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When I had finished playing in third and restrted in fifth I see that most of the Eldar armies seem to lean toward either A. Wraithlord Monstrous B. Seer Councils. My play style doesnt really fit either as I dont ultimately think they are over all effective except in very high point values or against very specific Rock Paper Scissors match ups.


The basic idea behind the glass cannon is incredible fire power but with low armor and weak on H t H.


Something akin to


Farseer Guide Fortune

Farseer Guide



Elites

7 man + Exarch Fire Dragon w/ Wave Serpent
7 man as above

troops
10 man Dire Avenger Bladestorm w/ Wave Serpent
10 man DireAvenger Bladestorm w/ Wave Serpent

8 man Pathfinder



Fast Attack
10 man Warpspider w/ Exarch withdrawal
10 man Warpspider w/ Exarch withdrawal


H. Support

3 Warwalkers Scatter Laser

3 Warwalkers w/ Scatter Laser

5 man D. Reaper Squad

I was interested overall with the army and how it would perform. It seems tro be overall decent but I am unsure of it.

Adding it up with available range and ability to fire in

Warwalkers + Warpspiders give you 48@ Bal3 ; 44 @ Bal4, 92 STR 6 shots
Dire Avengers 68 @ Bal 4; ST4 shots
D. Reapers 10 @ STR5
Fire Dragons @ 16 BS4 at STR8


The basic Strategy is to pick which you would be guiding that turn and then moving it 12 deploying and then firing w/ Wave serpents and Deployment you should be able to any each type of deployment fire at something within your opponents field. Whether its 48 ST6 Reroll.

As for Tanks other than Landraiders the army has good tank busting ability with the mobility of WarpSpiders ability to deepstrike.

I made something like that awhile back, have a look.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/223171.page#453277

I have found that eldar, at least the style that I played, are significantly less effective than they were before.

I think this can be chalked up to a few key points:

1) Our CC units are pricy - typically moreso than what we might hit with them. Under the old rules, we could move on to another unit - now, we can slaughter what we aim at, but lose the unit to shooting immediately afterwards. And, it's rare that the points-exchange favours the eldar this way.

2) Skimmers got nerfed, 'armour values' got buffed, and TLoS happened. With the highest armour in the army sitting at 12, and the inability to actually hide a tank anymore on nearly any table I've played on since the 5th ed release, I lose skimmers left and right now. When you're paying points for transports that will get your assets where they need to be reliably, and they no longer do that, you're going to struggle.

As a result, eldar armies that don't have to worry about these things (Wraith-armies don't typically run skimmers or fragile CC units, Seer Councils are as resilient as you get in the eldar list) are more competative now, and the other stuff just isn't.

We can use our troops to do alot of the jobs (if not all) that elite/fast attack choices are normally required to do.

We need to work harder to keep troops alive. Theres five hardie infantry choices.. jetbikes, spyders, wraithguard, scorpains and the seer council. Probably in that order too, with farseer support (which isnt really possible w/ the spyders hence them being the least hardy).. taking into concideration point costs aswell.

One of those is a troop choice & not too cheap, another can be at 381pts/unit. (So yea.. glass pewgun troops )

Pew is avialible in spades so making the other guy die quicker is quite doable. As is being attempted above.

I'm building a fairly "glass" eldar army, but not to be "effective" but just because I think it's fun and different.

Eldar transports are still very reliable, they're just no longer unkillable. Wave serpants still have the energy shield and the ability to move 24" or even 36". As long as you keep moving you get a 4+ cover save too. Holo Falcons are still a pain to kill, the problem is they just don't have anything worth carrying anymore.

I kind of look at warpspiders as mobile ScatterLasers honestly; with the ability to move as much as they do then you have a unit that can have 22 STR6 shots with ballistic o 4 and 5 respectively.


I also do not understand at all why people do not take fulkl ten man units of Fire Dragons. Their pretty much a definitition of Glass Cannon.

Wave Serpents are excellent at transporting Fire Dragons and when bought for Dire Avengers they count as troop choices.


Wave serpents are still difficult to kill now ; depending on your ability to go first or second.


I think what hurts this army the most is going second really. I mean its highly mobile has a good solid firebase.

For tank hunting I honestly was thinkinng something like.


3 Warlocks on Bikes with Singing spears.

Hollismason wrote:
I also do not understand at all why people do not take fulkl ten man units of Fire Dragons. Their pretty much a definitition of Glass Cannon.

I think you answered your own question.

