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 rvd1ofakind wrote:
WTF do you even do with a Nurgle Daemons army CP wise...
Or trait wise...
Or artifact wise...

Khorne and Slaanesh are simple - deepstrike troops and charge
Tzeentch has the most things I can see working.
Nurgle has Nurglings.

I want to make atleast a semi competitive list. I can see footslogging working with Bell GUO buffing himself so much that people wouldn't want to shoot him. But then what do you use CP for?

Deepstrike 6 beasts with snaily? And some, maybe, plaguebearers so snaily doesn't die?
Deepstrike a ton of plaguebearers with characters to buff them?
Deepstrike GUO?

All of this seems meh compared to 3D6 charge with Khorne or Pinks with Herald

I don't understand. Your problem is that Nurgle is to good to use CP on? Cuz thats what it looks like you're saying to me.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
WTF do you even do with a Nurgle Daemons army CP wise...
Or trait wise...
Or artifact wise...

Khorne and Slaanesh are simple - deepstrike troops and charge
Tzeentch has the most things I can see working.
Nurgle has Nurglings.

I want to make atleast a semi competitive list. I can see footslogging working with Bell GUO buffing himself so much that people wouldn't want to shoot him. But then what do you use CP for?

Deepstrike 6 beasts with snaily? And some, maybe, plaguebearers so snaily doesn't die?
Deepstrike a ton of plaguebearers with characters to buff them?
Deepstrike GUO?

All of this seems meh compared to 3D6 charge with Khorne or Pinks with Herald

I don't understand. Your problem is that Nurgle is to good to use CP on? Cuz thats what it looks like you're saying to me.

To me it read more like Nurgle units are so mediocre that using CP on them is a waste.

I was under the impression that the role of Nurgle daemons was to be a pain in the ass to kill rather than anything else and they do a decent job of it.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
WTF do you even do with a Nurgle Daemons army CP wise...
Or trait wise...
Or artifact wise...

Khorne and Slaanesh are simple - deepstrike troops and charge
Tzeentch has the most things I can see working.
Nurgle has Nurglings.

I want to make atleast a semi competitive list. I can see footslogging working with Bell GUO buffing himself so much that people wouldn't want to shoot him. But then what do you use CP for?

Deepstrike 6 beasts with snaily? And some, maybe, plaguebearers so snaily doesn't die?
Deepstrike a ton of plaguebearers with characters to buff them?
Deepstrike GUO?

All of this seems meh compared to 3D6 charge with Khorne or Pinks with Herald

I played a 1k tournament today and did well with a mono-Nurgle army. Out of my 3 games I lost at most 200 points worth of models while my opponents ended with only a unit or two left. I had superior board control and was able to capitalize on objectives as well.

Here is how I break it down:
Stack -1 hit buffs. This means casting Miasma of Pestilence, having your warlord with Plaguefly Hive, having plaguebearers in 20+ man squads. This typically reduces your opponents damage by at least 25%. Your goal is to win through attrition, so your survival is #1.
Play aggressively. This means deep striking in your plaguebearers close to the enemy or onto multiple objectives (or both!), using Nurglings to tie up enemy shooting, running fast units (plague drones, daemon princes) up the board and smash into the enemy. Basically threat saturation for your opponent. If they focus on one threat there is going to be another that will punish them. Ensure that your units are locking the enemy in combat, surround enemy models so they can't fall back.
The Nurgle Locus is surprisingly good especially when stacked with Virulent Blessing. Having Plague Drones cause 3 damage on a 5, and 5 damage on a 6 is massive, especially against vehicles where you are normally wounding on a 5+ or 6+.
Nurgle stratagems are terrible IMO. You are mostly looking at Denzens of the Warp. Daemonic Possession is situational but useful. Otherwise your BRB reroll stratagem is the next most used.
For relics the Horn of Nurgle's Rot can be quite useful. A Daemon Prince can potentially (with super lucky rolling) make 7 plaguebearers a turn, more reasonably 3. Excellent in bolstering your hoard when charging chaff though. Entropic Knell is also useful, but less so then the Horn. I wouldn't bother with Corruption.

