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I decided to make a Blood Angel army. I have a good core group of mini's, but am curious as to where I should expand.


My List of Minis

HQ:
Termy Librarian with storm bolter
Captain
Captain with LC

Elites:
5 AOBR Terminators
AOBR Dreadnought
5 Sternguard Vets

Troops:
Tactical Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino)
Tactical Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher)
Tactical Squad (Meltagun)
Scout Squad (5 Sniper Rifles)


I need to get some Assault Squads, but I was wondering what I should add to my list of minis, and what some 500 pt, 750 pt, and 1000 pt army lists might look like. Any help is much appreciated.

Well if you are doing Blood Angels at least real Blood Angels you will have you use ther codex. What you have is a space marine army from the space marines codex. Go to the GW website FAQ to download the Blood Angels codex.

I already have the Blood Angels Codex downloaded and such.

My usual advice on the new (awful) BA Codex: It's awful because some units are great, and it more or less forces you into a build...

Veteran Assault Marines are great. Honor Guards with Jump Packs are great. Assault Terminators are pretty good.

IMO, the strongest list you can build with the BA Codex is going to have a lot of Jump Packs. I can't say that based on much experience, since I've shelved my BAs when the new Codex came out, but I'm certain that the point values point that way.

A list that might be worth trying, would be lots of Jump Packs combined with Land Raider(s). The Land Raiders can bring Assault Terminators, and also screen the Pack troops.

s1gns wrote:I already have the Blood Angels Codex downloaded and such.

Aside from the fact that their codex is no longer valid in a tournament setting, you need to be beaten with a shoe.

BUY YOUR OWN BOOKS!



It can't possibly be that difficult to realize that piracy is kinda, well, wrong.

Dronze wrote:

s1gns wrote:I already have the Blood Angels Codex downloaded and such.

Aside from the fact that their codex is no longer valid in a tournament setting, you need to be beaten with a shoe.

BUY YOUR OWN BOOKS!



It can't possibly be that difficult to realize that piracy is kinda, well, wrong.

Uh. Warseer?

Dronze wrote:

Aside from the fact that their codex is no longer valid in a tournament setting, you need to be beaten with a shoe.

BUY YOUR OWN BOOKS!



It can't possibly be that difficult to realize that piracy is kinda, well, wrong.

Umm.... GW offers it free as it was in WD? Think before you post.

Anyway... BA is a rewarding list to play, but you have to make your army work for you. With the list of minis you provided, I think you'd be better off playing vanilla SM. First off, you pay points in each tactical squad for a death company marine. It is not optional. If you don't have any models for death company, the points get wasted. It equates to like 30 points or something each squad is putting in to cover the cost of said marine. Not cheap. Secondly, being a assaulty-type army, you need some assault squads to really benefit (imho). Assault squads as troop choices really help out in 5th ed objective games. Third, you need some more IC s to make the list really competitive. At least a chaplain, or Brother Corbolo, is mandatory to reign in those death company marines. 4th, the scouts count as elite choices in the BA codex, not troop. Furthermore, sternguard vets do not really have a good place in the BA codex. They could be an honor guard for an IC, but that is pretty much it. Finally, the only good librarian for BA is Mephiston, because BA psy powers suck, for the most part. Your HQ choices are better spent buying Dante and Corbolo.

Thing that you have that will fit in:
Tactical squads will be fine once you have a death company squad to make the extra points worth it
Scouts can still be used, just in more limited capacity since they aren't troops in BA.
Termies are actually one of the most cost-effective units of a BA list, because you get a bonus DC trooper for a termy squad but don't pay any more than vanilla SM do!
The dreadnought is fine, just keep in mind if you play BA then get in quick and mix it up where the multi-melta will be more effective anti-armor.
Until you buy more ICs that pertain to BA, your captain and librarian will suffice.

That being said, I can suggest what you need:
Brother Corbolo (Super important, IMHO)
Death company equivalents (I made mine out of regular SM with chainswords and bolt pistols, like an assault squad without jump packs, for a lot cheaper than the going rate is for DCs now.)
Assault squads

Everything else is just supplemental. Bottom line: YOU NEED DC MARINES TO JUSTIFY THE HIGHER COST OF THE TACTICAL SQUADS. If that is the one thing you remember from this post then I did my job.

