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An alternative to my previous army list ( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225472.page ). Wonder which one you would point out as better.

HQ
Big Mek /w SAG and ammo runt 98pts
Warboss /w pk attack squig, cybork body and a bosspole 115pts

Elites
14 lootas (BM escort) 210pts

Troops
12 Boyz (nob /w pk and bosspole) + trukk /w red paint job and wreckin' ball 165pts
12 Boyz (nob /w pk and bosspole) + trukk /w red paint job and wreckin' ball 165pts
10 Nobz 7x big choppa, 2x pk, 1 waaagh! banner, painboy, all cybork body + trukk /w red paint job and wreckin' ball 430pts (accompained by warboss)

Fast Attack
20 stormboyz + Zagstruk 325pts

That would do 1502 pts or 1497 depending on the source of warboss' cybork body (from painboy he gets it 5 points cheaper) but it's not that important.
This army list would drop bikes for more lootas and really packed Nobz . Either way in numbers both lists should be about the same. This list has less scoring abilities but possibly much larger bashin capabilities
So what are your opinions on that matter?

You have to put reinforced rams on your trukks!

Agree with Olympia; you have to have Reinforced Rams on every trukk. Heck, it should be mandatory like a Rhino has Smoke Launchers.

Personally, I wasn't too thrilled with a SAG mixed in with my Loota squad. It was nearly overkill. I understand the reroll w/ a bosspole, but I just was never fond of it. However, it was one of the few ways to reliably get a SAG in an army w/o it getting quickly shot to death. But, it does appear the true strength of your army is racing forward in trukks. I'd be tempted to dropp the Lootas altogether, get a Battlewagon and put Burna Boyz in there. Then, I'd get a Mek with KFF to help protect it.

Regarding Cybork Body; I don't see how your Painboy in your Nob squad can provide cheap Cybork body for the Warboss. You'd pay the points based on what the Warboss section states.

I've not played with Stormboyz yet, but the new models look fantastic. I'm not sure if Zaggstrukk is worth it. A Nob with Powerklaw is less points, but also strikes last. Does Zagstrukk get the S8 attack every turn? I don't have my codex available, so it's hard for me to make a fair comparison.

I've played a few games with a combination shooty and assault, but it can have some bad matchups. Try it out and see how you like it. Good luck.

Reinforced rams are so useful? Maybe you're right.
Well as long as warboss would be in painboys unit then he can get cybrok body for 5 points. I guess.
Zagstruk has a power weapon at normal initiative in the first charge after deep striking and his ws is really decent and so is initiative besides I personally think that deep strike is very, very useful. Tried it once and it really saved my ass.

Konini wrote:Reinforced rams are so useful? Maybe you're right.
Well as long as warboss would be in painboys unit then he can get cybrok body for 5 points. I guess.
Zagstruk has a power weapon at normal initiative in the first charge after deep striking and his ws is really decent and so is initiative besides I personally think that deep strike is very, very useful. Tried it once and it really saved my ass.

Only with Mad Doc Grotsnik can you give a warboss a cybork body for 5 points.
Also, if you want to hide the SAG in a mob--use 19 gretchin and 1 runherder--67 points!

Thanks for correcting me.
And what if somebody deep strikes and kills all the gretchin and SAG? Or something similar? Besides removing this loota squad won't give me enough points to put something intresting in that place. Assuming SAG will be in that gretchin mob I have only ~150pts left.

Remember, gretchin are a scoring unit. That's why I use them with my SAG. Sure they are vulnerable to a deep-striking unit--but what isn't? There's nothing wrong with the lootas. If you are going to drop them they should be replaced with a scoring unit.

So you suggest not necessarily droping all the lootas but at least some of them for a little gretchin scoring squad? But how do you use it for scoring when SAG needs to be stationary to shoot? It sound to me that these two rule each other out. But i'm not the experienced player so please explain.

My only issue with the sag in the loota squad is this:
I recently had the upper hand in a game vs daemon hunters. It was a killpoint game and I was up 3-0 in turn 4. He hammered a squad of shootas and got a killpoint. I had another mob of 30 charging the next turn.

Shooting phase - shoot sag/lootas at his remaining termies to soften them up before the mob charges.
Roll 2 and 2 with the mek. He chooses my ready-to-charge unit as the target. The sag alone wouldn't have been so bad, but I rolled a 5 for the lootas and since he was attached I had to shoot my mob with not only an AP4 pie plate but 45 loota shots. Yea, that sucked. I will not quit using the sag, but I WILL quit attaching it to a loota squad.

