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 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah. Now is not the time to tone someone down. Look at poor Vashtorr.

Who cares about Vashtorr? The Lion just came back!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is it weird that the thing I like the most is the Teleport Homer?

Nope, it's brilliant.

I'm also a big fan of the separate barrels on the storm bolters.

Ya not a fan of wird forest path stuff why not just have him do what he always does perma kill demons and be too fast to be hit/ block everthing? O and smack heads off.

Also why is the emperor's sheild so weak? Up to 3 mortals on rolls of 6??? 4++??? Lame.

His offense looks good though.

And most importantly he looks amazing.

Boosykes wrote:


Also why is the emperor's sheild so weak? Up to 3 mortals on rolls of 6??? 4++??? Lame.

Why do you think Big E stopped using it in the first point?

The very last thing to come out of 9th, Lion's profile, for the 2-3 months we'll use it before it all gets Indexed anyway.

Will be interesting to see the difference in the Index and then the eventual Dark Angels codex/supplement.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Why do you think Big E stopped using it in the first point?

Look how much of his body it covered:

I think the small shield on the emperor in the painting is meant to be a Besagew, not an actual shield. A part of the armor to protect the armpit in medieval armor. The Lion’s shield does look different too. Imho

Grzzldgamerps5 wrote:
I think the small shield on the emperor in the painting is meant to be a Besagew, not an actual shield. A part of the armor to protect the armpit in medieval armor. The Lion’s shield does look different too. Imho

That was the joke...because the emperor never uses or is even said to have a shield in any of the lore or art prior to the current era.

He had (in 3rd ed at least) the "Tempest Blade", and his powerfist/built in special storm bolter "Purity Fist/Purgator".....little hard to use a shield with that loadout.

The Emperor is depicted with a shield on the eternity gate, which I'm pretty sure is at least early 90's artwork. It could be a ceremonial thing that he never used in battle.

drbored wrote:
The very last thing to come out of 9th, Lion's profile, for the 2-3 months we'll use it before it all gets Indexed anyway.

Will be interesting to see the difference in the Index and then the eventual Dark Angels codex/supplement.

Will many people get to use those stats in 9th?
I thought I read he was coming out in a limited edition box (as per usual GW practice now), then will be released 'later'. Isn't that usually a few months? We'll be in 10th by then.

 xttz wrote:
The Emperor is depicted with a shield on the eternity gate, which I'm pretty sure is at least early 90's artwork. It could be a ceremonial thing that he never used in battle.

I assume you mean this image of a greco/roman visage of the emperor striking down the dragon of chaos.

This is interpretive art built after his internment on the golden throne. nowhere that i am aware of did he ever use(or need) a shield, ceremonial or otherwise.

The Emperor had a vault of weapons that he chose from. He had favorites, and older stuff he got better versions of over time. Remember he gave Leman Russ his old spear, and I don't remember any artwork with a spear holding Emperor.

 cuda1179 wrote:
The Emperor had a vault of weapons that he chose from. He had favorites, and older stuff he got better versions of over time. Remember he gave Leman Russ his old spear, and I don't remember any artwork with a spear holding Emperor.

Like the Primarchs and other high dignitaries, he surely got and gave a constant stream of gifts, tributes, spoils of war and the like, with a lot of wargear surely among them. He also crafted stuff himself quite regularly during the great crusade, or had it crafted specifically for the Primarchs.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

drbored wrote:
The very last thing to come out of 9th, Lion's profile, for the 2-3 months we'll use it before it all gets Indexed anyway.

Will be interesting to see the difference in the Index and then the eventual Dark Angels codex/supplement.

Will many people get to use those stats in 9th?
I thought I read he was coming out in a limited edition box (as per usual GW practice now), then will be released 'later'. Isn't that usually a few months? We'll be in 10th by then.

The people who buy the limited edition box will still be able to use him in 9th, even if it is a limited time.

 aphyon wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The Emperor is depicted with a shield on the eternity gate, which I'm pretty sure is at least early 90's artwork. It could be a ceremonial thing that he never used in battle.

