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I'm doing a Space Marine army, ideally of my own chapter, and have the colours pretty much sorted out (Dirty sand colour, with Dark blue and gold highlights) and am having problems working out some fluff. Yes, I am one of those players that likes to have the fluff sorted out as it gives a focus to any converting work that I want to do. I had thought about having them on a sand planet and maybe being an Ultramarine successor chapter, but I wondered if anyone had any other ideas? There are no restrictions on what I would be happy to work with, so all suggestions welcome.

I've had a flick through http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters, which is a great resource, but it's very difficult to look for chapters by colour if you don't know of anything of the right combination. Does anyone know of a better resource I can look at where the chapters are ordered, or accessible, by colour?

I hope that all made sense....

Have you looked in the codex for your color combos? Worst case scenario, you just make them a successor chapter to another chapter...

I had thought about them being a successor, which would be very easy, but I'd prefer a completely new chapter. I'm just lacking in the inspiration department at the moment!

A completely new chapter would require completely new geneseed, which, in turn, would require a new primarch...


Now, if they were Chaos, I could see a bit of viable fluff in actually having Fabius finally managing to build himself a chapter that's at least stable, given his long-standing fiddling about with the geneseed of every last warband that he's been employed by...

OK, so by 'completely new chapter', I meant my own chapter. I'm not going down the 'guaranteed to get flamed by everyone on here due to messing with the whole patriarch-geneseed blah blah blah' fluff line.

Then just call it an Ultramarines successor chapter and keep on rolling. I'm not trying to flame you, but if you want to stick to the fluff, then your options are a bit limited in the realm of loyalist marines, whereas, like I said earlier, if you were to run chaos, even if it was based on the SM codex, you've got the option of making them Fabius Bile's own, personal, near-perfected creations, with complete disregard for any of the rod-up-their-rear fluff Nazis.

Hmmm. You might have a good idea there. Anyone else?

Most chapters come from Ultramarines stock so just say thats where the came from.

Any thoughts on sand colour marine inspired fluff though?

InyokaMadoda wrote:I'm doing a Space Marine army, ideally of my own chapter, and have the colours pretty much sorted out (Dirty sand colour, with Dark blue and gold highlights) and am having problems working out some fluff.
I had thought about having them on a sand planet and maybe being an Ultramarine successor chapter

I don't think its possible to sort chapters by color.
Some established successor-chapters have nothing in common with their "ancestors" colors.

So youre free to envision some fluff.

-UM = codex astartes strictly followed?

-sand planet = is it for the color or the tactics/units employed?

-chapter with homeworld?

Maybe:

-some differences to the UM. Reduce / do not field some units?
-different "standard opponent". Could be necrons, if it is a "death" world....

InyokaMadoda wrote:Any thoughts on sand colour marine inspired fluff though?

Well,perhaps your chapter is a succesor Ultra Marines chapter from the Tyranic wars between the Ultra Marines and Tyranids founded on a world the nidz had reduced to a bleak desert wasteland or something along those lines,hence the sand coulored power armour.

The fluff suggests that there are somewhere close to 1000 chapters, most of which are successor chapters to Ultramarines since Ultramarines and Space Wolves were kind of.. lazy... during the heresy.

Raven Guard, Salamanders and White Scars fought on the frontlines and were signifigantly reduced in numbers, the Dark Angels split in half with half of them turing to Chaos and the civil war took its toll and the Blood Angels were corrupted and so they prefer NOT to make successor chapters since they tend to be chaos-y. The Imperial Fists were almost entirely annhiliated by Pertebo. The Iron Hands.. well.. who knows, really.

Furthermore, the Space Wolves sort of disregarded the wishes of the Imperium and decided not to split up their legion.

So the UltraMarines ended up being the chapter that made the first initial successor chapters while all the other nonChaos legions were busy replenishing their numbers. Because most sucessor chapters were UltraMarine successor chapters there were more successor chapters that made successor chapters that made successor chapters and so forth that were Ultramarine than any other.

There have been about 20 'generations' of successor chapters in all, because of expontial growth 80% can be traced back to UltraMarines.

However, virtually all Space Marine players play UltraMarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves or Black Templars-- because if you play those ones, you get a bunch of free bonuses at no real cost. For the same reason we saw a huge growth in Raven Guard players after Shrike was introduced (I was a Raven Guard player before Shrike was created and I refuse to use him).

