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I decided to start a Tyranid army based upon a few factor, mostly due to the fact that they play entirely different then anything I have played before.

The idea is to build a list to tackle some of the more competitive lists out there. Blood Crushers? Implant Attack. Nob Bikers? Implant attack. Ork Horde? Catalyste Gaunts. IG Gun Line? Out flank or first turn scout.

I used the Army Builder text output because I wanted to make sure my posted list reflected all the options I have chosen.



HQ: Hive Tyrant (4#, 301 Pts)
1 Hive Tyrant @ 301 Pts
Acid Maw; Implant Attack; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Lash Whip & Bonesword; Scything Talons (x1); Synapse Creature; The Horror; The Shadow in the Warp
3 Tyrant Guard @ [153] Pts
Implant Attack; Rending Claws; Scything Talons

HQ: Broodlord (7#, 291 Pts)
1 Broodlord @ 291 Pts
Extended Carapace +1 Save; Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Rending Claws; Scything Talons; Synapse Creature
6 Genestealers @ [186] Pts
Extended Carapace +1 Save; Feeder Tendrils; Implant Attack; Scuttlers; Rending Claws; Scything Talons

Elite: Carnifex (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x2)

Elite: Carnifex (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x2)

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Genestealers (8#, 184 Pts)
8 Genestealers @ 184 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Implant Attack; Scuttlers; Rending Claws

Troops: Genestealers (8#, 184 Pts)
8 Genestealers @ 184 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Implant Attack; Scuttlers; Rending Claws

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 140 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 140 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x1); Venom Cannon

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 140 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 140 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x1); Venom Cannon

Total Roster Cost: 1850


So what do you think? Will it be competitive?

I think your 'fexes kinda suck...


Carnifex are best served in a focused role... they aren't Warriors, and gain no benefit for the "balanced" routine.

I included the Venom Cannons simply for some defense against skimmers, a stunned Valkrie is an ignorable one after all.

I would gladly trade them for Crushing Claws if the argument is right.

A focused attack on your Synapse could leave this army in a very bad position.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt to get some warriors in there.

I would drop an Elite Carnifex (maybe both) for a couple medium size units of Warriors. Make them leaping or flying to get to the other side of the board for when your gaunts show up, or they will be one turn wonders.

Well, I was figuring I would either be sticking close to the Tyrant and make a first turn scout move, or outflanking near the Broodlord.

It isn't a concrete plan, and I can understand the argument for more protection. I would just hate to loose a Carnifex.

is it legal to use carnifexes as elites

@wildman270wsm - Yes, if under 115 points.

For 1850 you'd be facing a LOT. This list is great I think, but there just aren't enough troops or synapse to support them. If you get a great scout move with the gaunts they'll be barely holding on to synapse because there's only 1 creature that will be helping keep all 4 broods in line. It'll be very hard to use those gaunts tactically if they all are tied to just 1 synapse point.

I also think that there are a lot of wasted points when it comes to wargear. The genestealer retinue ends up being 31 point per model. Imagine how many more you could have if you took off everything from them and left them with +1 save.

Give feeder tendrils to the broodlord so all the stealers benefit from it anyways. You'd have a stealer that are 20 point so for 186 you'll have 9 stealers instead of 6. That would be another 6 attacks (with rerolls) or 9 attacks on the charge as opposed to getting 6 attacks with the scything talons.

I say take off biomorphs. Tyranids cannot field a good elite army... That's just not what we do. Strip off some stuff, add more gaunts or stealers, cheapen up the fexes to make it a difficult choice for which big one to shoot at, and see your swarm grow in power.

This is just a suggestion and that's how I play because elite bug squads just fail so quickly when against power anything heavy squads (i.e. space wolves). More wounds is what keeps me going. Maybe it'll work for you, maybe it won't, but I'd at least consider it.

Thank you for the advice.

Part of the inspiration for this list came from seeing a Fateweaver/Bloodcrusher list just demolished by Implant Attack heavy Tyranids

I think you are right that there is probably a bit too much going towards Biomorphs.

After some though, here is my new list:

1850 Pts - Tyranids Roster - Unnamed

HQ: Hive Tyrant (4#, 292 Pts)
1 Hive Tyrant @ 292 Pts
Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Lash Whip & Bonesword; Scything Talons (x1); Synapse Creature; The Horror; The Shadow in the Warp
3 Tyrant Guard @ [156] Pts
Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Rending Claws; Scything Talons

- Lessen some of the upgrades, added flesh hooks. He is still my anti-psyker unit with Shadow in the warp, and he can handle most huge units with Implant Attack and an ungodly amount of wounds. Catalyst helps everybody get their attacks in regardless on how badly the units may be mauled in close combat.

