob, PK, Bosspole @ 320 Pts
Killa Kan w/ Rokkit @ 50 Pts
Killa Kan w/ Grotzooka @ 45 Pts

Again, thanks for you patience and help, I am learning and there is a LOT of information to absorb.
My understanding is that standard FOC requires 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and an optional 1HQ, 3 elite, 5 troops, 3 fast attack, 3 heavy support, and dedicated transport.
As long as he fields an hq and 2 troops he can take the tank, correct?

That is correct, but as the cheapest HQ in the Space Marine codex costs 100 points (without any upgrades) and their cheapest Troops unit costs 75 points (also excluding upgrades) he will be hard pressed to fit 1 HQ, 2 Troops and the Land Raider inside a 500 points battle.

Also, if you are fielding Killa Kans I'd suggest giving them Grotzooka's. They are simply the best weapons for Killa Kans. If you need strength 7 or 8 weaponry, Lootas are just a better option. Don't forget Killa Kans have DCCW and so they have S10 attacks in close combat.

He'd have to take 2x5 Scouts (150 Pts) and a vanilla HQ (100 Pts) to afford the 250 Pts of an LR/LRC or LRR with multimelta. Yes, he'd have a big tank, but that's all he'd have. And just one of those doesn't have the magic power to stop all your S9 and S10 attacks.

If it is a Land Raider Redeemer, it has some bigass flamers (S6 AP3) on the sides, but the LR hull is wide so only one of the flamers can get a lot of hits. More importantly he has to get very close to your PKs to hit. The asscannon is nothing to worry much about. Only if he mounts a Multi Melta (and I would) you'd have to worry about your Kans' survival... Don't let him shoot em without the obscured save. So do what you do against templates and blasts: wide formations. Only let him get a few boyz at a time. And keep your Kans around the KFF or at least behind the boyz.

If it's a Land Raider Crusader, your Kans are for the most part safe because he can't mount a Multi Melta. The LRC is a beast when up close but you don't lose your cover saves.

If it's a Land Raider (vanilla), he can't do much against your infantry, but the Kans will surely be gone fast (TL Las x2).

Now he could take one of the smaller vehicles, but the only one that'd fit the description is the predator (Autocannon/Lascannon, HB on the sides), but that works even better for you because it's not a transport. Use your cover while you work his infantry (either scouts or less than 20 tacs).

I just talked to the fella that owns the shop. It is a redeemer or a baneblade, he isn't sure.

So this is the best I can figure squeezing 2 troops and an HQ:

HQ 110
Big Mek PK KFF

Troops 164
14 boyz, nob pk bp 124
10 gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy support 225
2 Killa kanz rokkitz 100
Battlewagon deff rolla, kannon, heavy shoota 125

I can try to keep the battlewagon between the kanz and tank. My grots will hold an objective or be a meat screen depending on the mission. When do I use the kannon on the wagon - I know I should be moving at the tank full speed...

That is soooo few boyz, it scares me.

A friend in Chicago just imed me. We were chatting and he suggested the following list to deal with the nasties @ 500:
HQ 225
Ghazhkull Thraka

Troops 159
14 boys nob pk 119
10 gretchin runtherd 40

Heavy support 115
Battlewagon deffrolla big shoota
499

He said Ghaz could eat the tank by himself if he can get there. He also said that the small mob would be more than adequate at mopping up the remainder of his troops since he cashed out with the tank.

I dunno, I haven't played long, but my understanding is that Ghaz is for 1500pt armies or greater...

"It is a redeemer or a baneblade, he isn't sure."


It can't be a baneblade, because those cost 500 pts. each! Probably a redeemer, idk what that is because i don't play loyalist SM.

A redeemer is just a land raider with STR 6 AP 3 flamers instead of lascannons and TL assualt cannon instead of TL heavy bolter. For orks at 500 it will be a tough nut to crack either way. however, that only leaves him barely enough points for an HQ and two small troop squads. The rest of his list will not be very threatening.

Meph.

So is the ghaz build even viable or is he smoking crack? He claims that if I ram with the wagon, then disembark, waaagh! and charge ghaz should pop the tank with no help. All of the builds scare me with the lack of boyz, but his lack of marines should make it more manageable.

he eats up as many points as the tank. Make sure you can get ghazkgul to the tanks safely, but with 2 up armor it might not be a problem

I had some advice for yet another build.
Here are the three builds I am looking at, which would actually work best?

LIST1
HQ
Big mek kff pk 110

Troops
10 gretchin with runtherd 40
10 gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy Support
3 killa kanz with 1 rokkit, 2 x kmb 160
3 killa kanz with rokkitz 150
500

LIST2
Ghazhkull Thraka

Troops 159
14 boys nob pk 119
10 gretchin runtherd 40

Heavy support 115
Battlewagon deffrolla big shoota
499

LIST3
HQ 110
Big Mek PK KFF

Troops 164
14 boyz, nob pk bp 124
10 gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy support 225
2 Killa kanz rokkitz 100
Battlewagon deff rolla, kannon, heavy shoota 125

First one. Loose the rokkits/kmb, get only big shootas. Rokkits will prob do nothing anyway. With the points you can get a 29/2 and a 11/1 gretchin/runtherd units.

IMO, you're being lame by tooling your list to take on his list. What if he changes it and you end up gimped anyway? Gretchin aren't good for anything but holding objectives and being meatshields.

So if you are playing in a league you don't tool your build to reflect the army you are facing?
I honestly thought that was standard oerating procedure!

I was thinking on the 6 kans anyway, we talked about it in another thread. The gretchin serve 2 purposes in this build: Hold objectives if necessary and fill two troop choices. Do gretchin give kans a cover save if they run in front of them?

I honestly do not want to be cheesy or lame, I dunno...

I could also work with a post you made a while back and do something like this. Should be fun against anything @500:
HQ
Big Mek Cybork, KFF, eavy armor 100

Troops
10 X gretchin with runtherd 40
10 X gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy Support
3 X killa kan big shootaz 120
3 X killa kan big shootaz 120
2 X killa kan big shootaz 80

On a 4 X 4 table that should bu fun to play.

Inigo Montoya wrote:I could also work with a post you made a while back and do something like this. Should be fun against anything @500:
HQ
Big Mek Cybork, KFF, eavy armor 100

Troops
10 X gretchin with runtherd 40
10 X gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy Support
3 X killa kan big shootaz 120
3 X killa kan big shootaz 120
2 X killa kan big shootaz 80

On a 4 X 4 table that should bu fun to play.

You're not very nice

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:I could also work with a post you made a while back and do something like this. Should be fun against anything @500:
HQ
Big Mek Cybork, KFF, eavy armor 100

Troops
10 X gretchin with runtherd 40
10 X gretchin with runtherd 40

Heavy Support
3 X killa kan big shootaz 120
3 X killa kan big shootaz 120
2 X killa kan big shootaz 80

On a 4 X 4 table that should bu fun to play.

You're not very nice

I changed the list up a little. I am running it tonight, I will make a battle report.

HQ 115
Big Mek pk, kff, eavy armor

Troops 145
10 gretchin with runtherd
Deff Dredd 2dccw

Heavy Support 240
3 X Killa kan with big shootas
3 X killa kan with big shootas

Should be much fun.