When Salamanders and Iron Hands had special rulesets and models, they also gained a lot of players. Instead of Imperial Fists, however, people play Black Templar which are an Imperial Fists successor chapter because they are the ones that get the special rules (also, GW's yellow paint used to not work AT ALL, so it was nearly impossible to actually paint up an Imperial Fist army).

However, despite the popularity of the first gen Space Marine legions, there are supposed to be 1000 chapters and so players are encouraged to make their own! At least if they can stand being without any of the (sometimes ridiculously over-the-top) free boosts they get for painting their models gray, red, green or black.

Although Space Marines do have homeworlds, I've never really understood why entirely planets would have to have a single climate. Why do we have "volcanic" worlds and "desert" worlds and "ice" worlds and "jungle" worlds when our planet here on Earth has ALL of these climates? Wouldn't it be more sensible to presume that other planets would have a variety of climates as well?

But, also, Space Marines wouldn't be very useful to anyone if they were all stuck on a single planet. Its too easy to wipe out an entire planet in 40K. It would certainly be possible for a Space Marine Chapter to be specialized in desert combat without presuming that they only exist on a single planet that is comprised entirely of desert. None of the other chapters that we know of are specialized for that kind of climate, so the chapter could go from planet to planet handling missions that would require them to fight in sand-storms and go without water for days.

They could have dark skin, typical power armor can insulate one from both heat and cold anyway and Space Marines are typically set up to spend a long time without food or water, so none of those things are of particular concern.

IT would be good to decide WHO the chapter specialzied in fighting-- whether it be Orks (most common enemy of the imperium), Eldar (why not?), Tyrnids (a bit harder since they are relatively rare), Kroot (same problem as Tyrnid) or even one of the minor Xenos enemies without an army book (check Xenology) or you could even make up an enemy of your own with the background that they entirely wiped the species out and now look to face off with new enemies.

Very Nice summery there Hobgoblyn. Just wanna add my observations:

Ultramarines were sent off far far away by Horus (obviously because Calgar was arround back then and would have bitchslapped Horus back to M21) so they wouldnt interfere. Thats why they had the largest legion after the Heresy.

Raven Guard after the Hersy but before the Whole Chapter Split thing, Corax tryed to regrow his legion but in doing so utterly cocked up the geneseed, which is one reason why there are few Raven Guard Sucessors.

Salamaders were wiped out down pretty much to their Primarch and about 20 others, hence the only Legion with no 2nd Founding Chapters

Space Wolves were by no means "lazy", but were again manipulated by Horus to keep them away from Earth and the main bulk of the Hersy. They did "split" into the Wolf Brothers but they suspiciously disbanded after not to long (Read: Wandered back to the Fang Pissed out their minds fumbling with the keys) mainly because Russ was tired after kicking ass and didnt want ANOTHER civil war, something Gulliman would have whole heartadly caused if he didnt have his way.

Imperial Fists actually survived the Heresy rather intact, but as Dorn felt Responsable for the Emperors "death" he went all Emo and started a self destructive rampage against the Iron Warriors, something Gulliman could have easily stopped, him being one of Dorns closest friends, but didnt, knowing that to have his Ultramarines that much Stronger would prove advantagious. Thats why they only had two 2nd founding sucessors (if memory serves, they were the Black Templars and Crimson fists)

But then of course you have nutters like me who are convinced the Ultramarines and Dark Angels are actually just Alpha Legion in disguse

As for the "One planet one Climate" problem, thats a old OLD sci-fi sterotype that still permiates into todays works, though many newer sci fi works I have seen anyway are starting to get a little more sciency in that regard (and thank the Emperor on Terra for that)

Wow, nice write up Hobgoblyn!

What about in real life, like mercury and the moons of jupiter. Io IS an ice planet and there are others that are completely desolate with one way to describe the terrain. Like pluto; rocky and grey.

Holy mother, thank you to Hobgoblyn and Gwar! Some fantastic summaries there and give me plenty to think about! Hobgoblyn, somehow I just hadn't put 2 and 2 together, realising that our planet has so many climates that it need not be a desert planet as such. And I'm really starting to like the 'trained to kill one type of enemy' style. I may have to focus my chapter in that way.
I must admit that I have always quite liked the Space Wolves visually, although I understand that their rules are a bit sucky. I may have to do some nice converting using bits from those guys....

