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Once again a Word Bearers thread, but this is something I'm not really getting. Lorgar split the Legion in two, one half would remain near Terra (posing as Loyalists) while the other half moved on to Calth to attack the Ultramarines.

If Lorgar is posing as a loyalist this means that this probably happened before the Drop Site Massacre on Istvaan V right? But, if that were the case. Wouldn't the Emperor eventually find out that there is something wrong with the Word Bearers when they only want to send in half of their Legion to stop Horus, and wouldn't the Ultramarines try to send a message to Terra about the betrayal?

I've been trying to look through the timelines which of the two happened first, but I can't find anything specific on it.

Anybody with ideas here?

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I agree. Also Id imagine if they were planning something serious, they would try their damnedest nt to let the Emperor know.

So...which one happened first, the Drop Site Massacres or the Invasion of Calth? Were Word Bearers from the massacre also present on Calth?

During the Horus Heresy, Calth was used by Roboute Guilliman as a staging point for his supposed assault on the Veridan System. Horus had ordered the Ultramarines there to divert them from the Siege of Terra. It was there that they were attacked by a force of the Word Bearers legion.

Taken from Lexicanum so perhaps not 100% reliable, but from that I can safely say it was after the Drop Site Massacre. I guess Gulliman never got wind of the Siege on Terra/Istvaan until it was too late.

Since all Legions who have replied to messages sent to them and accepted to move were gathered at the istvaan massacre, its possible to assume that the Ultramarines were
not contacted through the efforts of the word bearers allies.
As far as "battle for the abyss" goes, the word bearers planned to attacked the unaware ultramarines, so any distress call from rogal dorn to act against horus betrayal
would unveil the truth.

So:

-calth had to be attacked in the early stages of heresy, before the UM get any intend to move to terra.
-word bearers are not reported as part of the istvaan massacre.

But the Emperor did send the Word Bearers to Istvaan and they turned on the first wave of Loyalists.

I guess it would make sense that the Word Bearers were also responsible for making sure the Ultramarines wouldn't find out about Horus' betrayal until the Word Bearers attacked Calth.

By the way, Battle for the Abyss kind of ended with the Furious Abyss being blown up and the Ultramarine hero sacrificing his life. However, did the surviving loyalists send messages to the rest of the Imperium or was it already too late around that time?

Oh, right. 8 vs 3. forgot the WB.

I think its obviously the work of the word beares to forge the alliance between the creatures of the warp and the traitor primarchs.
The warp is used for transfer and messages , so those capable of interacting with the immaterium itself will be also those who stop movement or delay messages.

Taken from Index astartes IV / word bearers: (translated, no quote)

"When kor phaeron attacked calth, his primarch lorgar marched against terra"

Since "flight of the eisenstein" had the troubles of a journey through the warp against the will of chaos in it,
also the loyalist members of the traitor legions couldn't warn the other legions,
it seems Horus allies/masters had enough control over their environment to ensure that warnings came too late.

The detachment of the imperial fists sent to help out was called back IIRC.
So possible to think about the massacre not going unnoticed.

1hadhq wrote:also the loyalist members of the traitor legions couldn't warn the other legions,

has anyone stopped to think the reason no one was able to warn the Ultramarines is because they were all dead?

Gwar! wrote:

1hadhq wrote:also the loyalist members of the traitor legions couldn't warn the other legions,

has anyone stopped to think the reason no one was able to warn the Ultramarines is because they were all dead?

prove it

1hadhq wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

1hadhq wrote:also the loyalist members of the traitor legions couldn't warn the other legions,

has anyone stopped to think the reason no one was able to warn the Ultramarines is because they were all dead?

prove it

I don't need too, it was all just a ruse because the Ultramarines are really Alpha Legion!

Ah and Guilliman is Omegon is disguise right?

Malika2 wrote:Ah and Guilliman is Omegon is disguise right?

It's all Part of the Master Plan!

Gwar! wrote:

Malika2 wrote:Ah and Guilliman is Omegon is disguise right?

It's all Part of the Master Plan!

Explain.

Well you see, everyone thinks that Gulliman and Alpharus had this big feud right, but that never happened because Alpharus and Gulliman were the same person, and he has secretly garbled up the records to make people think they are different people. So, the Ultramarines are really a huge Alpha Legion Sleeper Cell, and are biding their time to strike (and it should be Soon™, I mean, the "ultramarines" have 90% of the chapters at their beck and call, and they have a metric fuckton of guardsmen....)

Got any proof of that?

I think we'll wait for such proof until the hell freezes over

By the way, Battle for the Abyss kind of ended with the Furious Abyss being blown up and the Ultramarine hero sacrificing his life. However, did the surviving loyalists send messages to the rest of the Imperium or was it already too late around that time?

I thought it was the SW Captain that caused the engine to overload? The UM captain took out Kor Phaeron.

Malika2 wrote:Got any proof of that?

Prove that its not true!

In the 41st Millenium, there is no innocence!

Gwar! wrote:

Malika2 wrote:Got any proof of that?

Prove that its not true!

In the 41st Millenium, there is no innocence!

We're still waiting for an answer, not excuses.

o.0 You took me seriously?

It was a joke, meant to lampoon the relationship between the Ultramarines and Alpha Legion as well as satirise the Alpha Legions reputation for being involved in lots of diabolical plots

Hmm, I was hoping you would make up some "proof", true Alpha Legion style. I guess you're not worthy of that sort of thing yet!

Malika2 wrote:Hmm, I was hoping you would make up some "proof", true Alpha Legion style. I guess you're not worthy of that sort of thing yet!

HA Please. Did it not occur to you that this is all an elaborate misdirection to ensure you don't see the Truth?!









OR IS IT!?

Sneaky bugger!

But yeah...back on topic, can anybody help me out here?

As I said, it most likely happened very shortly after. Don't forget that interplanetary communication is slow at best. The Ultrasmurfs probably never knew about the Dropsite until well after.

I would think both happened at nearly the same time, as Kor Phaeron seemed to be on a timetable throughout the book and was worried about being late.

Ironhide wrote:I would think both happened at nearly the same time, as Kor Phaeron seemed to be on a timetable throughout the book and was worried about being late.

The "furious abyss" was built by the arch -traitor Fabricator general kelbor hal, so the treachery on Mars may not be known when the Word bearers began their
space travel to Calth. The war on mars had some hints on the dropsite massacre, its possible to assume it was Horus plan to keep the UM not only far away from
the real important action but also have the attacks at the loyalists in short order to seed confusion and doubt.

Well, the Furious Abyss wasn't built on Mars. The Word Bearers could have corrupted members of the Mechanicum prior to converting Horus to the Chaos Gods. My thinking is the Word Bearers did a lot of behind the scenes work before going after Horus. Basic set-up of an underground network and insurgency, just needing the right man to lead it.