Wow yeah. That must have sucked. Good Point. But with ammo runt you have a chance to avoid it. And a chance of two such rolls in a game is small.
But of course you never know what might happen.
My friend was trying once to get his SM bike sargeant out of enemy's (tau) firing range. He got wounded 3 times. All three saving throws were 's :/
It all depends on luck and certain situations. Last game I was playing 750 pts SAG with lootas did quite a nice job sitting relaxed in woods shooting each larger concentration of enemy troops.
Though rolls for str weren't very amusing. Usually 4,2 5,1. Couldn't get it higher. They still did nice.

So back to my list. Should I reduce the ammount of lootas, sperate them from SAG and put SAG into a gretchin mob? Or maybe get rid of lootas and think of something else?

I always take lootas to answer meq. I hadn't thought of the ammo runt, that may be a few points well spent. There are two big +s to moving him out of the squad though - the bad rolls don't effect the lootas and he can shoot at a different target.

Yeah however then it's easier to take him down. He's more vulnerable.

Ok so following your advise this is what I ended up with.

HQ
Big Mek /w SAG and ammo runt 98pts
Warboss /w pk attack squig, cybork body and a bosspole 115pts

Elites
8 lootas 120pts

Troops
12 Boyz (nob /w pk and bosspole) + trukk /w red paint job, reinforced ram and wreckin' ball 167pts
12 Boyz (nob /w pk and bosspole) + trukk /w red paint job, reinforced ram and wreckin' ball 167pts
10 Nobz 7x big choppa, 2x pk, 1 waaagh! banner, painboy, all cybork body + trukk /w red paint job, reinforced ram and wreckin' ball 435pts (accompained by warboss)
20 gretchin (1 runtherd) 70pts <- SAG unit

Fast Attack
20 stormboyz + Zagstruk 325pts

And it should add up to 1497. And how's that? Playable? Reasonable? Makes any sense at all?

Zagstruck isn't very good and this is one of the few armies where stormboyz don't really need a deepstrike since they can get cover behind the trukks. Get rid of Zagstruck and just run a nob with a powerklaw instead.

Lootas are great but I insist on redundancy with them. Try to run a minimum of 2 units if they are going to be in your list. TBH this is one of those lists where they really don't synergize all that well so I'd probably just drop them completely.

I'd swap the SAG for a KFF and put the Big Mek in one of the trukks to give them all 4+ cover saves.

I'd also add a unit of buggies with TL rockitts to run behind the trukks also gaining 4+ cover saves.

In lists like these I recommend putting at least one troop in the army to hang back on your side of the table to camp objectives. This can either be a grot unit or a shoota boy unit that sits in cover. You have the points to add 20 shoota boyz with big shootas if you drop the lootas.

So this is the quick and dirty version:

HQ

Big Mek KFF
Warboss PK Bosspole Cybork

Troops

12 Slugga Boyz Nob PK w Trukk Red Paint, Reinforced Ram
11 Slugga Boyz Nob PK w Trukk Red Paint, Reinforced Ram
10 Nobz Cyborks PK x2, Waagh banner, Big Choppa, w Trukk Red Paint, Reinforced Ram
20 Shoota Boyz Nob PK Big Shoota x2

Fast Attack

20 Stormboyz Nob PK
3 War Buggies TL Rockitt Red Paint

In codex it says that KFF gives 5+ cover save not 4+ :/

Konini wrote:In codex it says that KFF gives 5+ cover save not 4+ :/

To non vehicles.

Vehicles in cover get a 4+ save which is why I never run vehicles without a KFF in any of my lists. It's too good to pass up.

Ah I see. Thanks for that info. Will come in handy and now I must seriously consider droping SAG. Seems like 4+ cover for vehicles is much more tempting

you could push a litlle around and get a gruop of gretchin to take the bullets for the big mek

Yeah so he won't get shot down real quick. Thanks for all your advise. Still, any thoughts you could share are welcome. The more I learn from you the less I'll have to learn on my own mistakes

@kevins thought of dropping lootas all together ... even one squad is useful for popping rhinos and other transports to give the boys somethign to charge. All mech lists sometimes presetn a problem if you have zero shooting to open the transports.

My speed freaks list uses one loota squad and they can almsot always be counted on to open up a rhino that was hoping youd have to charge into it to open it up.

I don't use the SAG though, so no comments on him. KFF Mek in a battle wagon and a warboss in one of the three trukks for me.

Meph

Mephistoles1 wrote:@kevins thought of dropping lootas all together ... even one squad is useful for popping rhinos and other transports to give the boys somethign to charge. All mech lists sometimes presetn a problem if you have zero shooting to open the transports.

This is a fair point. I don't use lootas in my mech lists because I'm running 3 battlewagons with Deff Rollas so I just run over Land Raiders and crush them and clean up the Terminators inside. Without deff rolllas though? I suppose a case for lootas could be made, although I did recommend Rockitt Buggies which can serve the same purpose. Lootas aren't killing Land Raiders regardless.