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This list is reworking of my all-out shooting list which I admit wasn't all that great. Now, i'm sacrificing some shooting for some combat options and decent magic.

- wizard lord [lvl4]
- Luckstone
- Holy Relic
- van horstman's speculum
- pegasus

I really love the speculum. A couple of rules questions remain for me on this one though - can he swap characteristics with a character's mount in a challenge? If he has the flaming sword of rhuin activated, will his boosted stats be swapped? At any rate, being on the pegasus allows him to set up for some nice shots with things like the burning head. I think I need the holy relic to help him against shooting... he'll be quite vulnerable regardless so care will be needed. This character will be great against a greater daemon, shaggoth, ogre tyrant and so on. For anyone that stays out of charge range all the time, that is just more shots for my cannon. The luckstone is there to save him against a miscast or help for that crucial magic phase if it comes.

- empire captain (BSB) w/full plate & shield
- griffon standard

If he goes with the spearman unit, and his unit makes a charge in tandem with the knights or flaggellants, hopefully the combat res from the griffon standard will break the enemy, allowing the other unit to run them down.

- battle wizard [lvl2]
- wizard's staff
- ring of volans

Love the ring of volans, hopefully there will come a magic phase where my wizard lord has something really nasty planned, and the enemy is low on scrolls... this is where the ring can really work havoc. Having the ring really feels like it is only worth it if you have plenty of other magic to distract the enemy, which is why i've upgraded a couple of my wizards by a level.

- battle wizard
- 1x dispel scroll [90]

Token scroll shelf

- 20x spearmen
- command group

- 10x handgunners

- 10x handgunners

- 10 crossbowmen

- 10 crossbowmen

I've taken a lot of ranged units, maybe some of them will be detachments for the speamen? Not sure on that so maybe forum readers can help. I would really prefer to out-shoot the enemy with this list so that I can try to dictate the moves of the enemy a little bit. Then hopefully get them into position for my spells and charges.

- 10x knights
- full command
- Steel Standard [290]

Pretty intense block of knights but i've gotta have something big to charge with when they get in range to stop me shooting.

- 5x outriders

More shooting here, these guys can at least position themselves somewhere out of the way so that the enemy isn't rushing towards my solitary gun line area.

- 20x flagellants
- prophet of doom [210]

Love the character of this unit, they will be handy in the latter half of the game when everyone is bogged down in combat - something I won't really be able to avoid so well.

- 2x cannons, 1x steamtank

Any more than this in the war machines department would be overdoing it I think - these guys really will put fear into the hearts of those big or armoured targets.

quick notes, you don't want your wizard lord anywhere near combat don't give him the speculum (Yes its cool but not for him)

Swordsmen beat spearmen hands down everytime

10 knights is too big, your paying 115 pts for +1 CR that disappears with 1 casualty, drop them to six make them Inner circle and give them the war banner

you dont need the prophet of doom, take another flagellant

Pistoliers have the same effective range as outriders (Move 16 shoot 8 vs shoot 24) and can always shoot, mage / warmachine hunt or march block to allow you more shooting time

put your BSB on a barded steed, the ring of Volans is useless, you need another scroll

PapaSmurf

quick notes, you don't want your wizard lord anywhere near combat don't give him the speculum (Yes its cool but not for him)

Swordsmen beat spearmen hands down everytime

put your BSB on a barded steed, the ring of Volans is useless, you need another scroll

Can you provide reasons for these comments please?

Vaul wrote:

quick notes, you don't want your wizard lord anywhere near combat don't give him the speculum (Yes its cool but not for him)

Swordsmen beat spearmen hands down everytime

put your BSB on a barded steed, the ring of Volans is useless, you need another scroll

Can you provide reasons for these comments please?

Whilst I am not the person making the comments, and I don't even play the Empire myself, I would hazard a couple of guesses...

You don't want the Wizard near combat because it restricts his magical abilities (with highly limited LOS and no ability to cast Magic Missiles) and there's always the risk of him losing combat due to SCR, breaking and running away.

