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HQ:
Big Mek KFF.85pt
Big Mek SAG.95.pt

Elites:
15xKommandos,2xBurnas+Snikrot.265pt

Troops:
12xBoyz,Nob w/PK,Rokkit.121pt
-Trukk.35pt
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK,2xRokkit.175pt
19xGrots,Runtherd w/Grot Prod.72pt

Heavy Support:
Battle Wagon:'Ard Case,2xBig Shootas.115pt
Battle Wagon:Killkannon,kannon,2xBig Shootas.175pt
7xFash Gitz:More Dakka+Pain Boy.270pt

Total:1403pts
Models:77

So any ideas what to do with 93pts to spare

Boyz Boyz Boyz, you can never go wrong with more boyz, but why do you have grots on what looks like a kos list?

Well, drop the grots, drop the gitz, add 15 lootas and another trukkload of boyz.

ignore montoya, use the grotz as a sheild for your boyz, Keep the flash gitz if you ever want to have loads of fun in a game, and if they hit ap 1s or 2s then there unstoppable. um, i dont think you can the painboy with them, so, take out the painboy and put in 3 meganobz, they have 2 wounds, 2+ armour save, great unit to have, also, you should have 1 burna and one shoota in your kommandos, and you are right in maxing out the kommandos, if you dont they will die. SO, hope that all helps a bit.

thanks.

oscar.

what exacrly are you going for here? Its not a dakka army, its not really KOS, maybe get rid of the kommandos and throw some lootas in the BW. You can get a pain boy with flash gitz. For 100 points you can get a deff dread, 10 boys, 2 killa kans, lots of stuff. Remember 15 kommandos with snikrot dosent do much, they come in kill one thing and then die, they are a lot of points in a 1500 point game.

sorry that I hadn't made it clear before the KFF goes with the flash gitz (who never leave the battle wagon and kill the 'ard stuff) the grots are there to hold an objective with the SAG close by to give fire support.On a different note would it be worth it to take two deff koptas with twin-linked rokkits

I guess ignoring me is an option, but flash gitz are horrible in 5th edition. Look throug all of the lists on this forum and see how many people use them. Lootas are > gitz.

The grots are screening what? The gitz are in a wagon, the 20 boyz are in a wagon, and the 12 boyz are in a trukk. As objective squatters they are adequate, but you need boyz more.

Perhaps OscarHardwick is the one we need to ignore.

things are only horrible if you dont know how to use them (take bustas for example most ork players hate them, most of my opponents cower in fear from them) to say gits suck is well...quite frankly an uneducated statement. being as 75% of people play marines in some form or another having a squad that shoots 24" assault 2 str6 weapons is anything but "sucky" wounding on 2's and having a 33-50% chance that everyone of those shots ignores sv3+ sounds pretty good. Not to mention having them riding around in a BW with a kill kannon moving 6" firing an ordanance weapon and 14 str 6 shots a turn also sounds pretty good to me. Better yet throw 4 big shootas on the wagon and now you have 12 str5 and 14 str6 shots a turn, still sound sucky? If you want to get crazy, give the mek a burna and the wagon a deff rolla, move shoot 12 str5 14 str 6 tank shock with the rolla give some burna love and have the gits assault what ever is left. So now were up to (assuming you get close enough with the wagon, 12 str 5, 14 str6 d6 str 10 and lets say a conservative 3 str 4 hits plus a nice assault by you gits (who are also nobs with a 4/5+ save with FNP and 2 wounds)

Any questions?

As far as grots being objective squatters, thats is just a horrible idea. Sure it sounds good but lets take a closer look shall we. 10 grots plus a handler is what 40 points? 10 boys is 60 points. 10 grots take 3 wounds and they run away, 10 boys take 3 wounds and they stay on a 7+. 10 grots wont stand up to anything, 10 boys can survie some stuff. 20 grots plus 2 handlers is 80 points 20 boys is 120. 20 grots take 6 wounds and run away, 20 boys take 6 wounds and laugh at you, 20 grots cant fight anything, 20 boys will krump 5 termies. So at 40 vs. 60 the boys are only marginally better ( a better chance they wont run away and they are a unit that has to be dealt with, the grots just have to have some sort of fire power thrown at them to make them go away) at 80 vs. 120 points...well if you cant see the disparity then, maybe you shouldnt be playing orks.

