harlequins , have they got any use ?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**omar**

today , i was looking at the entry's for the harlequins and i see that they are extremely overpriced and have no use.
think about it , you have to pay a total of 22p for a unit that can do rending , but rending got extremely nerfed in 5th ed , they would do a worse job than banshees , which have a lesser price .

any thoughts ?

**Deff Dread red Edition**

(Sorry if this doesn't help,but here I go).

Are they not a good close combat support unit,maybe just to stop or fend off enemy units or troop movements.(Sorry again if that doesn't help I've never played Eldar before.)

**Orlanth**

Agile, hard to kill and carrying some fusion pistols.

Also they still perform a decent anti horde role.

**Squig_herder**

Here is my task on them:
Harlequines, Eldar's glass hammer, on the charge have S4 [wow, mum look at me go], have the ever nerfed rendering and more attacks then sense, with a high WS, hitting is the fun part, trying to wont is like trying to kill yourself with a blunt spoon. However with around 35 attacks with a full unit, 5-6 of with which are PW [troup master] if you were smart can help cut down a few.

They do however do well at hiding with the shadowseer.

**Razerous**

We're talking more like 41 attacks for a full sqaud, 5 ofwhich should be power weapon attacks. Although with that many hits, wounds and rends, the PW hits are less important while with smaller squads, the fewer amount of rends can be offset by those PW attacks when dealing with a large squad of MEQ's

Always try to have a dooming farseer somwhere

Always always use a shadowseer. You shouldnt use one if thier in a transport but you should use banshees if youve got a spare (elite slot) transport kicking around. The ability to waste entire volleys via the VoT's rule is very useful and a good psych tool.

Concider the usefullness of a small 5-6man squad with a kisses, a shadowseer and a death jester. Small, slightly shooty, quite offensive, not too expensive. Will survive compared to other expenditures of those kinda points in the eldar dex (cept a 5man pathfinder team)

**Mahu**

I have used them when borrowing a friends Eldar army (mostly to prove a point, he thought of them as unusable). I played a few games, and one particular trying game against a Nob Biker, Loota heavy list that ended in a draw.

Long story short, they are most definitely usable, just not the defacto choice that they used to be.

Falcons are still the preferred delivery system, to me anyways. I forwent the shadow seer as I thought it was unnecessary if they are Falcon bound.

Essentially, you have one good round of combat out of them, so you really have to choose your combats wisely. Once they do their damage, they tend to not survive the following rounds.

So give them a troupe master and kisses. Cast doom on your target, and charge away. Even if they only stop an advancing unit, they have justified their existence.

**J.Black**

I tend to find them most useful as footsloggers either advancing with my wraithguard, or staying at the back with my reapers and pathfinders. In both cases i have kisses, deathjester and shadowseer making them a great countercharge unit with a little bit of ranged ability.

The best facet still remains their 'you can't shoot at me' rule which should be abused for cover saves at all possible opportunities.

If you insist on using them as a big squadron of HtH death, be careful where you place them when you assault; if you do it right, you can kill most of the squad, pile into the survivors at the end and then hit-and-run next turn.

**Razerous**

Mahu wrote:
Once they do their damage, they tend to not survive the following rounds.

This would be true, if they didnt come with the hit & run USR. This means they can move off 3d6" which if they have a shadowseer (which is wasted mostly if they came in a falcon..and dragons or DA's are much better placed in falcons anyways) means a chance at life - ive seen people shoot at other units, even when theyve been only about 10" away, because they dont like the idea of wasting shots entirely.

Edit: Basically all of thier special rules require them to be on thier feet or/and be able to get the charge.. which is alot more difficult disembarking from transports.

**Caffran9**

A unit of 10 Harlequins with Kiss (well 9 Kiss and a Troupe Leader with Power Weapon) is superior in combat against the vast majority of targets when compared to a unit of 10 Banshees or Scorpions. Whether or not they're worth the points is a different story entirely.

**AdeptSister**

An Invulnerable save, High Int and WS, and Str 4 on the charge makes them really dangerous. Hitting on 3s first is so very very valuable.

Edit: And if you are so inclined, they do not need kisses. Without them they are still decent.

**Rangerrob**

If yah have the minis yes...

To me they fall into the void between Banshees (MeQ killers) and Scorps (Horde Killers).

So if you have them, all three units, and know what your opponent is fielding...take them as your 2nd CC unit. With scorps if your facing a horde, and with banshees if there is lots of armorsaves out there. But if yah don't already have them...get the other two units first.

They seem balanced compared with the other two CC units...which is in an odd way...UnEldar.

**willydstyle**

Rangerrob wrote:If yah have the minis yes...

To me they fall into the void between Banshees (MeQ killers) and Scorps (Horde Killers).

So if you have them, all three units, and know what your opponent is fielding...take them as your 2nd CC unit. With scorps if your facing a horde, and with banshees if there is lots of armorsaves out there. But if yah don't already have them...get the other two units first.

They seem balanced compared with the other two CC units...which is in an odd way...UnEldar.