Comparing damage output and survivability of Swordsmen and Spearmen can demonstrate that against something like 70% of enemies, Swordsmen fare noticably better, and it's only against about 5% that Spearmen are better. Add in the fact that Swordsmen work better on the charge and that they don't lose killing ability in combat until there are less than 5 men, as opposed to less than 10 for the Spearmen. Plus the models look better.

The BSB should go on a Barded Steed as it doesn't interfere with his ability to sit in a unit and do what he does, and it increases his save by +2 (admittedly just +1 in combat), making him more survivable and, worst case, able to go gallivanting off on his own if his block is in danger.

I don't know the Ring of Volans, so I can't comment on how good it is or isn't.

The reason for the extra Scroll is that against magic heavy armies such as Vampire Counts or certain Daemon builds, 6 Dispel Dice and 1 Scroll won't be enough to hold off their power, and you could easily end up losing simply because, despite putting lots of points into magical ability rather than fighting ability, you simply can't hold off the attrition war with their high-power magic.

In addition, even against a less magic-heavy army, the ability to just say "No" when facing a spell cast on a 12 or 13 instead of throwing four or five dice and risking a double-1 is often very useful.

And in the worst case, they don't have Wizards, but in that case the points you've put into magic should be enough to give you an advantage.

Thanks for the reasoning there.

If anyone else can comment on the Ring of Volans that would be great.

I also agree on the wizard lord not being in combat, but I like him with the speculum anyway. I think it is for scare factor more than anything - if I charge him in tandem with something else, and cast the flaming sword of rhuin with 3/4 dice before he's in combat, and a challenge goes off on something with good stats, I think that would really work.

There's no reason why having the speculum forces me to run straight into combat. Also, with a list like this I can buy all the models for it, and if it just doesn't work out, I can swap that item for something else and still have quite a playable list.

Ring of Volans because its a one shot item, doomfire ring is better because you get it every turn and it forces your opponent to either dispel it increasing the chances for your other magic or take some casualties which with a shooty army is what your looking for. Sure you may get uber spell of doom from whatever lore but its just a bound item, one scroll and its done.

Barded warhorse gives +2 AS all the time and just looks cool (Flying grim reaper FTW)

I say no to the speculum on the wizard lord because he could take the rod of power for the same points and that will make him more dangerous in the magic phase.

PapaSmurf

swordsmen are better than spearmen from what I gather because of the higher ws and 4+ save (the extra s3 attacks... I mean what are they going to do really? you want the core unit to just stay around and take damage not deal it imo).

Speculum is better on a cheap throw away character imo and you can devote the mage lord to having a more hefty magic phase.

Outriders are really spiffy, on a side note. They really add a lot in the shooting phase. Also, with handgunner units, I would definately add hotchland long rifles and have 4 units of handgunners.

Quoth:
I also agree on the wizard lord not being in combat, but I like him with the speculum anyway. I think it is for scare factor more than anything - if I charge him in tandem with something else, and cast the flaming sword of rhuin with 3/4 dice before he's in combat, and a challenge goes off on something with good stats, I think that would really work.
Finis:

Alright, it's important to note that this is a wishlist, not a plan. If you fly a wizard Lord into combat, they won't let you cast Flaming Sword of Rhuin on yourself. I mean, you wouldn't let this go off against you, right? If they stop nothing else they'll stop this one. Further, they are going to see the Speculum coming if a Wizard charges their Lord's unit. Their champ will take your Wizard Lord's challenge, while their Lord attacks whatever came in in tandem.

That's not to say, as per previous posters, that this can't work, but you are confusing two ideas.

#1: Flying Speculum user is good.

True. This is an invaluable tool for warding off Bloodthirsters and the like. I recommend a Hero.

#2: Wizard Lord is good.

False. What you want here is the Arch Lector on War Altar (Popemobile). In conjunction with the Stank he's what makes Empire gunlines work. The two of them play goalie extremely well.

Also, the Imperial Banner is a much better banner for your BSB than the Griffin standard, since Empire infantry lose to everyone.