You were wondering what to do with your 100 points up grade your grots to boys give them shootas and rokkit launchas (or big shootas) and now you have a nice big 24" threat bubble around your boys, plus if you got a big shoota you can annoy people by popping off some str 5 36" shots.

Inigo Montoya wrote:I guess ignoring me is an option, but flash gitz are horrible in 5th edition. Look throug all of the lists on this forum and see how many people use them. Lootas are > gitz.

Flash Gitz are not "horrible". You're comparing apples and oranges. They don't even take up the same slot in the FOC. They are basically Shooty nobs with heavy armor that can crush Space Marines. I probably wouldn't team them with a KFF since the cover save is kinda redundant but still they aren't a bad unit as long as they have a decent leadership save.

That said they are pricey for a 1500 point list. They are a large investment so in a list like this they might be taking up some valuable points. They'd probably be an auto include in a 2500 point list though.

@da gob smasher:
I can see where you are coming from and agree with you completely if I drop the grots thats 97+72=169pts and with that i could take 20boyz(120pts),a nob,w/bosspole(21pts) and two rokkits(20pts) total:161pts,or I could take 2 big shootas for 151pts and give the KFF mek some upgrades.So whats the verdict Rokkits or Big Shootas for holding an objective.

lootas to give some fire support and and an ablative shield to keep the mek with sag a bit more survivable

i would go with rokkits you have enough firepower to deal with the infatry of any one, take the anti tank

@piezzz:
I thought the rokkits were better myself but would it make sense to drop the nob in the objective squad and give the SAG a boss pole and have him join that squad and then give the KFF mek a burna

So that list would look like:

HQ:
Big Mek KFF,Burna.105pt
Big Mek SAG,Boss Pole.100pt

Elites:
15xKommandos,2xBurnas+Snikrot.265pt

Troops:
12xBoyz,Nob w/PK,Boss Pole,Rokkit.122pt
-Trukk.35pt
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK,2xRokkit.175pt(Battle Wagon)
20xBoyz,2xRokkit.140pts(SAG goes here)

Heavy support:
Battle Wagon:'Ard Case,2xBig Shootas.115pt
Battle Wagon:Killkannon,kannon,2xBig Shootas.175pt
7xFash Gitz:More Dakka+Pain Boy.270pt (KFF goes here)

Total:1502pts
I think that uses the points quite wisely but should the Boss Pole on the SAG be removed to put me under 1500pt.So again I'm asking for peoples opinions on this

warsmith pyrus wrote:@piezzz:
I thought the rokkits were better myself but would it make sense to drop the nob in the objective squad and give the SAG a boss pole and have him join that squad and then give the KFF mek a burna

So that list would look like:

HQ:
Big Mek KFF,Burna.105pt
Big Mek SAG,Boss Pole.100pt

Elites:
15xKommandos,2xBurnas+Snikrot.265pt

Troops:
12xBoyz,Nob w/PK,Boss Pole,Rokkit.122pt
-Trukk.35pt
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK,2xRokkit.175pt(Battle Wagon)
20xBoyz,2xRokkit.140pts(SAG goes here)

Heavy support:
Battle Wagon:'Ard Case,2xBig Shootas.115pt
Battle Wagon:Killkannon,kannon,2xBig Shootas.175pt
7xFash Gitz:More Dakka+Pain Boy.270pt (KFF goes here)

Total:1502pts
I think that uses the points quite wisely but should the Boss Pole on the SAG be removed to put me under 1500pt.So again I'm asking for peoples opinions on this

I probably wouldn't put the SAG with the Shoota Boyz since it can't fire if they actually move. Granted you can just use them to objective camp but I'd like to see them a bit more versatile since you only have 3 troops.

