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Right, so I am just about to assemble my second WS.

This will be containing DAs, and so I would like it to compliment them with a fair old cop of massed firepower.

Firstly, do you guys think this is a good idea? I will mean that the whole unit has NO anti-armour potential, and I'm always in two minds about balancing units to be either hella specialised, or more well-rounded.

I have one WS with BLs, which works very nicely along with my Banshees, right before they either hack up some MEQs. I use it either to force units out of a transport, or just use it as some nice instant deathness.

Sorry, back on track.

Shuricannon, or Scatter Lasers? And why?

Cheers peeps.

Personally, I like Eldar Missile Launchers.

Not only can you have anti-tank with them, you can also have anti-troop that pins.

That'll give you DA's versatility.

I considered this; however the new template rules mean I rarely get under 4" of scatter which means I rarely ever hit with the damn things!

EDIT: But wait! They're twin linked! Hmm, that might be an idea! Thanks dude! Anyone else?

Tek wrote:I considered this; however the new template rules mean I rarely get under 4" of scatter which means I rarely ever hit with the damn things!

EDIT: But wait! They're twin linked! Hmm, that might be an idea! Thanks dude! Anyone else?

Yeah, the twin-linked scatter is what makes it shine.

I will point out that you should add in the underslung Shurcannon if you go with the EMLs for your DAs. If you are firing the EML as the S4 blast, then you get to use the shuricannon too, even if you move 12"

Plus, as mentioned before, you still get the Anti-tank of S8 when you want it.

Also condier what the rest of your army is bringing; if you are light on AT, you may need to pack a second BL, but if you are brimming with lances and other stuff, you may just wanna stick with the EML or scatterlaser.

In the case of scatterlaser or shuricannon, always go for the scatterlaser. in 5th, everything has a coversave, and the difference between ap5 and ap6 is next to nothing, but the extra shot and 12" of range is golden.

Thats actuallly a really good load out. How do twin link blast work again?


Whats the cost on that I dont have my codex and am at work I cant remember if its 20 or 25.

Twin-linked blast means you get to re-roll the scatter.

However, the re-rolled result MUST be the one you choose. So if you roll a four and think "I can do better than that", and then re-roll a 6, the 6 is the result.

I'm torn between EMLs and Scatter Lasers now.

Time for a little math-hammer methinks

A scatter lasr will save you 5 points on the weapon turret & another 10pts from not being able to use thus need the shuriken cannon. If your doing that then I suggest go all the way and get the cheaper TL shuriken cannons saving you a further 15pts! You loose out on one shot & 12" but as far as ranged is concerned & as it isnt a gunboat anymore it shouldnt be too difficult.The loss of the shot is slightly ofset by the points saving & the AP of 5 which is useful against light troops.

My point is either spend 40pts & get lotsa firepower ooor spend 10pts and go for economy.

I agree with Raz...

Either spend the points and get EMLs + Shuricannon so that you can unload tons of firepower while moving 12", or go cheap and just get the twin linked Shuricannons.

(snip)

Well there are a lot of factors to look at here. First off, do you find (or think) that your avengers are likely to kill their targets when they get there? If they do, then they don't really need the added support from the serpent. If not, then you will want the help. The next question is how does the anti tank capabilities of the rest of your army look? Wave serpents are one of the best places to take bright lances because you overcome the problems of most heavy weapons being BS3 though twin linking. So if you need extra anti tank power, a serpent is a very good place to get it.

With that being said, lets look at the options.

Shuriken cannons: These are cheap. They generaly complement the avenger's light infantry killing capabilities. They lack range, but you'll be zooming up on the enemy anyway so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Scatter lasers: Slightly more expensive than the cannon but they pack an additional shot and 12" of range. Worth the points if you can spare them.

Star cannons: Not a bad option for the wave serpent. The upside is that since the serpent is going to be up in the enemy's face, you'll be able to manuver around so you can get shots at the enemy without cover. This weapon complements the avengers by providing some anti heavy infantry power which the avengers lack.

Bright lances: Great for adding extra anti tank power to your army if you need it. The down side is that they are extreamly expensive.

