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Facing IG and dual land raider marines primarily.
HQ 130
DP wings

Troops 925
10 Plague marines, champ w/pf, 2Xmeltas, rhino w/combi melta
10 Noise marines, champ w/pw and doom siren, 10 sonic blasters, rhino
10 Khorne Berserkers, champ w/pw, melta bombs, rhino


Heavy Support 445
2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators
Vindicator w/demonic possession

1500pts

Ok, apologies for this but this really needs work.


DP: ALWAYS give them a mark.. I know you are doing BL but you have other marks... Even the MoS on its own is well worth it

Troops:

Far too many points in each squad which results in not enough squads for objective missions.

PMs: 7/8 is the optimum - 10 is too many points IMO for what they should be doing
NMs - Again, either do small assault squads or shooty only squads - again 10 is too many points in one basket... 8 is ideal but 6 is fluffy
Berserkers: Again, take 8... Also, PWs are rubbish on zerkers due to new Wound allocation rules... Due to the likely number of hits/wounds, your opponent can allocate multiple PW wounds on s single model. Take a PF for this reason and the fact that they are just made of awesomeness vs Nids/Dreads etc

Troops overall: need more units

Heavy:

Oblits are sex, nuff said
Vindi is the main piece of armour in your army... Expect all LCs/Big guns pointed at it all game... Either go all tank or no tank for heavy support csm IMO though some will argue with this... LRs are a very different matter.

Overall, I think this list needs some attention to not get hammered.

WingWong wrote:Ok, apologies for this but this really needs work.

No offense taken, I thank you for taking the time to peruse the list and offer insight.

WingWong wrote:DP: ALWAYS give them a mark.. I know you are doing BL but you have other marks... Even the MoS on its own is well worth it

The marks are very helpful, but I don't want to dedicate more points to him than I have to - he gets shot up by every heavy weapon until he dies. It works well for me as that allows my oblits and vindy to position and do work. He always gets his points back, but mark or no mark he gets shot to hell.

WingWong wrote:Far too many points in each squad which results in not enough squads for objective missions.

PMs: 7/8 is the optimum - 10 is too many points IMO for what they should be doing
NMs - Again, either do small assault squads or shooty only squads - again 10 is too many points in one basket... 8 is ideal but 6 is fluffy
Berserkers: Again, take 8... Also, PWs are rubbish on zerkers due to new Wound allocation rules... Due to the likely number of hits/wounds, your opponent can allocate multiple PW wounds on s single model. Take a PF for this reason and the fact that they are just made of awesomeness vs Nids/Dreads etc

Troops overall: need more units

I have found 3 troop choices to be enough most of the time. I have the ability to popentially hold 3 objectives and contest the rest. The role of the troops is to eliminate their troops. That is how I use this army and it had worked well in playtesting. The reason the squads are so large is that I need units left late game to sit on objectives. I will try to squeeze the point for a fist with the 'zerkers. My experience with them so far has been that 10 on the charge with a pw champ leaves very little to swing back at all.

WingWong wrote:Oblits are sex, nuff said
Vindi is the main piece of armour in your army... Expect all LCs/Big guns pointed at it all game... Either go all tank or no tank for heavy support csm IMO though some will argue with this... LRs are a very different matter.

Overall, I think this list needs some attention to not get hammered.

The vindi would be worse off if the prince wasn't getting pounded the whole game. I would swap it for another prince, but our tournament rules assign so many points to the HQ in annihalation that I can't afford the hit of losing 2 hq choices. More oblits and I will lose soft points for spam. :(

I playtested replacing the vindi with a defiler. The vindi lasts longer and does more damage. I don't know what else I could take. If I have no heavy armor then my rhinos wont make it to deliver their payload...

Maybe something more like this:
HQ
DP wings

Troops
8 Plague marines, champ w/pf, 2Xmeltas, rhino w/combi melta
10 Noise marines, champ w/pw, 10 sonic blasters, rhino
8 Khorne Berserkers, champ w/pf, melta bombs, rhino


Heavy Support
3 Obliterators
Vindicator w/demonic possession
Vindicator w/demonic possession

Well, the IG opponent will pop the Rhinos at first sight and then your precious Cult Marines need to take a walk.
I'd take a fully mech army. Drop the Obliterators and take some more Rhino squads. Cult Marine units don't need to be maxed out as they are fearless; eight men squads should suffice.

