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I've been away from the 40k for a while (since the the new edition was released). I use to play with a Mech list...something like Harlies in Falcon, Fire Prism, a Jetseer, Warp Spiders and a couple of Dire Avengers.

Now that I have decided to back...I'm struggling with the new rules and army building. I'v tried Avatar Fearless bubble, Full Mech/Reserve list...and I'm tryng to get a balance with a Hammer/Anvil

I've lost ate least 3 games because game ends at Turn5... while I was aiming at 6th turn objective grabbing... It is frustrating...reall y frustrating!

I'm starting to think that "go in 2nd" is the way to go... in addition a Autarch will help against that Daw of War deployment, Daemons and Drop pods/Deepstriking Armies.

This is my curren list:

1 Farseer (HQ) @ 80 Pts
Doom

5 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 190 Pts
1 Wave Serpent
Linked Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stone

9 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 270 Pts
Exarch, Blade storm, 2x ASC
1 Wave Serpent
Linked Missile Launchers
Spirit Stone

9 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 270 Pts
Exarch, Blade storm, 2x ASC
1 Wave Serpent
Linked Missile Launchers
Spirit Stone

10 Guardian Defender Squad (Troops) @ 95 Pts
Scatter Laser (x1)

10 Guardian Defender Squad (Troops) @ 95 Pts
Scatter Laser (x1)

1 Wraithlord (Heavy Support) @ 155 Pts
Flamer (x2); Bright Lance (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)

1 Wraithlord (Heavy Support) @ 155 Pts
Flamer (x2); Bright Lance (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Holo-Field

Models in Army: 50

Total Army Cost: 1460

And then... thinks go tricky! I hava a couple of points left to 1750 (290pts). And was considering the following options:

A) 5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones + Autarch

B) 5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent with TL Shurican Cannon and Spirit Stones + Farseer with Fortune and RoWarding (...or maybe Guide)

C) 8 Striking Scorpions, Ex, Stalker and Power Claw with TL Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones

Hip. A gives an extra AT/FnP/ Big Bugs and Big Deamons killing plus the Autarch (with some cheap equipment like ASh Cataplut, Power Weapon and Banshee Mask/Mandblaster) wich will help that reserve roll.

Hip. B. Same AT plus Gunline support/ Psychic protection (Other Eldar, Lash, Tzeentch Daemons...)

Hip. C... Well...I get Scorpions! Great Anti-horde CC unit and with (some...) staying power (... and cool looking models!!) ;D

So, what do you think?

So what do you plan to use as your Anvils? Your Guardians and DA aren't nearly resilient enough for that, and I think you'd rather have our Wraithlords firing their Bright Lances than being tied up in combat with powerfists (where they won't last extremely long anyway).

Perhaps consider a (jet)seer council as your anvil unit. Sure, its a ton of points, but it also is not going to get killed quickly at all. It is also a bit more killy that you might expect, wounding on 2s leads to the amount of wounds dealt piling up, not to mention 3-5 destructor templates getting laid onto anything they might charge.

I also think a unit of Harlequins or Striking Scorpions would be good in here to provide a bit o punch to the list.

I'm not a fan of the flying Council... and I don't have the models!

I think I will try the Scorpions in WS ... or maybe the Scorpions + Fortuneeer ...or Harlies with a Fortuneser.

Ah, that was another comment I wanted to make that I forgot about... your Farseer. You can get great utility out of him by giving him runes and a second power. Fortune is a must because it makes your fragile units not so fragile. I like Doom or Mindwar as the second power with him. I think Doom will probably suit you better. If you find room for a second seer then consider Mindwar as a power for him. It is nice to pick off Bosspole Nobs or kill the sergeants in the units you're about to assault so you receive minimum damage in combat.

Well, Scorpions are not bad but they can't FoF.

I'd drop the Prism as a single Prism is not worth it. They better work in concert.

I suggest to include a Falcon with 6 Harlies. They provide a decent counterstrike unit and have a much longer charge range than the Scorpions.

ElSapo wrote:I'm starting to think that "go in 2nd" is the way to go... in addition a Autarch will help against that Daw of War deployment, Daemons and Drop pods/Deepstriking Armies.