Missile launchers: A great option for virsitility. You can do both anti infantry and anti tank work as needed. It is also the only option where getting an underslung shuriken cannon becomes worth it.

Since someone asked about it, here is some data on the missile launcher scatter. This is assuming that you reroll the scatter every time it doesn't hit dead on. In practice, your shots will probably be a bit more accurate thant this since some small scatter on the first roll will be acceptable.
Direct Hit => 59.3%
Scatter 1" => 3.1%
Scatter 2" => 3.6%
Scatter 3" => 3.6%
Scatter 4" => 3.1%
Scatter 5" => 1.7%
Scatter 6" => .8%
Scatter 7" => .3%
Scatter 8" => .1%
Scatter 9" => round off brings it to 0%

So in the end, the missile launcher is rather accurate and will hit ~60% of the time.

Don't forget that since the Shuri-Cannons have short range, and you'll be zooming up to deposit your cargo, you will most likely also be in range for the underslung shuri-cats. Very handy for plinking a bunch of shots on rear armor as well.

The shuri-cannons really make the wave serpent uber-cheap, which if you are trying to go Mech, is a very good thing. The missile and scatter lasers are very good options, but if you are going to spend points on them, the serpent is a good platform for bright lances.

The problem I always have, is that if I take all the upgrades off, I can usually squeeze another serpent in. In 1750 I'm trying to run 4-5 serpents and 2-3 fire prisms.

Phoenix wrote:
Direct Hit => 59.3%
Scatter 1" => 3.1%
Scatter 2" => 3.6%
Scatter 3" => 3.6%
Scatter 4" => 3.1%
Scatter 5" => 1.7%
Scatter 6" => .8%
Scatter 7" => .3%
Scatter 8" => .1%
Scatter 9" => round off brings it to 0%

So in the end, the missile launcher is rather accurate and will hit ~60% of the time.

That math seems a little off as all that adds up to about 75.6%, but about 60% for a direct hit on a TL blast is about right.

Edit:
1-(2/3*2/3) + (1/36+2/36)*(1-(1/3*1/3)) = .624 = 62.4% (I may be wrong with this equation..any probability teachers out there?)

I actually enjoy such calculations and generally get them correct.

So here it is.

BS3 blast assuming you re-roll any scatter:
Direct Hit = 62.65% (1/3+2/3*1/12=7/18 before RR, so 11/18 to miss which I will use in all further calculation. After RR it becomes 7/18+11/18*7/18=203/324≈0.6265)
Scatter 1" = 3.40% (11/18*2/3*1/12=11/324≈0.0340)
Scatter 2" = 4.53% (11/18*2/3*1/9=11/243≈0.0453)
Scatter 3" = 5.66% (11/18*2/3*5/36=55/972≈0.0566)
Scatter 4" = 6.79% (11/18*2/3*1/6=11/162≈0.0679)
Scatter 5" = 5.66% (11/18*2/3*5/36=55/972≈0.0566)
Scatter 6" = 4.53% (11/18*2/3*1/9=11/243≈0.0453)
Scatter 7" = 3.40% (11/18*2/3*1/12=11/324≈0.0340)
Scatter 8" = 2.26% (11/18*2/3*1/18=11/486≈0.0226)
Scatter 9" = 1.13% (11/18*2/3*1/36=11/972≈0.0113)

Ok so at my disposal atm, I normally run a Falcon filled with FDs as well as another WS with BLs.

I also have a WL (BL) that I rarely use, a Prism, an Autarch and a Farseer with lance/spear respectively (at least one of which always sees a game). I have two Vypers with Starcannons and some Warp Spiders for lighter vehicles / heavy infantry.

So I think I'm ok for anti-tank?

So after all this wonderful input, I'm thinking of running TL EMLs and a Shuricannon?

Any final comments?

Thanks guys,

Id plan on running tl BL in my list but I think the TL EML and Shurkicannon would be a bit more verstiale for only 5 more points ( This is if you have no upgrades on the serpent)...Im worried about the tank hunting but Hell, your probably got some side armor shots that your even your Shuriken cannon can help with... Thanks for that guys!