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Hello and welcome. It is doubles time, and my followers of Khorne and Slaanesh have been paired up with a Nid player. Frankly speaking, we both suck. Now, I'm pretty much resigned to a world of hurt, but I'd like to know if there's anything I can do to prevent total annihilation. Let me explain; here is the other guy's list (or something - he hasn't been very clear on it, and I don't know the Nid book by heart).

1 Brood Lord /w full retinue of utterly pimped Genestealers.

3 Warriors /w 1 Barbed Strangler and two Deathspitters

The rest of his points invested in more Genestealers.

The Brood Lord & Friends group are the only models he demands to have, but he utterly refuses to play horde. My questions here are, what should I make him include, and what can I reasonably expect his Genestealers to accomplish/take on on their own?

My own intended list will be something like this:

Slaanesh Daemon Prince /w Wings and Doombolt - 145

10 Marines /w Rhino - 185

10 Marines /w Rhino - 185

10 Chosen /w MoK, 5 Flamers - 235

Sadly, this leaves me without any reliable way of dealing with enemy armour from a distance. I don't even know if my buddy's Genestealers will need the support from my Chosen. Should I switch them for a couple of Predator tanks or something? It's hugely troublesome for me to have to deal both with our lack of scoring units and with our lack of powerful ranged weaponry.

Hmm, I would lose the chosen, add two obli's and a cheap pred. That would go a long way for you...

Against this guy go for massed bolter fire. You should be able to thin his numbers enough to cause some serious damage against a stealer heavy list and then counter charge with your demon prince. I wouldn't worry too much about the warriors since he only has 3...you should win any sort of firefight against those guys. If you have the points after dropping the chosen put in some heavy bolters somewhere. That would really hurt his list.

No, no, no. I'm fighting together with this guy, not against him. If it were against him, I'd have no problem.

At this point level here are my suggestions: His list has troop killing taken care of. He shoots well, a broodlord is nasty sauce and genestealers hurt everything.

My suggestions: DP: lose all the frills. Just take a plain winged dp (120) or a winged dp with Mok or MoN. Skip Psychic powers. Just too expensive.

Troops: 2 x 7 CSM, AC with Pf, MG, Rhino
8 Plague marines, AC with fist, MG, Rhino

That should be right around 750. This lets you have a chance at dealing with tanks, and gives you objective grabbing power that the nids will struggle with. Stealers tend to die after they obliterate the squad they assaulted. This allows you to use the rhinos to shield the genestealers as they advance(if they don't outflank that is). They are very vulnerable to shooting and almost everyone knows how nasty they are once they get into you.

For a fully themed but fewer body count list you could do a nurgle dp, and all plage marines, but you might have to drop a fist and go down to squads of 6 to fit that in. But it would be fluffy and tough.


Meph

Now we're talking. This is the sort of advice I wanted.

I'll be tweaking that a bit, out of a compulsory need to never follow advice 100% (and out of a lack of miniatures, ahem), but I've finally got something to work with.

Thanks.

the stealers will rip anything they can to shreds in cc so shoot them before they reach you

Sorry for my first post.

Anyway, definately use the rhinos to shield the stealers, a great tactic. Someone in their list needs some anti tank. At a combined total of 1500pts someone is gonna be using a raider, so be prepared! Lose the chosen and maybe add some havocs. You already have so much anti infantry its not even funny so perhaps add couple of demon princes. Tough stuff, especially when combined with genestealers!

If both 750 forces have to follow 1 hq and 2 troops minimums whatever is in the land raider wont be very threatening. For marines the cheapest they can do is 100 pts for a no upgrades hq, 150 for two minimum scout squads, 250 for a land raider and 250 for a tem squad with no upgrades. Yes they could have a thunder hammer storm shield unit in there, but only five guys, and the rest of their army sucks rocks.

The picture is a little worse if they can use each others transports ... then you could build a decent core of marines and provide the other persons uber asaulty unit a ride with the land raider. Still, two melta guns and 3 powerfists should be sufficient for most armor opening tasks.