I hope that helps guide you with your Nurgle. For reference my list I used is below. I played against Admech, Eldar, and Space Wolves:

Battalion Detachment
DP of Nurgle - Mal talons, Horn of Nurgle's Rot, Plaguefly Hive, Miasma of Pestilence
Poxbringer - Virulent Blessing

3 x Nurglings
6 x Nurglings
30 x Plaguebearers - Icon / Instrument

9 x Plague Drones - Icon / Instrument

I'm thinking 2k pts:
epidemius, herald, stern taskmaster dude, piper dude.
2x 30 bearers with stuff
4x3 nurglings
a bunch of drones
6 beasts, snaily and fortification

It's just that putting them all together seems difficults
I wanna avoid DPs as they aren't great if I'm getting the re-roll 1s from epidemius anyway.

Could I get some opinions on a mono-Tzeentch army? What would you personally include in a 1,300pts list, artifacts, deepstrike CP's?

So far I've seen Flamers & Pinks are a must to deepstrike. Would you consider taking Magnus?

Why do people insist on taking flamers?

Pinks are better in every way. Most importantly - they trounce flamers in durability. Flamers suck.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why do people insist on taking flamers?

Pinks are better in every way. Most importantly - they trounce flamers in durability. Flamers suck.

well thats not entirely true flamers out dps horrors against ever target except GEQ where horrors are king. ON top fo that horrors fall off considerably once they lose 11 models, so much so it kinda shrinks the durability as your damage out put shrinks by 57.66% when yopu lose 11 models in the unit.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why do people insist on taking flamers?

Pinks are better in every way. Most importantly - they trounce flamers in durability. Flamers suck.

It depends what youre using them for.
Flamers are far more self sufficient. Being S4 -1 base means they are more effective vs the most common enemies, dont need the various buffs so much, so you can run 6 flamers on their own instead of 20 horrors and a herald. Plus fly and autohits have their own selling points - your 30 man horror blob gets rather useless when stuck in combat yet enemies will be reluctant to charge flamers and you can leave combat whenever you want

Well maybe it's because I'm looking from the points of view of "Bloodletters handle anything flamers can, but better"


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mmimzie wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why do people insist on taking flamers?

Pinks are better in every way. Most importantly - they trounce flamers in durability. Flamers suck.

well thats not entirely true flamers out dps horrors against ever target except GEQ where horrors are king. ON top fo that horrors fall off considerably once they lose 11 models, so much so it kinda shrinks the durability as your damage out put shrinks by 57.66% when yopu lose 11 models in the unit.

Yes, but when you lose those 11 pinks, you'd almost lose your entire flamer unit instead... It's +1 wound and toughness for 21 more points. That's not a good deal. Pinks almost have double the durability.
And the current meta game isn't charging, it's shooting. I'd like to be wrong, as I have 9 flamers... But Pinks just seem to straight up outclass them most of the time. Yes, flamers CAN be more useful situationally, however when you're making a list, you want it to do well more of then than not. Which is why you pick the optimal choice - pinks.

I like em both, but one other thing to remember is there are lots of ways to get -1 to hit. I'll take an extreme example of Shadow Spectres which can be buffed to be -3 or 4 to hit... that's pretty outrageous. Also there are lots of things that want to be in your face and flamers can light them up at the full 12" while automatically hitting.

What I'm trying to get at is there are uses for both, and looking solely at the numbers isn't always an effective way of determining a units worth.

Trasvi wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why do people insist on taking flamers?

Pinks are better in every way. Most importantly - they trounce flamers in durability. Flamers suck.

It depends what youre using them for.
Flamers are far more self sufficient. Being S4 -1 base means they are more effective vs the most common enemies, dont need the various buffs so much, so you can run 6 flamers on their own instead of 20 horrors and a herald. Plus fly and autohits have their own selling points - your 30 man horror blob gets rather useless when stuck in combat yet enemies will be reluctant to charge flamers and you can leave combat whenever you want

I'm fairly sure the most common enemy is still guard and brimstones despite various nerfs both will still be seen in good numbers, and both are more vulnerable to ink horrors

rvd1ofakind wrote:Well maybe it's because I'm looking from the points of view of "Bloodletters handle anything flamers can, but better"


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mmimzie wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why do people insist on taking flamers?

Pinks are better in every way. Most importantly - they trounce flamers in durability. Flamers suck.

well thats not entirely true flamers out dps horrors against ever target except GEQ where horrors are king. ON top fo that horrors fall off considerably once they lose 11 models, so much so it kinda shrinks the durability as your damage out put shrinks by 57.66% when yopu lose 11 models in the unit.