I'd drop the SAG for a Warboss and put that with the front boyz unit, or I'd put the SAG with a Loota unit or a grot unit.

Another option is to just drop the SAG entirely it really isn't needed.

You have too many Kommandos and 15 in a single unit is overkill. Either that unit is going to clobber any squishy army you are up against (Tau, Non-Mech Guard) or it's gonna get smoked or tarred by Power Armor (Yeah the burnas help but still difficult) or Vehicles no matter how big it is (Space Marines, SOB, Mech Eldar).

You can run it as a unit of 5 and still get the job done against the right army. If you're up against the wrong army it's less of a point investment if they don't do anything. Sometimes I run them as a group of 10 depending on the points I have available.

Drop 5-10 Kommandos and the SAG, dump the KillKannon for a Deff Rolla and then use those points to add additional Flash Gitz and maybe some single Deffkoptas with TL Rockitts and Buzz Saw's on the outflank. I've been messing around with single deffkoptas in each of my 3 fast attack slots and I'm having success. They either kill something worth more points than they are or they fail to do that but waste an opponents shooting round for 1-2 units.

Gitz are a point sink now. I am not going to e-argue about it, but there is a definitive rease they are missing from every serious competative build running now. They cost far too much for what they bring to the table.

Yes, they fill a different slot than lootas - which makes lootas even more insane. An Elite unit with an average of 30 48" S7 shots - way better choice than Gitz and you still have that heavy slot open. I am not saying gitz are unusable at all, but they are not the best choice for shooting or assaulting. For shooting, lootas are a far,far better choice. For assaulting, look at what you just paid for an unkitted nob squad. Either way, just too many points for what they deliver.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Gitz are a point sink now. I am not going to e-argue about it, but there is a definitive rease they are missing from every serious competative build running now. They cost far too much for what they bring to the table. Yes, they fill a different slot than lootas - which makes lootas even more insane. An Elite unit with an average of 30 48" S7 shots - way better choice than Gitz and you still have that heavy slot open.

I'm certainly not challenging that Lootas are an awesome unit. In fact many of my lists pack at least 20 and most of them 30. But they serve different roles considering Gitz are an assault unit (meaning they move towards your opponent's army and shoot while doing so) while Lootas are stationary the entire fight and are often LOS'd out of options to shoot at.

I am not saying gitz are unusable at all, but they are not the best choice for shooting or assaulting. For shooting, lootas are a far,far better choice.

You said they were "Horrible" which I think is hyperbole. I think saying Lootas are better for "shooting" is simplistic since they are a heavy weapons shooting choice that can get clobbered out of cover and lack mobility. They are also uninspired in Dawn of War games. These limitations obviously don't make them bad, but starting every single list you create with 45 lootas is probably mistake prone and you better pray for a non spearhead non DOW deployment scenario and you also better pray that your opponent isn't spamming you with AR 14 vehicles which lootas are worthless against.

For assaulting, look at what you just paid for an unkitted nob squad... Either way, just too many points for what they deliver.

You paid less and are better at shooting? Snazzguns are superior to twin linked shootas, particularly against power armor. The have higher strength and better AP and the More Dakka upgrade is basically automatic. Kitted nobs cost more points for all the wound gaffe options you may or may not put on them. Flash Gitz have Heavy Armor by default. Any decent Nob Squad have Cybork. Both have FNP. In terms of point for point survivability they are almost identical.

If I want to run multi wound orks in my list and if I'm interested in running in my shooting phase I'll take a choppy nob squad. If I want mobility I'll take bikes and if I want to shoot I'll take a unit of flash gitz.

Anyways I'm not coming down on your advice. In fact I agree with you, lootas would probably improve the list. Although TBH I'm not sure he's interested in running them here so I was kinda working with his theme with my suggestions. I just had to disagree with the comment that "Flash Gitz are horrible" when I think they can serve a role in certain lists, particularly big point games. You should try using them sometime.

I have them in a shoe box. I quit using them 5th edition, after playing a few games with them and math hammering it out, I (and many others) decided they were a poor choice for competative builds.