Exactly, 10 fire dragons aren't much tougher than 5, and they don't have the benefit of 18" range that Dire Avengers do.

Well, I still run 10 man FD squads.

But, I don't do it for tanks. I field them be cause I constantly have to deal with Nurgle PM lists, and Nob lists. 10 Melta shots eat through FNP, and the 160 points that I trade for them are well worth it

Hollismason wrote: When I had finished playing in third and restrted in fifth I see that most of the Eldar armies seem to lean toward either A. Wraithlord Monstrous B. Seer Councils. My play style doesnt really fit either as I dont ultimately think they are over all effective except in very high point values or against very specific Rock Paper Scissors match ups.

The basic idea behind the glass cannon is incredible fire power but with low armor and weak on H t H.
Something akin to...

I was interested overall with the army and how it would perform. It seems tro be overall decent but I am unsure of it.

While this army pack a lot of punch, like you say, it is a glass cannon. The simple fact is that these days, you have to move and either contest or control objectives. This army will do fine as killing off contestors from the other side, but it's going to have issues controling objectives itself. Modern eldar armies are tricky business because of this. Units like wraithgaurd are about the only tough thing that the eldar can field to actually control objectives. After that it falls to jetbikes and units in wave serpents. This fact combined with the addition of run and the prevelence of 4+ cover leads to an environment where it becomes difficult to function with units that can't stand up to some beating.

Warwalkers with scatterlasers are pretty hard to take down if they are within cover, Fourtuned, & Guided.

2 squads of 3 will kill about anything they fire on.

The problem I see is that it does not have enough anti tank.


I think going with the 10 man fire Dragons wave serpent works because it helps to deal with Nob bikers.


Actually looking at the list it has 5 scoring units; Wave Serpents purchased as troop count as troops.


The whole point is to annihilate or be able to annihilate key components of your enemies army on the very first turn wtih guide.

20 melta shots pretty effectively neuters most marine squads.

The reason i like the warwalkers with Scatter Lasers is because of the new rules of cover saves they're tall enough to get LOS on back units such as Shoota boys.

Warp Spiders are pretty enjoyable as well. For being able to deepstrike. That and i just enjoy Warpspiders. Used in tandem 2 squads of ten can put hurt on most anything.

Hollismason wrote:

Actually looking at the list it has 5 scoring units; Wave Serpents purchased as troop count as troops.

They may count as troops but they don't count as scoring. Check your Base rule book Page 90, a vehicle can't count as scoring units.

The infantry troop-choices can score/claim/contest objectives from inside a tank.

A tank (reguardless of what type & along with anything else - bar swarms) can contest objectives only.

Hollismason was right about the lack of anti-tank. The dragons do this fine but you have abserloutely no way to counter mobile tanks like hammerheads or other prisms/predators. Massed scatter lasers could effect AV 12, along with spyders vs rear armor.. Soo, with that in mind your actually not doing too badly. 22 str 6 vs side/rear armor = dead tank.

Dark reapers arent needed if youve got that many scatter lasers and spyders. More war-walkers with EML's

Looks good. Contrary to popular tactics i dont run a seer council. Why...Daemon Hunters +Psy Cannon, That's just me though. One of the main opponents i play uses some 2 or three and will pick out them and fire out with 3 shots each. My fire dragons so far has the highest earned/cost value in the group i play in, Pop a LR each game and go on to mop up some more MEQ/Crisis Suites, there worth their keep and no, don't run 10 in a squad. They will kill 2 three big things and die either. Use them well, Earn their keep, then accept the loss. Wave Serpents can be great to keep Mobs of Boyz back or dead. Shoot off gun or Tank shock. Watch out for Powerklaw V 12 Armor. When the going gets Tough RAM. you can get a s10 hit with it if you move flat out and hit something, not a great option but if you must...you must, and you can only get up to 8S hit back form that, so 4+ glancing, 5+ pen. U stand an ok chance at walking/flying away, then just Star engine back into cover if you can. good setup you got though.

I like dark reapers as they terrify a lot of armies to the point of focusing everything they can.

I had considered placing Twin Link Bright Lances on the Wave Serpents, but really wanted to go with Shuriken Cannons.


If I eliminated the Dark Reapers I guess a few squads of Guardians with Bright Lances would be alright.

I am sticking with 4 wave serpents as going second I can screen 3 Wave Serpents with 1 wave serpent. Hard to describe, but it does work. I guess the best way is to say place one upfront; two behind it and then the 4th behind those two so it looks like it makes a diamond shape.

It effectively screens 3 out of 4.