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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Have you met thousand sons post codex? as they have and alot of psychic phase pain.
If your relying on aura buffs it's even more deadly.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Primark G wrote:
stratigo wrote:
the five up invul save really doesn't give marines a massive benefit. It is a fair amount of points, and you'd have to fit it in a detachment. It's, to me, sort of a filler if you have points to spare when adding in a supreme command, or if you need cheapish filler for a vanguard.


Wrong the 5++ is huge compared to no save whatsoever.


If the enemy is shooting a dark lance or melta gun at marines, well, either things are going very right or very wrong for you.

Note, the invul is only for infantry, so you can't protect the things that would REALLY benefit from a five up invul

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/11 13:27:53


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

It has helped my Hellblasters and Inceptors several times.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




What do you guys think about the Land Raider Excelsior? I played it a couple of times tagged along a rhino primaris with my Salamanders, of course being the warlord with 6+++, +1 Wound and the cloak for +1 T. With T9 W17 S2+/5++/6+++ and techmarines after a some games people just ignore it for being unable to crack it. But with all extras (the most important being the multi melta) it costs 478 pts.

Here's my list with the Excelsior

1750 pts, Salamanders

Batallion
Land Raider Excelsior: Combiplasma, Hunter killer missile, Multi-melta, Storm bolter, Warlord: Iron Resolve, Relic: Mantle of the Salamander
Rhino Primaris
5 scouts, sergeant with storm bolter
5 scouts, sergeant with storm bolter
5 scouts, sergeant with storm bolter
Vanguard
Techmarine: Chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
Vanguard
Techmarine: Chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
Vanguard
Techmarine: Chainsword and storm bolter
Contemptor with Multi-melta
Contemptor with Multi-melta
Contemptor with Multi-melta

This have any sense? It worked for me.
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Zorninsson wrote:
What do you guys think about the Land Raider Excelsior? I played it a couple of times tagged along a rhino primaris with my Salamanders, of course being the warlord with 6+++, +1 Wound and the cloak for +1 T. With T9 W17 S2+/5++/6+++ and techmarines after a some games people just ignore it for being unable to crack it. But with all extras (the most important being the multi melta) it costs 478 pts.

Here's my list with the Excelsior

1750 pts, Salamanders

Batallion
Land Raider Excelsior: Combiplasma, Hunter killer missile, Multi-melta, Storm bolter, Warlord: Iron Resolve, Relic: Mantle of the Salamander
Rhino Primaris
5 scouts, sergeant with storm bolter
5 scouts, sergeant with storm bolter
5 scouts, sergeant with storm bolter
Vanguard
Techmarine: Chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
Vanguard
Techmarine: Chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
2 Company veterans with chainsword and storm bolter
Vanguard
Techmarine: Chainsword and storm bolter
Contemptor with Multi-melta
Contemptor with Multi-melta
Contemptor with Multi-melta

This have any sense? It worked for me.


Ok I know I'm not a competitive player, but this list seems...strange ? Do the several 2 men squad work ? I would be quite interested in hearing about your list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/11 21:35:11


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




They really shouldn't have given the excelicor the charictor keyword it makes no sence
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Primark G wrote:
It has helped my Hellblasters and Inceptors several times.


I'm sure.
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight





Sticksville, Texas

But instead of the Vexilla, why not just take 2 Company Ancients? I mean, if your guys are going to die, might as well get a 50% chance to shoot or fight with them one last time instead of a 33% chance of saving the wound?

More often than not my Marines are dying to small arms fire, and not AP-3 guns (besides some Plasma). But even than, my 5 man Plasma Tacs generally find their way into cover so they are getting a 5+ save regardless.
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
But instead of the Vexilla, why not just take 2 Company Ancients? I mean, if your guys are going to die, might as well get a 50% chance to shoot or fight with them one last time instead of a 33% chance of saving the wound?

More often than not my Marines are dying to small arms fire, and not AP-3 guns (besides some Plasma). But even than, my 5 man Plasma Tacs generally find their way into cover so they are getting a 5+ save regardless.


Why not both


12,000
 
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




The veteran with assault bolters costs just 18 points and does 4 shots and 3/4 attacks with the same profile in close combat. To play with melta salamanders dreads they're nice, providing my a much needed anti infantry fire. But they're a bit slow to play, cause you must roll them separetely cause Salamanders reroll.

Veterans using this loadout costs same as intercessors, but can be delivered in transports and trade raw damage output for durability (one wound instead primaris two).
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 Klowny wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
But instead of the Vexilla, why not just take 2 Company Ancients? I mean, if your guys are going to die, might as well get a 50% chance to shoot or fight with them one last time instead of a 33% chance of saving the wound?

More often than not my Marines are dying to small arms fire, and not AP-3 guns (besides some Plasma). But even than, my 5 man Plasma Tacs generally find their way into cover so they are getting a 5+ save regardless.