Yes, but when you lose those 11 pinks, you'd almost lose your entire flamer unit instead... It's +1 wound and toughness for 21 more points. That's not a good deal. Pinks almost have double the durability.
And the current meta game isn't charging, it's shooting. I'd like to be wrong, as I have 9 flamers... But Pinks just seem to straight up outclass them most of the time. Yes, flamers CAN be more useful situationally, however when you're making a list, you want it to do well more of then than not. Which is why you pick the optimal choice - pinks.

Sure they aren't durable but as everyone has says we are playing like 2 turn games and then struggling through the last turns with minimal models in most games for all armies. So the durability altitle bit isnt that big a deal. even more so if you get to deepstrike and shoot first. That said that's another note to pinks as they ahve more range.

Also in my list a while ago you said why not skulltaker and in that list with one squad of 30 blood letters i wonder why you thought skulltaker beats out a bloodmaster??

Well most of the -1 is outside 12'', right? So if you can place flamers, with their 12'' range, within range to shoot, you can place pinks as well, which shoot better.

I'll admit, I'm not too aware of all the -1 buffs out there, however flamers are working up a huge cliff - their subpar durability. Damage wise they can't be just "better situationally". They have to be better ALWAYS. Durability is more important than damage in 8th (obviously, you have to have both). There are a lot of units with great damage per point, but at the end of the day, if they die to a gentle gust of wind and don't see as much play.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
I like em both, but one other thing to remember is there are lots of ways to get -1 to hit. I'll take an extreme example of Shadow Spectres which can be buffed to be -3 or 4 to hit... that's pretty outrageous. Also there are lots of things that want to be in your face and flamers can light them up at the full 12" while automatically hitting.

What I'm trying to get at is there are uses for both, and looking solely at the numbers isn't always an effective way of determining a units worth.

I agreee i think in general are better though, but definitly there is space for flamers.

I use 3 squads of flamers almost all the time when I go tzeench, but I don't ds them. Their movement is good enough that it isn't an issue, and the squad small enough you can hide behind cover in case you didn't get first turn.

Their speed, range, auto hit, these make them incredibly useful for board control. You don't want to charge these guys, or let them get near you, but if you focus fire on them 4++ can be tough to get through and your not shooting at anything more valuable.

I mean if your staring at 9 flamers in groups of 3 and 30 bloodletters, all in range to do something, what are you going to shoot at? Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

For sure, and they are going to be better against different things too.

So points wise, 5 flamers is the same as 20 pink horrors. Attacks wise, 5D6 vs 60... which sounds pretty intense. That would be 15 to 20 average hits (flamers) vs 30 hits (pinks). If we are attacking something that's T3, 10 wounds for the flamers (on the low end) and 15 for the pinks. If it's a 4+ save base, then we have 6 or 7 wounds that get through for the flamers (since - 1AP) and 7 or 8 for the pinks. I used round numbers because math

So I did that really quick in my head which is definitely not the most reliable calculator, but it should give you an idea. This doesn't take I to account things like heralds, daemon prince's, spells or strategems. It also doesn't take I to account range, -1 or greater to hit, or any of the other myriad factors in a 3D battle space.

They also have a similar threat range, despite their actual footprint being significantly different (which is both good and bad).

Lastly I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, I honestly think they are pretty equal as long as they are used according to their strengths and the current situation. I personally love them both

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well maybe it's because I'm looking from the points of view of "Bloodletters handle anything flamers can, but better"

Yeah. Like dying. You know what my Flamers find hilarious? The idea of 5d6 auto hits wounding on 3s against 20-30 man Bloodletters, dropping them under 20, removing their squad buffs.

You're tunneling, as usual, too hard.


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Azuza001 wrote:
I use 3 squads of flamers almost all the time when I go tzeench, but I don't ds them. Their movement is good enough that it isn't an issue, and the squad small enough you can hide behind cover in case you didn't get first turn.

Their speed, range, auto hit, these make them incredibly useful for board control. You don't want to charge these guys, or let them get near you, but if you focus fire on them 4++ can be tough to get through and your not shooting at anything more valuable.

I mean if your staring at 9 flamers in groups of 3 and 30 bloodletters, all in range to do something, what are you going to shoot at? Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

Exactly. The final note here is the important one. Daemons were and still are about target saturation. Do not allow your opponent to have a good decision. You force their hand, you trip them up, you control the game.

Well I wouldn't charge flamers with fn letters. Even considering that makes you "tunnel" more than me. (ah yes, I'll charge my T3 models into autohit S4 stuff when I can deepstrike them to select the optimal target. durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) I'd shoot them with pinks.

