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 dan2026 wrote:
The Warp Spiders still date back to like 1994.
Why on earth wouldn't they be first in line for a refresh?

Technically Shining Spears are the same age as they used the old plastic jetbike parts. They're also the same force org slot. Looks as though they wanted one FA and one HS Aspect updated together rather than two Fast Attack.

 dan2026 wrote:
The Warp Spiders still date back to like 1994.
Why on earth wouldn't they be first in line for a refresh?

Agreed with this, though IMHO the two most needing refresh were Spiders and Spears; so we are half way there now. Gotta believe Spiders are soonish for the redo, wish they had been first but what can ya do.

Chill people. I would have also preferred they transfer the oldes Aspect sculpts first into plastic, but this is a great release for a Xenos army and will keep us busy until the next wave, which I don't think will be far away.

There is a newly designed warp-jump generator and death spinner on the Autarch sprue, plus a Fusion gun, and the other plastic Autarch has wings, so the design work has been done. The models probably just wait for a release slot.

Of course, if the rules for Hawks and Spiders (2 that really need updating) are good in the new codex, it will suck deciding to wait for 2nd wave, buy crappy resin or proxy.
I think scorps and dragons still hold up (but resin, ugh)

 xttz wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The Warp Spiders still date back to like 1994.
Why on earth wouldn't they be first in line for a refresh?

Technically Shining Spears are the same age as they used the old plastic jetbike parts. They're also the same force org slot. Looks as though they wanted one FA and one HS Aspect updated together rather than two Fast Attack.

We’ve got a decent spread of aspects across roles in plastic now. (Obviously we want them all eventually)

Plastic:
Howling Banshees (Elite)
Dire Avengers (rumored to Elite, Troops otherwise)
Dark Reapers (Heavy)
Shining Spears (Fast)

Finecast:
Swooping Hawks (Fast)
Striking Scorpions (Elite)
Warp Spiders (Fast)
Fire Dragons (Elite)

FW Resin:
Shadow Spectors (Elite)

You might not have your preferred aspect for the job in plastic, but now you can put together a warhost with all the roles being filled by a specialist. Some choopy, some shooty, some zippy. Or a combination of those traits. A new player could put together a decent TAC list without resin/metal. Heck, you could probably make a decent one with new releases alone!.

I guess it's nice to have more of it in plastic for new people starting Eldar, but otherwise this release is a huge disappointment for me as a long-time Eldar player.

Lets not forget this will hopefully be like the Necron, Sisters of Battle and such - a big splash release with the new book; followed by drip fed updates over time. Though I'd hope that they come faster than the time between Banshee and this update. So perhaps one or two more aspects before the end of the year.


Aspects can at least be updated at any time and GW hasn't got to release a new book with them.


But yeah look at the army; the CORE Eldar forces are now all pretty much modern plastics or at least in plastic. Sure falcons and vypers are a bit long in the tooth; but you've got all you need for a solid core of Eldar in plastic.

You can even do a full jetbike styled force now in plastic (the autarch is still in resin/plastic but I'd wager if they don't pull that model rules/model wise then you can effortlessly convert one from a shining spear/jetbike and the two on-foot Autarch kits - a conversion yes but an easy one).



We are down to a few aspects and leaders in finecast. Even Necrons still have most of their heroes in finecast.

I'd have liked one more aspect, but this is a respectable update all the same, esp as Eldar aren't getting the new edition splash release style that Necrons got; and which would mean waiting till the next edition for otherwise.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I guess it's nice to have more of it in plastic for new people starting Eldar, but otherwise this release is a huge disappointment for me as a long-time Eldar player.

I’m weird as a long time Eldar player. I’ve got some of my army from the RT/2nd era, trailing off into 3rd, but then a big pause before returning in 6th. A number of the new kits I like the look of, and I’m glad they kept the same aesthetics, but I already have plenty of (Guardians, Warlocks). Or don’t really fit the theme of my army (Avatar). I’d not turn them away from my workbench if they showed up in a bundle deal, but I’m not heading down to the FLGS to get them on release day.

I never had reapers in metal, and after my dragons/rangers, swore off finecast. And wasn’t getting spears on the old bikes.

Most of what was holding me back from expanding my army was lack of plastic, and this release gives me a ton of new things to grab.

While there is only the shroud runners as a new unit for old players, I think that’s not a bad thing. The range was so old and dated they needed to go back and update it, rather then just cranking out new things. As a marine player, I know where that road leads. You end up with a bloated codex full of redundant units.

I’m lucky that I have a squad of spiders and hawks in metal, so the fact that they got missed on this update pass does not impact me much. I’ll still grab them in plastic if/when they release. With the massive volume of stuff that needed to be updated there was no way they could do it all in one wave. GW needed to make the call of what was in wave one, and I think they did a reasonable job. Better for them (and our wallets) to break it up. Hopefully we won’t need to wait decades for the rest.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Dude, a lot of the Eldar range is ancient.