The oblits are my main anti tank - I would be crushed by IG without them. If they shoot my rhinos turn 1 then that isn't necessarily bad, as they didn't shoot the prince, oblits, or vindicators. If I drop the vindicators altogether I could do something like this:

HQ
DP wings

Troops
8 Plague marines, champ w/pf, 2Xmeltas, rhino w/combi melta
8 Plague marines, champ w/pf, 2Xplasma, rhino
8 Noise marines, champ w/pw, 8 sonic blasters, rhino
8 Khorne Berserkers, champ w/pf, melta bombs, rhino

Heavy Support
2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators

Looks better.
Four Rhinos will dilute enemy shooting and might allow some units to reach the enemy front ranks.

I run IoCG CSM squads with Meltas and P. Fists/Combi-meltas in Rhinoes as my fodder troops as they can handle anything in the game, and they make a solid anti-tank base for "drive-by" meltas through the firing ports. At 250 ish points a squad, they're ridiculously effective en masse. It's ok to not run all cult marines. A Havoc choice in Rhino with 4x Flamers and a Fist/Combi-flamer will eradicate with roughly the same or sometimes more effeciency than a 'Zerker squad, especially if you MoS it and add a Power weapon.

I like your idea of not modding the prince, I need to try that.

That last list you have there looks the best so far. I ove zerkers and noise marines, and you can lay down some serious pain if you use them well, with the PMs holding objectives for all eternity. You might want to switch one squad of PMs for the aforementioned flamer havocs, but on the other hand, nothing holds the line like plague marnes.

Yea, I figured the plasma marines will sit on a home objective and the melta marines will claim forward objectives. The berserkers are countercharge goodness and the nm rain fun down on them.

No vindicator means even less anti tank, though. :(

Vindi is not anti-tank.
It's anti Heavy infantry.
If you try to use it as anti tank, you will be sad. It will do nothing much. It will die.

While Vindicators are undeniably awesome, they are always very risky to take. It doesn't take much scatter (especially with lower BS from DP) to ruin a shot at a tank, halving your strength, and they will be instant targets on the battlefield from enemy antitank, especially since you have no other vehicles apart from rhinos to draw fire. Those oblits can handle a tank far better than a vindicator with 4 lascannon shots, and they can lay down some pain with plasma cannons against enemy infantry.

If you really want a good dedicated antitank unit, one of my favorites is 5 Chosen w/4 meltas and a pf in a rhino. You can infiltrate or outlfank and bust a vehicle right off the bat, and several others if you are lucky. A squad like that runs about 50 points more than one of the Vindis you were using.

If I'm not mistaken you would have to leave them out of the Rhino to Infiltrate. I believe it was in the Infiltrate rule wording. I've heard of Outflanking in the Rhino but that's not really a sure thing.

I like the idea of having the 2 vindicators in the list. Nothing says 'No Mans Land' like covering a good portion of the board with Str 10 templates!!

I would second the motion of using normal CSMs w/meltas and PF. They like their Imperial counterparts are versatile enough with that set to grab objectives and/or be pesky enough to worry an opponent.

True, you would have to leave them out of the rhino in order to infiltrate (bad wording on my part) but you can outflank in the rhino. This can very effective against enemy artillery, etc, as you can move 12" onto the board, disembark 2", and then fire your meltas.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:If I'm not mistaken you would have to leave them out of the Rhino to Infiltrate. I believe it was in the Infiltrate rule wording. I've heard of Outflanking in the Rhino but that's not really a sure thing.

Correct. No infiltrating rhinos! They can come in inside their rhino via outflank and sometimes this is helpful, other times they pick their nose until turn 4 or 5 before deciding to show up and help. Note that they cannot otflank and arrive outside their rhino(i.e. they can only shoot the turn they arrive, they cannot charge because the rule specifially mentions they must arrive inside the transport).

Meph

20 bucks says I can find a way to twist the wording and say that I can Infiltrate the Rhino and it also blocks LoS since they're embarked.

Heh, I'm not sure thats really relevant, Cannerus.

Anyways, the point is, they are an interesting unit with alot of potential, especially since you could opt for other combinations, like all PWs, plasma guns, or flamers.