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A friend of mine has a pure greyknights force ; no stormtroopers at all . I think he may add them though.

Other than a 3 raider spam list it seems it can be very difficult to use this army to a effective level ; yes ally etc.. can produce good results but a pure Greyknight force seems difficult at best to creat.


Maybe I am missing something though; the list at face value looks good ; but when encountering other armies it just seems to fall apart. Especially versus armoured.

So what are some ways to effectively use a pure greyknight list; with Greyknights and Stormtroopers?

A minimum point of 1500 to 2000 still doesn't leave a lot of room.

Without landraiders you cannot bust tanks at range.

Dreadnoughts cannot stand up to other races anti-armour enough to tow the line here.

Without Landraiders, Knights lose what little competetiveness they have.

Of course I'm talking about PURE Grey Knight forces here, ones that feature 90% of their troopers from the PAGK selection. Its possible to do DAEMONHUNTERS lists WITH grey knights also featuring stormtroopers, allied sisters and the like.

However, if your friend is doing Grey Knights, and wants to really minimise any troopers BUT PAGK...his only avenue for anti-tank will be landraiders....its a fact of life.

Sorry, but GREY KNIGHT forces of 1500-1850 feature 2 LR's minimum if they want any sort of competetiveness in them at all.

I mean Imperial Stormtroops with meltas wouldn't work?

They do work, but they arent that dependable.

Thing is about stormtroopers, you get like ONE shot...then your opponent realizes that they're too dangerous to allow to live. They then die like guardsmen normally do...easily.

If you bring MANY units of them to make up for their fragility, well, then you arent playing a Grey Knight list anymore because they compete for Troops slots.

Dont get me wrong, I love stormtroopers, and use them frequently in my sisters and am starting to incorperate them in minimal amounts with my Knights. (objective grabbing mainly) They are no good however as your primary tank-busting unit. You'd be better off using a dreadnought and like I said...they cannot tow the line.

If you want to play Grey Knights with any sort of competetive attitude, you simply MUST bring the landraiders. Not doing so is sort of like using space marines but not bringing a single model with power armour and instead using all scouts. Its a quaint idea, but ultimately it will fail.

Yeah ; I don't know I dont play them just seems there ought to be something in the list to kind of make up for the damn no anti tank.


There doesn't seem to be much choice though.

You should use Meltagun equipped stormtroopers inside a rhino, your also not took into consideration the Inquisitor Lord shooty build.

Also you don't spam LR's, thats bad. Take one or two and use them well, it'll open up other units to be used aswell.

deadshane is totally right.

I've tried a bunch of things in our local league. At the end of the day, LR spam is the only thing that even comes close to working.

At 1750 2 land raiders isn't that spammy, so don't feel cheesy. The real jerks have 4.

Mike Leon wrote:deadshane is totally right.

I'm blushing!

Would allying sisters with anti-tank weaponry count for anything? I'm thinking a tank jumper Cannoness(see M&P forum),and maybe a squad of Seraphim with melta bombs, or something like that.

Vindicare could help, with the Turbo-Penetrator and all...

The only prob with adding in the Sisters, is that he said his buddy played a pure GK force.

With a pure GK force, you really do need the LRs to be effective..sad but true.

Well then, I obviously won't be playing pure GKs, because I'm not a fan of tanks.

So, would the tank jumping sisters work? 18 inch movement when they get in there, and 5 melta bombs per squad will probably leave a dent in something, not to mention a cannoness with an eviscerator and faith could easily rip apart anything short of a monolith fairly easily.

Rather than Meltabombs, two with (twin-linked) Inferno Pistols, VSS with Evicerator and Canoness with Evicerator would be more effective. Just do not expect to take out more than one, maybe two tanks. This unit will get wailed on pretty hard and generally dies in one turn.

Really then, it's not quite worth it unless you pop a really big tank then... 320 points for a 5 man unit and a cannoness that'll only take one tank each doesn't seem too worthwhile unless those two tanks happen to be landraiders or something of the like. Not to mention that 3 faith points can only be stretched so far...

There is the 3 Dreadnought option, if tanks aren't doing it for you. Functionally, you can take 2 Dreads in place of a Land Raider, and the extra points saved when buying the third Dread can be dumped into Terminators with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields. That's about the best you can do without taking Land Raiders in a pure GK army.

On the other hand, you can take as many troops as you can with, and have 1 or 2 as fast units with psycannons (mini-purg squads). They can deep strike behind vehicles and have an excellent chance of downing rear AV in the 10-12 range.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:There is the 3 Dreadnought option, if tanks aren't doing it for you. Functionally, you can take 2 Dreads in place of a Land Raider, and the extra points saved when buying the third Dread can be dumped into Terminators with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields.