Instead of a third troop squad you could also do a smallish squad of terms with combi meltas and a chain fist or two. If you throw an icon on one of your rhino squads you could rush the raider, and DS into icon range and let fly with combi meltas and if that doesn't crack it assault on the next turn .. or at least make it run away for fear of being assaulted. You could also walk them behind the rhino wall as deterent. "go ahead, bring that land raider into extra crispy range to assault my rhinos. I dare you."

That takes away from the rhino wall though, and I prefer troops over elites, especially for smaller point games.

Good luck!

Meph

What if I used a Vindicator instead of a Terminator squad behind the rhinos? Or is the scatter too much of a risk?

All Im saying is that you need some anti tank. Somewhere! Maybe add a couple of meltas or something. Nids arent so great against vehicles at range so I would leave it to the chaos player.

Obliterators, perhaps?

Yeah, they are tough and can give a good beating!

ditch the chosen for cheap pred and defiler

What are all the chaos minis you own? When is this match?

The minis I own and the minis I can present on a table are two different matters.

Basically, what I can't do is get a Land Raider, produce Raptors, or go above 4 tanks.

The match(es) is in a couple of months. I don't really know.

Why no raptors? Are you out of GS?

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about nids, so i'll just give 2 lists.

Daemon Prince w/ MoK, Wings - 120 pts

10 pistol/sword CSM w/ MoK, AC, PF, meltagun, flamer - 240 pts

Another one of those squads - 240 pts

Vindicator w/ daemonic possession - 145 pts

745 pts.

The other is basically any variant on the lash oblit cheese list.

I don't want to model jump packs when I'll be able to buy much better-looking ones before long. D:

Thanks for the list - looks like a pretty intelligent set of choices.

Just so you know, though; Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols and Chain Swords nowadays.

Rethinking it, that Daemon Prince would cost 140 points.

Yeah, sorry. I kept trying different combinations.

And for CSM you have to pick either bolters or pistol/sword, due to WYSIWYG.

Masaioh: That used to be true in the old codex, but it is standard equipment now. I have been playing with the new dex since it came out. Since it is basic equipment and about million people had models from before the change every one I have ever gamed with both casually and in tournaments assumes they have all of their standard equipment, even if not modeled that way. The same goes for space marines and their new pistol. Almost no one put a pistol on every single bolter armed model, but it is standard equipment now and I have never heard of any grief over it.

You group might be pickier than normal, but every group I have played with or heard of assumes basic equipment on CSM even if not modeled. Just make sure you model special and heavy weapons appropriatly and you should be fine.

Meph

I guess I *could* get together enough junk to model it all, but damn if I have to put frag and krak grenades on every single model. I would weep.

Mephistoles1 wrote:Masaioh: That used to be true in the old codex, but it is standard equipment now. I have been playing with the new dex since it came out. Since it is basic equipment and about million people had models from before the change every one I have ever gamed with both casually and in tournaments assumes they have all of their standard equipment, even if not modeled that way. The same goes for space marines and their new pistol. Almost no one put a pistol on every single bolter armed model, but it is standard equipment now and I have never heard of any grief over it.

You group might be pickier than normal, but every group I have played with or heard of assumes basic equipment on CSM even if not modeled. Just make sure you model special and heavy weapons appropriatly and you should be fine.

Meph

You mean that CSM can have both a bolter and the additional close combat attack? Then what's the point of including all the parts? And you don't have to model grenades.

I would suggest meltaguns and flamers on your CSM, lose the chosen, add 2 oblits and give your guys more wargear. preferably fists -- MC lists will not be particularly kind to this list, so as many high-strength units as possible is good. your DP is fine, though i might go for a khornate one, as shooting with a DP isn't too necessary. I wouldn't advise plasma guns so much, meltas are pretty good as is. just my $0.02.

Lash Prince is very good...

and standard equipment only has to br modelled on Characters.