HQ: Broodlord (7#, 239 Pts)
1 Broodlord @ 239 Pts
Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Rending Claws; Scything Talons; Synapse Creature
6 Genestealers @ [144] Pts
Extended Carapace +1 Save; Feeder Tendrils; Implant Attack; Rending Claws

- Since Implant Attack and Feeder Tendrils are a one or the other option on the Broodlord, I sent them on the Retinue.I realized Scuttlers where useless on this unit since the Broodlord doesn't get them, and I can still outflank with Infiltrate.

Elite: Warriors (3#, 81 Pts)
3 Warriors @ 81 Pts
Extended Carapace +1 Save; Rending Claws (x1); Scything Talons (x1); Synapse Creature

-I worked them in. I made them cheap but useful.

Elite: Carnifex (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x2)

Elite: Carnifex (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x2)

-They stayed the same.

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (12#, 96 Pts)
12 Gaunt Brood @ 96 Pts
Scuttlers; Fleshborer

-They stayed the same.

Troops: Genestealers (8#, 184 Pts)
8 Genestealers @ 184 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Implant Attack; Scuttlers; Rending Claws

Troops: Genestealers (8#, 184 Pts)
8 Genestealers @ 184 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Implant Attack; Scuttlers; Rending Claws

-Feeder Tendrils are just too good for the points. Implant Attack is the cornerstone of the list as is Scuttlers. I figured Extended Carapace was not a useful anymore with cover saves and the amount of AP 4 weapons on the table.

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 130 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Crushing Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 130 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Toxic Miasma; Crushing Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

-Traded Venom Cannons for Crushing Claws, something I have been tempted with. Who needs shooting?

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Very nice! Having the extra synapse will be VERY useful, you can trust me on that. Also, while I love the rending/scything on the warriors, but I'd seriously recommend replacing scyhting talons with deathspitters. A S5 24" assault weapon will help the gaunts a lot, and they'll be able to get a lot more use on their long journey upfield.

Also, though crushing claws are the COOLEST looking, they're a huge point-sink. 25 points and on average you'll get 4 attacks, maybe only 3. For half those points you can get the same amount with a mace/scythe tail & scything talons.

I've used crushing claws and at exactly the wrong time you'll end up getting that dreaded 1 when you really need 4 attacks. If you took those off and put in another pair of talons you'd save almost 24 points, which could go towards another warrior to make that squad a lot more survivable. Also, losing venom cannons will make you totally vulnerable to tanks for at least 2 turns. I never, ever like that, especially since we have so little AT to start with.

Besides that, taking the carapace off of the stealers has its ups and downs. They'll have plenty of cover saves if they're behind gaunts, but you'll be infiltrating them. That means you'll absolutely have to have cover on both sides of the board for when you come in. I'm still waffling between do or don't, because having it is really nice when you're in a protracted battle against MEQ's. The difference between 4 and 5 for those rifle-butt saves is golden. But for every 5 guys it goes on, you basically lose 1 from the squad. So I'm not sure... At least you got more synapse to help out your little guys, right?

Very nice!

And for a name, I say call it Hive Fleet SwapsALot.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Also, though crushing claws are the COOLEST looking, they're a huge point-sink. 25 points and on average you'll get 4 attacks, maybe only 3. For half those points you can get the same amount with a mace/scythe tail & scything talons.

Who needs a tail? If you're running a CC 'fex, you're running it to put an ungodly hoarde of s9 or 10 attacks on that AV14 that we have so much trouble with.

Even at a 2+ or 3+ save, it's not synapse, and it's not an invul save. Carnifexes aren't exactly the greatest anti-infantry CC beasts on the block, but they'll do wonders to sweep up the detrius and deal with larger, harder threats.

What I was doing was trying to give him an option for arming the fex on the cheap. You're right that they aren't the greatest anti infantry, but I've found out that they're wonderful against sisters. Well, for that matter, they do so well with any large unit that could be tying up an objective that's t3 with one power something-or-other.

You're right about having to deal with harder threats, but I think mainly vehicles. Against power fists on terminators or even in power armour elite squads fexes fall because of their low initiative. You're absolutely right about dealing with high AV tanks. With 5th I think that's really where they shine.

Even though i'm pritty much new to 40k and Tyranids, I would consider putting flesh hooks on some of your units. They really help in climbing over obstacles especially with your broodlord when it inflitrates behind a building or something impassable.

The problem with flesh hooks is that it makes you loose the Feeder Tendril/Implant Attack combo I am relying on.

Optimally, I would be hitting units with Gaunts first, then following up with the bigger stuff.

I would seriously consider dropping the guants for more genestealers.
What do you actually intend for the guants to do?

Gaunts = 4+ cover save for everybody and cheap scoring unit, which frees up genestealers to do what they do: Eat infantry.

Then why not spineguants much cheaper for the same job, anyway those genestealer squads are so flimsy most armies could remove them in a single turn.

Then what do you have to assault? carnifexs

cheaper guants = more genestealers, they just aren't a major threat at 1850 in such small numbers. You have 144 points in bloated upgrades for cannon fodder. Thats another genestealer brood, also have you considered acid maw instead of scything talons it really helps against tough units and gives you more rend chances.