I suggest checking out this blog, as it is a very good place to pick up new tricks to make your marines more blood angelic.
http://warhammer40kbloodangels.blogspot.com/

Ok, getting down from the soap box. Hope it helps!

on the GW site it has a death company squad for 25 bucks, and a 2nd death company squad for 12. Which one is right? haha. I bought the scout marines and i've found that they totally suck, I wish I hadn't payed for them. You were talking about 30 points a model for DC but you get one free for 6 different squads, that will most likely be taken. So, you'd pay 120 points for a squad of 10 guys. That is pretty common for SM. That's only if I am getting my gak straight. I plan on getting some assault squads, maybe an honor guard. How would that list be.

Brother Corbulo
Honor Guard
DC Squad (2 boxes will be needed)
2 Assault Squads (to start)
3 Tac Squads (Might not use them all)
Termy Squad
Dreadnought
Rhino (Might get a 2nd for the Tac Squad)
Might get a Devastator Squad later on
Maybe a Baal Predator eventually

That seems like a solid start, although now looking back on it, it's a little elite heavy.

the 1st squad (box set):
4 death company with bolt pistol and chainsword, 1 death company with bolt pistol and chainsword / power sword option.


2nd squad (blister pack):
2 death company with bolt pistol and chainsword


if your taking death company then you will need to take a chaplin as the DC will simply wander off to attack random things, with a chaplin they are controled and have more hitting power.

Dev squads are a waste in a BA army, if you want them for anti troop then take a baal, if you want them for anti tank then take a las pred.

Wow, expensive. Brother Corbulo takes care of the DC Squad, so I don't need to worry about filling the Chaplain slot. I need 2 more Assault squads, a 2nd rhino, and a Baal Predator.

i was suggesting a chappy simply so you could take jump packs
either jump packs or a basic transport work, but without either they are pretty much dead.

The enemy I'm hoping.

the FNP and 3+ save is good, but most shooty armies will destroy them early on, knowing that they can do some damage.
only thing that annoys me with DC is the lack of upgrades.

I'm going to have to read the codex because I'm not sure which units have the FNP rule, but I'm guessing the DC.

the DC are mephiston are the only FNP users from what i can remember without loading up the file.

Ahh, that's nice. Mini plague marine minus the 1 toughness.

Yeah. For cost effectiveness, take a rhino with the DC. Jump packs are just too expensive and they don't offer additional protection like a rhino does. If you can put them in a land raider, all the better, because you know they are gonna take an ungodly amount of fire. (People are just as afraid of DC as they are termies, so they tend to dump fire on them to put them down quickly.)

Yeah as I was saying, a cheaper alternative is to buy some tactical marines off ebay or something for cheap, then use chainsword and bolt pistol bits for the arms instead, and then paint them black. they make cheap and good DC. I spent 20 dollars for 2 squads of tac marines off ebay, and another 8 dollars in chainsword and bolt pistol arms, and made 10 DC. I also had the other tactical squad as a bonus! Things are just cheaper that way. The regular DC blisters are just too spendy, IMO.

What I was saying about 30 points a DC is: thats how much more tactical squads cost for BA than vanilla SM. I was just making the case to buy or make models for the DC otherwise the points are wasted.

True, plus they're metal. @_@ Where did you buy the chainswords and bolt pistol arms? eBay as well?


I'm still not sure as to what you're saying. In my current list of mini's, i would have 5 DC units, and would pay 150 points for a full squad. A regular tac squad in the Blood Angels codex is about the same if I recall correctly. It's around 150?

Yeah. For cost effectiveness, take a rhino with the DC. Jump packs are just too expensive and they don't offer additional protection like a rhino does.

So very, very wrong.

You can't assault out of a Rhino. It's AV11 in the front. What sort of protection is that? Rhinos are not effective delivery platforms for assault troops. Shooty troops, like Sisters? Maybe. Not DC. Why pay 40 points to never get to use Furious Charge?

On top of that, you're paying 40 points for a Rhino no matter how many DC you field. If you only can fit 5 in your list? Still paying 40 points. With Jump Packs, it's 5 points per model for a Pack. You can scale the cost down, and with 8 or fewer (which is probably where you'll be), it's even or cheaper to use Packs.

The best defense for strong assault troops is to get into assault. Jump Packs will do that. A Rhino won't.

Also, FWIW, normal Assault Marines are a Troops choice for BAs. A Tac squad to hold your objectives will not be amiss, but they're not a great value for BAs. Going with Assault Marines allows you to overload the enemy with fast moving hitty models.