Why not both

Because of points.

Nobody is saying that the Vexilla does nothing. We're saying that points would be better spent on other stuff - stuff with guns that kills the enemy.

A 5++ might save you. Killing the other guy will definitely save you. Having another guy on your team to take the bullet for you will save you and keep you alive to shoot back.

Basically, an approach of taking as many guns and bodies as possible is rarely wrong.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Now that a Reiver Sergeant can take a Bolt Carbine instead of a Heavy Bolt Pistol, but keep his Combat Blade, is Bolt Carbine and Combat Blade a better option for him?

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Now that a Reiver Sergeant can take a Bolt Carbine instead of a Heavy Bolt Pistol, but keep his Combat Blade, is Bolt Carbine and Combat Blade a better option for him?

Couldn't he always take that though?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Now that a Reiver Sergeant can take a Bolt Carbine instead of a Heavy Bolt Pistol, but keep his Combat Blade, is Bolt Carbine and Combat Blade a better option for him?

Couldn't he always take that though?
I can't remember. Maybe. Is it an okay option though?

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I'm sure it makes no difference because Reivers are going to do the same thing. The only time it will ever make a any difference is if you're playing a very small game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/12 18:06:17


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Do you get an extra attack for the combat blade? If yes then worth it.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

You certainly want the blade. I think pistol and sword is probably best for the normal guys, though it’s not a huge issue either way. Sometimes -1ap is very valuable, so the pistol isn’t much worse than the carbine. Neither does all that much really.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

I always run them with bolters when I take them. I like the range fire power.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Anybody done the math on the Redemptor weapons? thinking plasma but the dakka version could be a crazy amount of shots
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

The plasma weapon actually costs less points and has longer range. With the onslaught cannon and MOC you get 18 shots at 24 inch range (not including up to an 8" move). It really depends on what else is in your army.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Alright so I made a new list focusing slightly more on artillery. I used Huron (again) and I'll explain everything in detail of course. NOW for the list.

Brigade Detachment:
x1 Lugft Huron
x1 Librarian
. Force Staff, Bolt Pistol, no selection on powers yet
x1 Lieutenant
. Master Crafted Boltgun -> The Primarch's Wrath, Power Fist
x1 Damocles Command Rhino w/ Storm Bolter

x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma + Combat Blade
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma + Combat Blade
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma + Combat Blade
x5 Intercessors
. 1 Aux Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. 1 Aux Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. 1 Aux Grenade Launcher

x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Twin Heavy Bolter

x4 Aggressors
x4 Aggressors
x1 Whirlwind Scorpius

x1 Rapier Carrier
. Quad Launcher
x1 Rapier Carrier
. Quad Laucher
x1 Rapier Carrier
. Quad Launcher
x1 Thunderfire Cannon

This comes out to a cool 1997 points. However, what's the game plan?
Obviously the strongest Chapter Tactic outside Ultraroboute is Raven Guard, so until Forge World says otherwise my "Astral Claws" will be benefiting from a cool -1 to be hit. Aggressors will be set up via Strike From The Shadows with the Scouts to help serve as their shields. Meanwhile the Intercessors and Tarantula Guns will be the primary screen for the artillery, with the Lt., Huron, and Librarian set up where they best give out the auras. Huron will use his Big Guns Never Tire, the Damocles will use its own Orbital Bombardment, and then I use the Orbital Bombardment Strategem itself. Unfortunately the Strategem itself is pretty lackluster but being used twice in the same turn + Huron can potentially make my opponent deploy the way I would want them to deploy: not as well!

However I think the list can be improved on. For one, I don't think the Librarian would be totally necessary as a whole, as I don't feel like he will benefit much in the end, so removing him gives room for MORE Tarantula Guns. I can also remove the Damocles if the Mortal Wounds from its bombardment aren't worth it for another Thunderfire. It's very much up in the air right now but I'm curious as well, to try and get some discussion started, how you all would do a Space Marine artillery list.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Primark G wrote:
The plasma weapon actually costs less points and has longer range. With the onslaught cannon and MOC you get 18 shots at 24 inch range (not including up to an 8" move). It really depends on what else is in your army.



Plenty of dakka and plenty of AT , I run 2 dreads in every list as it is
   
Made in fr
Ship's Officer



London

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
The plasma weapon actually costs less points and has longer range. With the onslaught cannon and MOC you get 18 shots at 24 inch range (not including up to an 8" move). It really depends on what else is in your army.



Plenty of dakka and plenty of AT , I run 2 dreads in every list as it is

I think the decision comes down to what chapter the dreadnought is from. For me, the plasma optionsjffers too much from moving - which the dread often wants to do, so I prefer the Gatling. That’s doubly true as my crimson fists ignore cover, making it a decent infantry killer.