Right now I see 3 essential units: Pinks, Letters and Nurglings. With support from: Khorne DP, Tzeentch herald. Sometimes Skulltaker and Tzeentch DP.

Does anybody see a good use of 30 plaguebearer in a multi god army?

All the talk is about tcheentz and Khorne, which in also have, and nurglings, but would also like to know if you guys think there is room for the PB as I just rebase de 30 of them

Had them in my tournament list. But just removed them to make the BPN(Bloodletters, Pinks, Nurglings. Totally should adopt this abbreviation D: ) core better.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well I wouldn't charge flamers with fn letters. Even considering that makes you "tunnel" more than me. (ah yes, I'll charge my T3 models into autohit S4 stuff when I can deepstrike them to select the optimal target. durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) I'd shoot them with pinks.

Right now I see 3 essential units: Pinks, Letters and Nurglings. With support from: Khorne DP, Tzeentch herald. Sometimes Skulltaker and Tzeentch DP.

I didn't imply that's what you said. I made a separate point after stating bloodletters are better than Flamers at dying.

Tunneling is in regards to your statement of Bloodletters being better at everything.

I then went on to make a separate point of target saturation, literally to prove a point of removing an optimal choice.

I genuinely don't know what else to tell you.


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kaintxu wrote:
Does anybody see a good use of 30 plaguebearer in a multi god army?

All the talk is about tcheentz and Khorne, which in also have, and nurglings, but would also like to know if you guys think there is room for the PB as I just rebase de 30 of them

I think Plaguebearers have their purpose, for sure. They're wonderful little tarpit that will frustrate low-mid table opponents. For most people that's all that will matter anyway.

Except flamers are less durable than even bloodletters. They have about the same durability per point against antihorde weapons, but flamers suffer real bad against D of 2 or D3. While letters just shrug it off. Also, letters charge 3D6, meaning you can tie up like 5 artilery pieces.

Comparing flamers and bloodletters against each other 1v1 is a complete waste of time because they will almost never meet on the battlefield like that. Bloodletters will always be in combat if they are on the field and they will never charge Flamers.

Have you had great success with flamers? Do you not think they're almost completelly outclassed by pinks?

Bloodletters are better than almost anything damage per point wise except 6+ saves or high invul saves. Add in their utility in tying stuff up with 3D6 charge and banner procs making them stay in combat by surrounding a model and you're gold.
Just speaking from personal experience here. Nothing came even close in beating my BPN combo in my RTT. Obviously, that can be chalked up as anecdotal evidence, but we'll see. And I'm not saying BPN are amazing. I merely consider it "pretty good". But as far as chaos daemon codex only - I don't really see anything much better at this point

I don't think they're outclassed by Pinks, no. I'm not obsessed with Pinks as an option but respect their viability.

I'm not about to argue the point further with you, particularly, but for any reasonable reader in the thread they can see the information already provided on this page that justifies the individual merits of each unit by other posters who were willing to do so.

There are more than a small handful of units. The game is not a flat table of "you go, I go". There is nuance. There are variables. Daemons retain more flexibility than most armies, and if you choose to shoehorn yourself than you have already accepted you need to have your hand held at this point.

No, I just look at the roster of units and see:
a bunch of garbage big dudes that just give away VPs
overpriced garbage like chariots and riders
situational units like hounds, skull cannons, e flamers
amazing troops: letters, pinks, nurglings
supporters of amazing troops: dps, heralds, skulltaker

Anything not mentioned here is something I've yet to test properly.

Slaanesh just seems "khorne but worse with situational gimmicks that don't work on most meta armies"

The other 2 are the only ones where I see a mono list at least semi-working:
Nurgle I'll test soon.
Tzeentch, I'll test after Nurgle.

But as I look at those, I keep thinking "why not just BPN instead...". Hope I'm wrong as I want to use more of my 10k pts of deamons...


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Also, I don't understand the GUO bell hype. It's like Necrons but worse. You can either focus 1 unit at a time or just focus the GUO (the -1 to hit buffs help that ofc). Ofc, it can be great in CC, where you can't pick and choose targets that well.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
No, I just look at the roster of units and see:
a bunch of garbage big dudes that just give away VPs
overpriced garbage like chariots and riders
situational units like hounds, skull cannons, e flamers
amazing troops: letters, pinks, nurglings
supporters of amazing troops: dps, heralds, skulltaker

Anything not mentioned here is something I've yet to test properly.

Slaanesh just seems "khorne but worse with situational gimmicks that don't work on most meta armies"

The other 2 are the only ones where I see a mono list at least semi-working:
Nurgle I'll test soon.
Tzeentch, I'll test after Nurgle.