I assume you mean this image of a greco/roman visage of the emperor striking down the dragon of chaos.

This is interpretive art built after his internment on the golden throne. nowhere that i am aware of did he ever use(or need) a shield, ceremonial or otherwise.

Spoiler:

For what it's worth - it's generally said that this shows The Emperor as Saint George slaying the dragon.

I don't know if we can say for certain that art was commissioned post his internment on the golden throne anyway. This "he's never ever ever had a shield before" thing is inaccurate at best I think

Did the Emporer fight on the front lines in his wars of conquest? Yes

Do we know an account of every single one of those battles in detail? No

Is it safe to assume at one point he may have used a Shield? Yes or No... Depends how incredibly anal you are about lore needing a verified citation at all times.

Argument closed.

Billicus wrote:
I don't know if we can say for certain that art was commissioned post his internment on the golden throne anyway. This "he's never ever ever had a shield before" thing is inaccurate at best I think

The artwork is from 2nd edition, by John Blanche, and depicts the Eternity Gate.

You can for example see it here in full: https://wh40kartwork.tumblr.com/post/154079754811/the-eternity-gate-by-john-blanche

It is also noticeably older than any of the fluff around the C'tan and the Void Dragon - the 'Dragon' in this case is Horus, depicted as the treasonous Serpent, and also as the Beast of Revelation from the biblical apocalypse. You'll notice that the whole artwork includes a lot of christian symbols, for example several of the allegorical figures associated with the evangelists, or a slightly modified Shield of Trinity.

Back in the day, Horus was often called 'The Serpent' because snakes and serpents are strongly associated with treachery and deceit, this got more subdued or lost later on when the Horus Heresy background was fleshed out.

C'tan and Necrons arrived roughly a decade to fifteen years after this image was made, so in this case the relevance of the St.George-like pose is purely allegoric and metaphorical, even though later autors picked it up and retroactively intergrated it.

Sorry I should've said "we can't say for certain that that art was commissioned post internment", my wording was really unclear.

It's all formations now.

But let's get the really important part out of the way first:

WarCom wrote:Power Levels are a thing of the past – points are now the order of the day.

Good riddance!



I mean, "Epic Hero" isn't the title I'd've chosen, but whatever...

Anyway, 3 of the same Datasheet. So right now that could mean, for instance, 9 Gladiators in a single army. I have to imagine that the sheer amount of datasheets will go down. This would also mean that highly flexible units will be limited, whereas units with set, unchangeable wargear but small amounts of variants would be more flexible (eg. say there was a Marine tank that had a choice of turrets, and then 3 of the same Marine tank that was split over 3 different data sheets).

Either way, this seems like there could be some issues here. This is basically "take whatever you want" with some relatively minor restrictions, and I can't see there being any real balance in there. I expect exceptions to exceptions within the first FAQ.

The part I don't like though is this:

WarCom wrote:For instance, you might be playing as the Gladius Task Force of the Adeptus Astartes. Your faction gives you the Oath of Moment army rule (more on this next week!) while your Detachment gives you access to six unique Stratagems – on top of the core group in the main rules – as well as four exclusive Enhancements for your Space Marine characters. It also bags you the Combat Doctrines ability, which allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase.

If you chose to fight with a different Detachment, you’d replace the Strategems, Enhancements and Combat Doctrines with those of the new Detachment.

Detachment choice will very rarely be tied to an army colour scheme. So while Ultramarines might be the theoretical and practical masters of the Gladius Task Force, other Chapters can use it too – and the same will be true of many other detachments as they are added into the game. This also means that you can try multiple Detachments with a single army. You are not going to be locked into a single Detachment just because you painted your army blue, or red, or yellow.

Firstly, congratulations, your Chapter/Craftworld/Legion/etc. is meaningless now. You're just a paint job. Secondly, Detachments is a dirty word, and the stink of 7th Ed hasn't gone away.