InyokaMadoda wrote:Holy mother, thank you to Hobgoblyn and Gwar! Some fantastic summaries there and give me plenty to think about! Hobgoblyn, somehow I just hadn't put 2 and 2 together, realising that our planet has so many climates that it need not be a desert planet as such. And I'm really starting to like the 'trained to kill one type of enemy' style. I may have to focus my chapter in that way.
I must admit that I have always quite liked the Space Wolves visually, although I understand that their rules are a bit sucky. I may have to do some nice converting using bits from those guys....

Heresy! The rules for the Space Wolves are dated, but by no means sucky! (My First army was Wolves, and I love them to bits)

And hold out for December when the new codex comes out, oh ye of little fayth!

Ok, might do that. But I want to start the army off on the right foot now and with only old rules to go by, I wouldn't want to go the wrong way. I guess it doesn't matter, but any thoughts on this would be great. I don't want to paint them as SW, but a 'counts as' army would be fun.

Well the I can help you there.
Grey hunters will most certainly keep their Bolter and CCW combo, and might get a Bolt Pistol as well (similar to ye Olde Chaos marines).

I doubt blood Claws would change as well (BP + CCW) so they should be a safe choise too.

You can always modal them with Bolt Pistols, Bolters and Knives and whatnot and count them as grey hunters or as regular marines, no matter what happens.

So do you think I should base a 'SW counts as' army from the current new Space Marine codex as it's new, or should I get hold of the old SW one, even though it's about to be replaced?

Comments like "Grey hunters will most certainly keep their Bolter and CCW combo" are fine and very helpful, but there are bound to be others I'm unaware of. Also, since you seem to be very helpful, how do the SW play? Do they favour a particular style (CC, bikes etc) or are they a good general cover all bases group? I haven't played SM too much at the moment and would like a good sense of what I'd be getting into with a 'counts as'.
Thanks again!

No worries mate, Ill send over a PM since Ive derailed this topic long enough lol

You are a diamond, although feel free to include it in this thread if you'd prefer, as it's my thread about choosing how I paint and then play a marine army. No derailing here as far as I can see. Of course, getting PMs makes you feel like you have friends....

Haha that it does. PM sent But I will copypasta here if it makes you feel better :p

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179942

Good topic detailing all the different units in Codex: SW

Space Wolves are Just like Marines, only better in CC by a Mile and a half.

Grey Hunters because of True Grit have 2 Attacks each in CC whether they charged or not, and Blood Claws get 4 Each (if charged at they need to pass a Ld test but whatever) and can take Power Weapons and Power Fists in both (Max 2 for Grey Hunters, 3 in a unit of 11+ Blood Claws) For this reaason they are the gak at Drop Pod Assaults, Ypu Drop in a Grey Hunter Pack, Fire 20 shots, soak up damage as meqs do and then fight like 'ard bastards in CC.

Their (non special) Characters are Monsters in CC, each getting something like 4 attacks BASE, and have S5 Power Weapons that let you get a Bonus Attack (so like relic Blades but better!) And cheap as Chips (since you need one for every 750 points). Also SW vendreads are Much MUCH better than Nilla ones.

Their Bikers are Useless so dont worry about them. Their Scouts are awesome though, since they can arrive from your enemies table edge, give them a Meltagun (they are BS4) and some meltabombs to PEWPEW some tanks hanging back or that annoying heavy weapon squad.

Well, actually that thread I linked has a much better overview, so I will end by Suggesting a Core of Grey Hunters and Blood Claws for now, with a Wolf Lord and Venerable Dread as HQ and wait for the new codex to see if anything else becomes really that effective

PM sent. You sir, are a godsend.

well i guess all is said i am just a little to late

No, assasin, feel free to join the party!

Don't forget that WG can gear up in termie armor w/TH/SS.

jmurph wrote:Don't forget that WG can gear up in termie armor w/TH/SS.

The problem with that is they are horrendously expensive, working out at 55 points EACH with just the Termi Armour, TH and SS. That's with none of the funky wargear that makes Wolf Guard, well, Wolf Guard. And what do we get in return for this wonderful 37.5% hike in points? The ability to not teleport in! (granted we can buy a drop pod due to the Archaic wording in the codex but that only accommodates 6 Termies). if they had an extra attack or perhaps still ignored negative Ld mods in CC I wouldn't mind, but as it is TH and SS Wolf Guard are beyond help.