Ok yeah, maybe I am not explaining this right.

A tactical squad in SM codex = 30 pts less than the EXACT SAME SQUAD in the BA codex.

Therefore, your "free" DC marine is not free. That was the point I was making. Since you paid for them, take the models is the point I was trying to get across.

I got my arms bits from an ebay auctioneer named Hoard O Bits, go for the auctions as the buy it now prices can be a little steep. The competition is not as fierce for MEQs arms, like Black Templar or Dark Angels, but they usually come in larger sets and they have a bunch of extra iconography on them, so it is a tradeoff.

What might a good 750 pt and 1000 pt list look like?

Ahh, alright ill check it out. Thanks FoxPhoenix

Therefore, your "free" DC marine is not free.

This is true for the Tac squads, which is why they're not great bargains. When it comes to Veteran Assault Squads, Honor Guards and Assault Terminators, the value is a lot better.

Tac squads are upcosted by 40 points (with Flamer and ML). Not very good.

Assault Squads are upcosted by 40 points as well, over the current Codex. It was only 30 points in the previous Codex, which was better. That's why I was recommending them over Tacticals. At this point, I guess they break even (my bad).

Terminators, on the other hand, are costed identically to the current SM Codex, meaning you get a FREE DC Marine. Considering how great Thunder Hammer Terminators are these days, it's not a tough call to use a squad or two.

Veteran Assault Squads are a TOTAL no brainer. Even without the DC Marine they provide, they're a deal. Compare them to Vanguard Marines. They have identical statlines, plus Jump Packs, for 30 points. The Vanguards are 35 points each with packs. Their free Power Sword makes them 3 points more in a 5 man squad. Yes, they get Heroic Intervention, but I'd gladly trade that for an extra DC Marine.

Same goes for Honor Guard, but you're limited to 5 man squads.

Could anybody help me with 500, 750, and 1k point lists?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BNIB-Space-Wolves-Blood-Claws-Squad-Save-15_W0QQitemZ260380975825QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Toys_Wargames_RL?hash=item260380975825&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1761|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318


sorry about the huge link, but theres a cheap unit of death company (10 men)
it includes all the bolt pistol and chainsword arms you will ever need for them



also, bear in mind you cant take sternguard when using the BA codex.
so just take assault vets with meltagun x2
you can also throw them in a pod to make sure you drop them when needed.

1 moment and ill start on those lists for you

500 Point BA list:



chaplin: 100

tactical squad: meltagun - 125
razorback: lascannon - 80

tactical squad: 115
razorback: lascannon - 80


BA are annoying at low points, trying to get good anti tank aswell as some normal fire power.
you can allways drop the las on one of the razors to take something else.





750 Point BA list



chaplin: 100

tactical squad: meltagun - 125
razorback: lascannon - 80

tactical squad: 115
razorback: lascannon - 80

Baal predator: heavy bolter sponsons - 125

Baal predator: heavy bolter sponsons - 125



1,000 Point BA list:



chaplin: 100

tactical squad: meltagun - 125
razorback: lascannon - 80

tactical squad: 115
razorback: lascannon - 80

Tactical squad: +5 men, heavy bolter - 200
razorback: 50

Baal predator: heavy bolter sponsons - 125

Baal predator: heavy bolter sponsons - 125



those are just a few smaller builds, i prefer to play 1,500 - 2,500 games, that way you get some better units available.
in smaller games you cant really take vets and death company due to points values, but all these lists should have an ok mix of anti tank and anti infantry.

You don't recommend Brother Corbulo instead of a Chaplain?

i chose a normaly chappy to give you room for changes.
if you need a fist in the army you can simply drop something and upgrade the chappy.
i dont really rate corbulo that highly.

only characters ill usually take are either dante in a fast assault army or meph in a all out CC army.

I was thinking of getting Brother Corbulo though, plus my friends would always allow me to use him as a regular chaplain if i wanted. Dante will be later. Also, thanks for the link for those chainswords and bolt pistols

You can assault out of a close topped vehicle that hasn't moved, so a Rhino driving up 12" can then wait until the next turn to disembark the troops and have them rush out. That's what Chaos does, no reason why BA can't do the same thing.

no probs
i allways use them for assault troops.

none have wolf marks on them (they are extra parts on the sprues)
you do get some nice weapons with em though