Thirdly, what if I don't want to play a "Gladius Task Force" - a completely made up bit of fluff nonsense that you have arbitrarily attached special rules and strats to - and just want to fething play Ultramarines, or Deathwatch, or whatever? You've just said that my colour-scheme (ie. the Chapter I chose) means nothing, so... how do I play my army rather than these made-up nonsense formations?

And you know that within a day the best formations will be found and we'll be back to square one and people acting dumbfounded in "Metawatch" articles going "What we didn't expect was how few of the Formations people would use. To combat this we've changed blah blah blah...".

Army Selection gubbins.





I’m….cautiously optimistic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m guessing this means no more Troops/Elites/Fast Attack etc?

Remarkably close to AoS. No Behemoth or Artillery...yet.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Remarkably close to AoS. No Behemoth or Artillery...yet.

But no Power Levels. They're dead.

I'm cautiously optimistic myself. On the surface, it seems basically like 7th edition Unbound + Detachments (but not Formations), but I'm skeptical only because it seems a little TOO open and that means wide open to abuse. I mean, we know all too well that without restrictions the comp players will come up with the filthiest lists imaginable, so it becomes a question if the tournament pack will further refine this or not. Also curious if the subfaction-specific things will change certain parts. E.g. white scars detachment would treat bikers as battleline.

I dunno, it seems to be open to silly nonsense. For example, it looks like you can have an army of nothing but characters.

Note that it says at least one character, but up to three datasheets.

That means you have 3 of each non-special character.
Most armies have multiple character options.

So for Necrons I can have nothing but 3 skorpekh lords, 3 lokhust lords, 3 Overlords on a CCB, 3 Wardens, 24 crypteks, divided between Technomancers, Plasmamancers and Chronomancers and psychomancers (assuming the Dynastic advisors rules are still in place), 3 lords, and 3 overlords on foot.

Is it optimal? Probably not.
Is it silly as hell? Yes.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic myself. On the surface, it seems basically like 7th edition Unbound + Detachments (but not Formations), but I'm skeptical only because it seems a little TOO open and that means wide open to abuse. I mean, we know all too well that without restrictions the comp players will come up with the filthiest lists imaginable, so it becomes a question if the tournament pack will further refine this or not. Also curious if the subfaction-specific things will change certain parts. E.g. white scars detachment would treat bikers as battleline.

But…and I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you? If everyone has the same lack of restriction, depending what is and isn’t battleline, army to army? You’re not necessarily going to be disadvantaged in terms of army selection options.

Mind, I see a difference between a Codex offering powerful combos, and a Codex offering only one powerful combo among the dross.

It also bags you the Combat Doctrines ability, which allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase.

If you chose to fight with a different Detachment, you’d replace the Strategems, Enhancements and Combat Doctrines with those of the new Detachment.

That's very close to where they lose me, that bulls**t multi-phase doctrine thing that many armies got and that feels like the 'phases' of some WoW raid boss or whatever is extremely unnecessary and very bad for mental load - if they now got dozens of variants of that for all sorts of formations it's just too much for my poor, addled brain. I don't like it, it turns a game into work for me.

Yeah that's my main concern with what they've revealed right now. No restrictions at all has been shown to be hugely bad, worse than having restrictions in the first place.

Getting some bad vibes from 4th edition Chaos here...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I’m guessing this means no more Troops/Elites/Fast Attack etc?

Looks like it, which is a pity.
There will most likely be a replacement term for them though that might have some rules interactions, like how Troops are now Battleline.

I wish they kept the old terms though.

So 6 strats. 'Enhancements' will be a combination of relics and traits it seems.

Also no allies except summoned daemons, knights, and brood.

The only rules marines get in Gladius are Oaths and Combat Doctrines.

And it sounds like every datasheet is going to have a special ability so I wonder if stuff like Angels of Death will be USR somewhere or on the datasheet.