But as I look at those, I keep thinking "why not just BPN instead...". Hope I'm wrong as I want to use more of my 10k pts of deamons...


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Also, I don't understand the GUO bell hype. It's like Necrons but worse. You can either focus 1 unit at a time or just focus the GUO (the -1 to hit buffs help that ofc). Ofc, it can be great in CC, where you can't pick and choose targets that well.

As someone who has an extensive Necron army currently gathering dust I would disagree with your opinion on the Doomsday Bell. Yeh the Bell by itself is a weaker RP, but you are adding that on top of Disgustingly Resilient, along with all the other tricks Nurgle has for bringing back models. Thats merging aspects of 7th and 8th RP. Units of Pox Riders, Plague Drones, Myphitic Blight Haulers.. Heck Imagine obliterators next to a gnarlmaw with 0+ save getting models back on a 4+

What does everyone think of daemonettes?

Thoughts on my list? So far it's 2-0 in pick up games and went 3-0 in a local tourney where none of my matches were even remotely close.

LoC w/ robes + ephereal from WL trait
Tzherald on disc

2 x 30 pinks
1 x 10 brimstones

1 x 6 flamers

2 x tzheralds w/ staffs

3 x 3 nurglings

2 x herald of khorne

1 x 30 letters w/ icon+instrument
2 x 19 letters w/ instrument

1998/2000

All questions or criticism are welcome.

good luck play with ds bloodletters against list full of cheap screens like nurglings and/or poxwalkersu will neven charge something valuable before get shoot out as hell, unless ur opponent is a lobotomized monkey.

Ecdain wrote:
Thoughts on my list? So far it's 2-0 in pick up games and went 3-0 in a local tourney where none of my matches were even remotely close.

LoC w/ robes + ephereal from WL trait
Tzherald on disc

2 x 30 pinks
1 x 10 brimstones

1 x 6 flamers

2 x tzheralds w/ discs

3 x 3 nurglings

2 x herald of khorne

1 x 30 letters w/ icon+instrument
2 x 19 letters w/ instrument

1998/2000

All questions or criticism are welcome.

I'd remove all the disc I think they just don't do a lot for you. Even if you need them to geti nto range of a horror swaud you can just trail 1 or 2 pink horrors back to make up the difference, and it'll free you up like 60 pts.




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 blackmage wrote:
good luck play with ds bloodletters against list full of cheap screens like nurglings and/or poxwalkersu will neven charge something valuable before get shoot out as hell, unless ur opponent is a lobotomized monkey.

agree'd. I think one good blood letter deep strike is all of what you want. the problem is getting that khorne detachment and also getting CP.

mmimzie wrote:

Ecdain wrote:
Thoughts on my list? So far it's 2-0 in pick up games and went 3-0 in a local tourney where none of my matches were even remotely close.

LoC w/ robes + ephereal from WL trait
Tzherald on disc

2 x 30 pinks
1 x 10 brimstones

1 x 6 flamers

2 x tzheralds w/ discs

3 x 3 nurglings

2 x herald of khorne

1 x 30 letters w/ icon+instrument
2 x 19 letters w/ instrument

1998/2000

All questions or criticism are welcome.

I'd remove all the disc I think they just don't do a lot for you. Even if you need them to geti nto range of a horror swaud you can just trail 1 or 2 pink horrors back to make up the difference, and it'll free you up like 60 pts.




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 blackmage wrote:
good luck play with ds bloodletters against list full of cheap screens like nurglings and/or poxwalkersu will neven charge something valuable before get shoot out as hell, unless ur opponent is a lobotomized monkey.

agree'd. I think one good blood letter deep strike is all of what you want. the problem is getting that khorne detachment and also getting CP.

Was a typo on heralds, supposed to be "2 x herald w/ staffs" and I agree on not needing discs. The one has it to roll with Flamers.

As for the deepstrike screen you will also notice I run nurglings to secure landing zones and have in fact fought 100+ poxwalkers which got totally wiped out by turn 4. The two extra bloodletter squads is where people mistake me, they come in turn 2 to deal with an altered board state, only the big bomb drops turn 1 with horrors. Turn 1 the goal is to clear all chaff units, turn two is where I start hitting the meat. Starting everything on the board is not only impractical but overall a bad idea when it comes to being impactful with your units, 1 unit does the job turn 1 fine, the other 2 are finisher squads.

Hope that helps