Uhm, these would be the sucky GK stormshields, not the new, improved SM stormshields. And ripping off excellent S6 weapon just to go to S8 isn't worth it imho.

@OP
So how can GK do ranged anti-tank?
* LR: Only if you're willing to use them, Deadshane1 is right.
* Dreadnoughts: At lower levels only
* Sister allies with multimeltas or meltas: If you want to use allies, you'll have to accept that the army plays differently
* Inquisitors with multimelta-servitors: Sadly, they need mobility, which again means LR
* Stormtroopers with meltas firing from chimeras (2 firepoints) or rhinos (1 firepoint): Short range, weak vehicles

There is something to mention. The army is Daemonhunters, not grey knights. So there are things in the codex that are meant for taking down tanks, its just that those things are not Grey Knights.
I play almost 'pure' grey knights with the exception of adding an inquisitor and an assassin. I agree that raiders are going to do the job best, although I have had plenty of success with multiple dreadnoughts being my tank busters. And a handful of thunderhammers work well for large tanks. Your regular grey knights str 6 now works wonders against regular vehicles, fighting rear armor of 10 usually means messed up tanks. The problem is getting there intact.

So just so you know, playing grey knights pure is purposefully limiting yourself for the fun of playing a fluffy elite army. Know those limits and you can do well, ignore them and you will fall helplessly into buckets of losses.

oh the one inquisitor i use is armed with a combimelta, for that one hopeful shot of wrecking a tank, and its quite unexpected.

what about termiantors with chainfist?

I played by Sisters vs. pure GN. He has 2 landraiders, 1 being a crusader. They gave me problems the whole game. With out the Exorcist, I would not have anything except infantry with melta guns to handle the LR. It took a Lot of shooting to get 1 LR out of action.
Land raiders are the way to go with a DH army. You need more than 1, to split the attacking firepower.

Tierlieb wrote:
Uhm, these would be the sucky GK stormshields, not the new, improved SM stormshields. And ripping off excellent S6 weapon just to go to S8 isn't worth it imho.

He's right. I tried this too. The story ends with me tearing off the hammers and putting the S6 weapons back on.

You also need to understand that LR aren't just necessary for anti-tank abilities. You need them to transport your knights. You can't take rhinos. If your GK army is footslogging, they are going to go nowhere and take way more casualties than if they were in a raider.

Mike Leon wrote: At the end of the day, LR spam is the only thing that even comes close to working.

At 1750 2 land raiders isn't that spammy, so don't feel cheesy. The real jerks have 4.

Any number of land raiders is acceptable in a pure GK army. Take four without fear of being labelled, if you think you need to. Pure GK have such an uphill battle they need all the help they can get. Spamming Land Raiders for vanilla SM is another matter entirely.

A little bit offtopic but since we are discussing grey knight Landraiders. Do they get machine spirits like the sm ones?

Accoring to the so-called "5th edition FAQ

Machine Spirit: A Land Raider or Land Raider
Crusader can fire one more weapon than would
normally be permitted. In addition, this weapon
can be fired at a different target unit to any other
weapons, subject to the normal rules for
shooting. Therefore, a weapon that has moved at
combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land
Raider that has either moved at cruising speed, or
has suffered a ‘Crew Stunned’ or ‘Crew Shaken’
result can fire a single weapon.

Assault Vehicle: Models disembarking from any
access point on the Land Raider can launch an
assault on the turn they do so.

LR spam honestly seems the most pure GK way to go.

These guys are the elite of the elite of the elite. They get whatever they want like spoiled little warmongering children.

So why not let them spam the board with LRs? It's the only pure GK way to go.

I use an Inquisitor 3 multi melta servitors and 2 scribes, put them in cover and they get the anti tank job done.

Now, my suggestions might not be as useful as others here, as the nearest FLGS is an hour away, so I don't play tournaments, and really only fight against my roommates (who field Orks, Necrons, Nids, SM, and Chaos) So I've never needed a really strong anti-tank. But I do have some anti-tank.
I typically field one Dread with a missile launcher and autocannon, and another with the DCCW and Lascannon w/ HK missile.
So far, between good positioning of these two, I've had relatively good results versus armor. (though I'm typically blasting dreads and battlewagons.)
One of my roommates suggested, and I don't know how well this would work, adding Melta-bombs to the Justicars.

As it stands, a standard GK assaulting almost any non-LR vehicle will be attacking AV 10 (monoliths not included. I think of them as hellish, hellish terrain. )
With their S6, that means that out of a squad of let's say 4 GK (I typically field 8, so I've lost half just getting to the vehicle) and let's assume the vehicle moved 6".
on the charge, 8 attacks, 4 hit, 1.33 pen, .66 glance.
So if you know no one in your area's going to field LRs or other high rear armor vehicles, try taking some FAGK and assaulting when they least expect it.