But they have tons and tons of special rules, which is very "eldar."

**omar**

hmmm yea with a shadowseer can only be hit by a maximum of 24" weapons , wich is very unlikely . actually , they may be one of the most survivable units in the whole codex eldar .
although rending has been nerfed , they still EAT marines ( especially terminators ) alive.
gotta reconsider them

**Grunt_For_Christ**

The Shadowseers are great to make people choose a target. What I find them useful for is against expensive MC's. It's only a 5+, but is an invul. They'll basically always hit first and with rending they can do a bit. Especially if the target is doomed, which is ALWAYS, as everyone has said, almost mandatory. Anti-horde capacity is good with the hit and run... Without it they're dead, but they're very good at shock tactics and assaulting small numbers of very elite troops or big creatures.

An example: A unit of 5 charge a carnifex. They hit first and need 3's. They have 20 attacks, lets say 12 hit and on a bad day only get 2 wounds via rending. The fex needs 4's to hit and he's probably going to have only 4 attacks to start with. They'll lose one, maybe 2, stay in combat, and definitely kill the beast next turn.

Get them in with a horde of orks or even marines and they'll 5+ will be totally wasted. It's all about numbers of attacks and if you have only a few going against them they'll prove their worth most of the time.

**Casper**

Here is my experience fighting against Quins.

VoT is a decent deturent that lets them footslog unlike Scorps or Banshees (who need transports for protection)

I vew them as weaker to shooting than either Banshees or Scorps because they only have a 5+ inv and are T3, so they won't survive rapid fire if they fail to get stuck in

I would recomend Banshees and Scorps first, depending on your enemy, then take a unit of Quins if you have the space.

**Moncalcruiser**

Hey, what do you guys mean rending got nerfed, it seems ok, did it used to be btr..

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Here's how it used to be: You get 6's to hit, you rend.

Here's how it is now: You hit, get nothing for all your 6's, roll to wound and then try to get 6. Imagine genestealers getting a 6 to hit and getting to skip the second bit of mathhammer: Wounding rolls. But they guys who don't rend still get their normal wounding, so you on average got a lot more rending back then (at least for me).

**Exarch_Nektel**

Here is an example of ho wthay are good.
My squad of 6 harlequins killed a 10-man squad of Black Templars w/ a terminator chaplain. Afterwards, they proceeded to explode the approaching BT dreadnaught.

Here is their downside: the explosion from the dreadnaught killed them all.

**Caffran9**

Moncalcruiser wrote:Hey, what do you guys mean rending got nerfed, it seems ok, did it used to be btr..

Yes, old Rending was basically: Any roll to hit of 6 automatically wounds at AP1 (power weapon). Other hits roll to wound as normal.

This resulted in a lot more overall wounds and a few more AP1 (power weapon) wounds.

If you can afford to play a unit of 10 Harlies including a Shadowseer and Troupe Master (all with Kiss except the TM who has a power weapon) then you're fielding one of the most potent assault units in 40k. They hit harder than Banshees/Scorpions against just about everything. The only problem is that they cost a hell of a lot more.

**Razerous**

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Here is an example of ho wthay are good.
My squad of 6 harlequins killed a 10-man squad of Black Templars w/ a terminator chaplain. Afterwards, they proceeded to explode the approaching BT dreadnaught.

Here is their downside: the explosion from the dreadnaught killed them all.

QFT

Quality.

Perfectly surmises the potentail to win and fail with harlequins.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

That's exactly right... I failed to get enough fleet to charge a unit of genestealers and broodlord in the open and was completely wiped out by a brood of nearby termagaunts. They're very fragile but like caffran said, VERY potent. That same squad of 7 took out a tyrant with all his wounds and one warrior in a squad of 3. They lost 2, passed leadership, then retreated 3D6 into the nearby woods.

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

The thing with harlies is that they used to be able to clear the kill zone and not get swung back at. They can't do that any more (rending nerf + defenders react + engaged at start=get to fight).

**Grunt_For_Christ**

That's exactly right. They aren't nearly as 'swift' as they used to be, if you know what I mean.

**omar**

did harlies have any rules in 3rd/4th edition that made them " special " ?

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

The general rules helped them in 4th.

**Caffran9**

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:The thing with harlies is that they used to be able to clear the kill zone and not get swung back at. They can't do that any more (rending nerf + defenders react + engaged at start=get to fight).

eh, if a unit of 10 with Kisses/Troupe Master power weapon charge a unit of 10 marines, the marines all die before they get to swing back (the kill zone is cleared because the unit is completely cleared

). The issue here is that the Harlies are now in the middle of nowhere ready to be shot down/counter charged by something very mean. The rending nerf hampers them quite a bit, but it isn't the end of the world as they still bring 4 attacks each at str4 on the charge.

Otherwise, the 5+ invulnerable isn't bad if they're Fortuned.

Basically, they're still rather heavy hitting, they just need some Farseer support a bit more now than before (like the rest of the Eldar army lol).