When I said gaunts I actually had spinegaunts in mind... Termagaunts are great, but that extra point is a waste I think.

I believe you're right about having big numbers. Genestealers in small numbers are useless because they're overpriced even though they carry a lot of punch. In 3 squads of 12 however, if even half get through they'll tear through a lot. And at 1850 I usually have at least 24 or 36 if I'm not bringing a broodlord and retinue.

Have you had any luck with zonatropes?
A choir with either synapse or warp blast could go a long way to guarantees breaks as well as beefing up on synase or a little shooting to soften up a unit before the charge.

Aoans are indeed wonderful, but only when you max out. Synapse is awesome and with the new blast rules the warp blast is twice as effective as his BS is only 3. Though that's lessened by the fact of cover saves, but that's all in tactics...

I haven't seen a Choir List since 4th Edition, though I may try it down the line.

I went with Termagaunts due to the fact that I came into contact with 40 of them for cheap.

As is often the reason for fielding sub par units... I came into 10 warriors for the price of 3 and they were primed, build, and armed with what I wanted. They aren't the best, but I saved 70%.

So many ways to build a Tyranid list. I'm glad that your major concern is not all-out points efficiency and powergaming.

There have been some good battle reports on this site for people that use nearly all outflanking 'Nid armies. His is usually comprised of a Broodlord, 3 Lictors, and the rest spent on outflanking 'stealers!

A good base of Tyrants and Carnifexes with the rest spent on 'stealers is what I like to play with. Used to use Raveners and Zoanthropes, but left them behind in 4th Edition. Used a group of 4 Warriors with deathspitters for awhile, just because I like the way they look.

Quick note: I am pretty darn sure implant attack and feeder tendrils are both 'head' biomorphs and you can't have both at once (even if Army Builder says you can).

Re: your evolving list. Synergy is important to Tyranids. You've got to think about synapse, but there are other things to consider during the movement and shooting phase.

Who is going to be moving forward aggressively and who is going to approach and take objectives? Some of your synapse units might want to be foregoing their shooting in order to run, so arm them accordingly.

How are you going to deal with mechanized lists? They will use their vehicles to limit/block your movement and divide your forces.

Which broods are going to take and hold objectives in/near your deployment zone?

Taking some Lictors could greatly increase your chance of outflankers coming in at the correct time and can also cause some upfield disruption.

Last suggestion - I would consider taking dakkafexes instead of CC Elite fexes. I know everyone takes them, but they are just about the best unit in the game!

- Blackbone

Blackbone wrote:So many ways to build a Tyranid list. I'm glad that your major concern is not all-out points efficiency and powergaming.

There have been some good battle reports on this site for people that use nearly all outflanking 'Nid armies. His is usually comprised of a Broodlord, 3 Lictors, and the rest spent on outflanking 'stealers!

A good base of Tyrants and Carnifexes with the rest spent on 'stealers is what I like to play with. Used to use Raveners and Zoanthropes, but left them behind in 4th Edition. Used a group of 4 Warriors with deathspitters for awhile, just because I like the way they look.

Quick note: I am pretty darn sure implant attack and feeder tendrils are both 'head' biomorphs and you can't have both at once (even if Army Builder says you can).

Re: your evolving list. Synergy is important to Tyranids. You've got to think about synapse, but there are other things to consider during the movement and shooting phase.

Who is going to be moving forward aggressively and who is going to approach and take objectives? Some of your synapse units might want to be foregoing their shooting in order to run, so arm them accordingly.

How are you going to deal with mechanized lists? They will use their vehicles to limit/block your movement and divide your forces.

Which broods are going to take and hold objectives in/near your deployment zone?

Taking some Lictors could greatly increase your chance of outflankers coming in at the correct time and can also cause some upfield disruption.

Last suggestion - I would consider taking dakkafexes instead of CC Elite fexes. I know everyone takes them, but they are just about the best unit in the game!

- Blackbone

You are totally correct with the synergy and lictor comments. With the new guard codex smiting outflankers we'll need all the help we can get. I only have 1 lictor but that one extra roll has saved me on numerous occasions. With the lictor giving everyone else within a few inches the ability to reroll hits I've found it very effective to put the lictor near terminators and get a tyrant/carnifex in there so everyone gets to reroll their hits and with pushing the I value of the fex up to 2, everyone goes before terminators and it's been brutally effective. For hordes I try and get the lictor in with my CC warriors and it works terribly well. Synapse seems to have almost gone by the wayside in 5th because so many people are going with stealers now, but gaunts are the best 4+ cover save you can get for valuable units, and since they're fearless when within synapse, they can still hold objectives better than any other unit. Redundancy is the key, so I second Blackbone's emotion. You simply can't rely on just 1 synapse creature, no matter how few broods you have.