I absolutely agree that in >2000 point games they are a good choice. Toss them in a wagon and watch them do work. My local metagame plays mostly 1500 and below, and they are just not a points effective choice in that scenario.

I would like to consider taking lootas if people think that a group of 7 on an objective is worth it,also if I choose to run 5 kommandos should I have two burnas and snikrot in the squad or drop one burna.Is the killkannon really so bad that i should drop it because my army doesn't have too many templates and I don't want to be caught short.(also the SAG may be a liability but I'm a risk taker and don't mind if things go wrong).Finally whay should I do with the Shoota boyz if I put lootas on the objective.

warsmith pyrus wrote:I would like to consider taking lootas if people think that a group of 7 on an objective is worth it,also if I choose to run 5 kommandos should I have two burnas and snikrot in the squad or drop one burna.Is the killkannon really so bad that i should drop it because my army doesn't have too many templates and I don't want to be caught short.(also the SAG may be a liability but I'm a risk taker and don't mind if things go wrong).Finally whay should I do with the Shoota boyz if I put lootas on the objective.

Lootas can't take objectives since they aren't troops. They are just there for fire support. You'll still want a boyz unit to objective camp.

I'd run this:

HQ - 85

Big Mek KFF

Troops - 497

12xBoyz,Nob w/PK,Boss Pole
-Trukk w Red Paint and Reinforced Ram
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK, Bosspole ,2x Big Shoota
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK, Bosspole, 2x BIg Shoota

Elite - 435

5xKommandos (Snikrot)
15xLootas
5xLootas

Heavy - 480

Battlewagon w Red Paint, Deff Rolla, Big Shoota
Battlewagon w Red Paint, Deff Rolla, Big Shoota
7xFlash Gitz w More Dakka and Painboy

Put 20 Boyz in one wagon and the Gitz and KFF in the other wagon. Put the truck behind them and make sure they all get 4+ cover.

Camp the other 20 boyz on an objective on your side and don't really move them. Use the lootas in the back to pop light vehicles or infantry if they are available. Use the kommandos in flank march only to blow up a vehicle or squishy infantry. Avoid power armor at all costs and if there are no viable targets when they show up just put them on your side of the table in cover.

Kevin Nash wrote:

warsmith pyrus wrote:I would like to consider taking lootas if people think that a group of 7 on an objective is worth it,also if I choose to run 5 kommandos should I have two burnas and snikrot in the squad or drop one burna.Is the killkannon really so bad that i should drop it because my army doesn't have too many templates and I don't want to be caught short.(also the SAG may be a liability but I'm a risk taker and don't mind if things go wrong).Finally whay should I do with the Shoota boyz if I put lootas on the objective.

Lootas can't take objectives since they aren't troops. They are just there for fire support. You'll still want a boyz unit to objective camp.

I'd run this:

HQ - 85

Big Mek KFF

Troops - 497

12xBoyz,Nob w/PK,Boss Pole
-Trukk w Red Paint and Reinforced Ram
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK, Bosspole ,2x Big Shoota
20xBoyz,Nob w/PK, Bosspole, 2x BIg Shoota

Elite - 435

5xKommandos (Snikrot)
15xLootas
5xLootas

Heavy - 480

Battlewagon w Red Paint, Deff Rolla, Big Shoota
Battlewagon w Red Paint, Deff Rolla, Big Shoota
7xFlash Gitz w More Dakka and Painboy

Put 20 Boyz in one wagon and the Gitz and KFF in the other wagon. Put the truck behind them and make sure they all get 4+ cover.

Camp the other 20 boyz on an objective on your side and don't really move them. Use the lootas in the back to pop light vehicles or infantry if they are available. Use the kommandos in flank march only to blow up a vehicle or squishy infantry. Avoid power armor at all costs and if there are no viable targets when they show up just put them on your side of the table in cover.

that list looks good but I don't think 5 lootas on their own will do much good,and with those 75 pts I'd buy 2xkommandos with burnas,50pts, and give the boys in the battle wagon rokkits,10pts,and with those final 15pts I'd put some more big shootas on the battle wagons