In dawn of war deployment, any units that you didn't deploy at the start of the game move onto the board on the first turn, no reserve rolls needed. Now you can put them in reserve if you want (in which case the Autarch helps out) but that is a choice.

A) 5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones + Autarch

This option works if you are planning on keeping most (or all) of your army in reserve during most games. It also works well if you expect to fight a lot of nidzilla, land raider spam, or mech armies. Otherwise, you already have a decent amount of tank busting power in your army and you lack any kind of hand to hand ability.

B) 5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent with TL Shurican Cannon and Spirit Stones + Farseer with Fortune and RoWarding (...or maybe Guide)

Fortune would be a really bad idea for your second farseer. The reason is that you don't really have a target for it. The dire avengers would be the best place for it, but unless they are getting cover saves, it's just going to go to waste most of the time. Another thing to consider is that for fewer points, you could just give your first farseer an additional power. The only caveat there is that you'll have to take two farseers if you want to cast the same power twice.

C) 8 Striking Scorpions, Ex, Stalker and Power Claw with TL Scatter Laser and Spirit Stones

I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that there is a wave serpent in there? Regardless, I think this is the best of the 3 choices you have mentioned so far. The scorpions will give your some hand to hand punch that your army is really lacking. One thing you may want to consider for this squad is dropping the serpent and getting a farseer with fortune. Fortune is really helpful on units with 3+ armor saves. Just be careful not to get these guys too far out from your front lines. They need to be near the dire avengers so that they can go bail the avengers out of trouble when they end up in hand to hand.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, Scorpions are not bad but they can't FoF.

I'd drop the Prism as a single Prism is not worth it. They better work in concert.

Single Prism is not as bad as most people say. Although they work better in pairs, the lonely Prism survived every game (...true!!...). Mostly because of his long range...and most the times, my adversaries are worried with the BL/EML Wraithlords or the approaching Skimmers...

wuestenfux wrote:
I suggest to include a Falcon with 6 Harlies. They provide a decent counterstrike unit and have a much longer charge range than the Scorpions.

True. My main concern with Scorpions is the lack of FoF...

@Phoenix: I agreer with you. I need and CC unit. So, what I came with is:

A) 8 Scorpions, Ex, Claw, Stalker in a Wave Serpent (...sorry... is miss the Wave Serpent in the main list...);

B) Fortune Seer and 8 Scorpions, Ex, Claw, Stalker...or

C) Fortune Seer plus 8 Harlies, Shadowseer and Troupe Master (and a couple of kisses...).

A Wave Serpent will give to the Scorpions the mobility they lack (and I always can deploy the Scorpions and shoot things with the Scatter Laser!), while a FortuneSeer will increase the survivability of both units while a second Seer (or Shadowseer will...) will help the Wraightsight.

I played a game today against Daemons with 8 Scorpions, Ex, Claw, Stalker in a WS with TL Scatter Laser... and I really liked the list!

It was a DoW deploy and Secure and Control mission...and I did very well! It was a fast game with 2nd turn charges (...Daemon bomb...) .

The 2 Wraithlords+2Guardians+Doom make a good static firebase and the "Assalut Wave" does the work!

The Inv Sv 4+ of the Keeper or Sv3+/Inv 5+ of the Daemon Prince isn't enough to stop the volume of fire I can throw to them and the T8 Wraithlord are great to finnish them! The Brightlance and Firedragons trash Soul Grinders and the Dire Avengers + Scorpions shatter everything that the daemons have (...even plagebearers!)!

I think that scorpions really need the Wave Serpent to give them some mobility (that other CC aspects have) and they are great with the new edition assault rules. You must stay in CC to survive the adversarie turn of shooting. And the today SM configuration of 5 man tactical squad...Banshees or Harlies will kill the hole squad...and die faster in the soothing phase. Scorpions will kill 4 MEQ (not using the Exarch Claw) and stay locked in CC..and survive longer with a Sv3+... and hopefully, survive to repeat the process!

So, bottom line, I'll go for option C! ;D