I think salamanders and iron hands could do well with the plasma option. Iron hands have a stratagem to ignore the penalty for moving. Salamanders always have a reroll available - and it feels more valuable on a plasma shot than a Gatling round.

Ultramarines certainly want the Gatling gun I think, as disengaging adds yet another -1 to hit. They are probably the only chapter that could potentially make use of a heavy flamer, to get auto-hits after falling back. That said, I’m not sure how often a redemptor will fall back from combat, so this might be irrelevant.

A ravenguard gun line could potentially use a plasma redemptor that mostly stood still for counter-assault. It’s a way to get a decent gun on a model that’s hard to hit. I think they’d probably be better off with something else though - maybe a venerable dread with twin las, or one of the forgeworld mortis options.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I had 2 games today with my new ultramarines, bought a used army for 60$ and wanted to run it as was to see how it went and what worked / what didn't.

This was my list.

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 98pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Relic blade

Chaplain [6 PL, 90pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack

Librarian [6 PL, 105pts]: 2) Might of Heroes, 6) Null Zone, Force axe, Plasma pistol

Lieutenants [4 PL, 60pts]
. . Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 96pts]
. . Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle
. . Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. . 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 179pts]
. . 7x Space Marine
. . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon
. . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 183pts]
. . 7x Space Marine
. . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

+ Elites +

Chapter Ancient [4 PL, 76pts]: Power sword

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 118pts]: Jump Pack
. . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. . Veteran Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Relic blade

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 162pts]: Heavy plasma cannon
. . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [5 PL, 88pts]: Deathwind launcher

Razorback [5 PL, 122pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon


So they were 1400 pt game's. First vs a chaos army, second vs a basic blood angels force.

I won't go into details on the games, but things I found out that I think people overlook.

Taking 10 man tactical squad, srg w/ combi plasma, 1 with plasma gun, and 1 with a heavy weapon then combat squading and putting the special and srg into the drop pod and deploying the other 5 men w/ heavy weapon as a back line objective holders / heavy weapon pot shot taker worked really well. I did it with both squads of tacticals, putting the plasma teams into the drop pod. It allowed me to drop them in at double tap range and gave me a forward pod that helped by becoming a targeting issue for my opponents. In my second game the team took out a dreadnought in one round of overcharging double tapping shooting (one of the plasma guns did explode, but it happens and they are just tacticals. Bolters helped finish it off). My opponent, the blood angels player ignored the pod after that because it's just a pod, until the end of the game when I had just the pod, the scouts, and all my Chrs left and they had 5 scouts, 3 heavy bolter devs, and 10 vets and be couldn't shoot at my Chrs because the pod was closer. It was great.

Also the vanguard vets were mearly ok. They only ever got into a single round of combat in the 2nd game before getting blown away by hellblasters but even then I think they need some storm shields to help protect against scary weapons and a full squad of 10 or something. Otherwise I think I will just take them as cheap assault marines and save the points. If they are just going to get shot at and die why spend a lot?

Overall I liked playing as ultramarines, first time in a long long time. I wonder though, if you were going to take the list to the next level with what I have what would you go with? I am liking a tank - light idea, mass infantry, but no terminators since they are so expensive for so little return. Maybe primaris? Also I am thinking of getting a calgar, I don't want Guilliman I don't think, but calgar always seemed like an interesting charecter that has been overshadowed by Guilliman in the game. Any thoughts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/05 05:00:11


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Guilliman is my go to Warlord. He’s kind of a mini version of Rowboat and he gets work done.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






 Primark G wrote:
Guilliman is my go to Warlord. He’s kind of a mini version of Rowboat and he gets work done.


...Wha???
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 ultimentra wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
Guilliman is my go to Warlord. He’s kind of a mini version of Rowboat and he gets work done.


...Wha???


presumably he means Calgar

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




At his points level: 1250pts - 1500pts, Calgar is a good take instead of the Guilliman. He is gonna save you 5 CP in total (bringing him instead of a Captain gives 2 CP, and you don't need to pay 3CP to up the Captain into a CM). Moreover, he can DS so can go with your other mobile units like Gravcannon Devastators in Droppod, or Plasma Inceptors to support them wreck havoc.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think I will get calgar then, seems like a good purchase for what he does. I don't want to go full Guilliman.

Any feelings on the command rhino? I never gave it much thought until I noticed it gets to give a +1 to hits to a squad. That may be super useful for hellblasters or a plasma cannon dev squad. Even laz cannons wound find that useful. Or is it too weak and easy a target? It does seem expensive vs a normal rhino.

I think I want my ultramarine army to be infantry based, maybe grab another drop pod to double up on the drop in and fire tactic. Scouts running forward for cover. Tacticals and devs with heavy weapons for the rest. May even do the banner / apothecary trick on a plasma cannon dev squad for the extra attacks if I blow myself up.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Lol I meant Calgar.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
 
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