Anything from 4th edition Eldar onwards is younger than Termagants, Hormagaunts, Genestealers, Rippers, Carnifexes, Lictors, Biovores and Spore Mines for the record. So that's uh....um... Falcons, Vypers, Warp Spiders remaining. And SCs which never really count as GW's SC logic is ALWAYS that SC are generally treated as iconic so age doesn't matter. A redo of a SC is a fancy splash release of hype.

They needed it the most, and I was expecting a bit more than what we actually ended up getting.

You're literally getting TEN GODS DAMNED KITS. And they've already indicated there will be further releases in time.

Just for accuracy, I count 6 units: Shroudrunners, Rangers, Guardians/Storm Guardians, Dark Reapers, Shining Spears, Corsairs. And Grey Knights did get a character.

Ten Kits - Avatar, Maugan Ra, Autarch, Warlocks. Shroundrunners, Rangers, Guardian dual kit, Corsairs, Shining Spears, Dark Reapers. TEN. The six 'unit' kits give you 7 unit options (or are you forgetting that the dual Storm Guardian/Defender kit that people have wanted since 3rd ed. has not only finally happened but even includes the weapons platform and all the trimmings?

And it’s literally not more than non-SM armies have got over the past editions, Orks have got more and so have Necrons. And they didn’t need it any more than Eldar did.

Necrons essentially needed a facelift and also to replace the 'gauss rods' in kits, so as a result they got a respectable overhaul of their older units - overhauls of older units are good things btw. Also, they're the flagship enemy faction for this edition so of course they're going to get a bit more love. Removed - Rule #1

Orks - you don't to criticise Orks getting releases after how long they sat between their 3rd ed. and then their 5th ed Codex. And the general opinion of the Ork releases is not that positive. Seems like monopose Ork kits that don't give you complete unit options ain't popular, go figure.


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 petrov27 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The Warp Spiders still date back to like 1994.
Why on earth wouldn't they be first in line for a refresh?

Agreed with this, though IMHO the two most needing refresh were Spiders and Spears; so we are half way there now. Gotta believe Spiders are soonish for the redo, wish they had been first but what can ya do.

If Warp Spiders had a Phoenix Lord they'd be a shoe in, but I suppose GW preferred to do a splash Phoenix Lord- Aspect linked release which is still a good thing.

Asking them to create a Phoenix Lord out of nowhere is a bit much of a demand when they have plenty that need overhauls and updating.

The Shining Spears - easy. To get rid of the old bikes, or reduce the need for them down to minimal - currently only the Autarch Skyrunner.

Which would lead me to believe that 'wave 2' when it happpens, possibly with the next Warzone might be Autarch Skyrunner, Another PL and Aspect (probably Scorpions considering how EVERYONE is screaming about Scorpions on a religious basis) and then what? A mop up of the aspects, maybe a sprue recut/tweak for the Falcon or Vyper similar to what they did with the SM Land Speeder or Tyranid Warriors (where the model is aesthetically identical to its 3rd ed release but just has had all the options thrown in the kit as well as a few tweaks to allow different poses and variation for crests, heads etc) would make sense.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Asking them to create a Phoenix Lord out of nowhere is a bit much of a demand when they have plenty that need overhauls and updating.

I believe there are several details known about the Shining Spears PL - including name and weapon - so they could've introduced the character alongside the Aspect box. Equally, they could crop up later.

Not "complaining" about this release - actually am thrilled with it and amazed we got this much redone. Hell a year or two back I was thinking maybe they would just retire all the old resin aspects without replacement in plastic (in essence sunsetting Craftworlds all together), in favor of Ynnari. I half wonder if that was a plan they had - Ynnari would be the new Eldar - it just felt (and still does) feel sorta half-arsed (to be clear, the introduction/faction of the Ynnari, not this new release of Craftworld units we have now.)

I think this is good release, and will get me to continue my languishing Eldar force for sure. Now even more new models would of course be even better, but this is a decent amount. Also, updating the Shining Spears first (even though I don't personally much care for them) was absolutely right call, as they were stuck on those ancient jetbikes that would look super jarring with all the Guardians, Scouts and Seers having the newer style.

And I'm sure this is heresy of the highest order, but for small infantry squads with fixed loadouts and single characters Finecast is not that bad. Don't get me wrong, I massively prefer plastic due its convertability, but it's not like the resin Fire Dragons etc are utterly unusable.

I waited to see what new models would be coming out. Now that Warp Spiders are not being released (at least, for now), I went ahead and painted one more Warp Spider, bringing the unit up to 6 strong. The Retrieve Octarius Data Secondary change to Retrieve Nachmund Data makes it so I will need 6 Spiders to guarantee the action.

Shame as I was definitely ready to replace my tired looking Spiders. But, I'm definitely picking up all the new stuff in the meantime.

 Crimson wrote:
I think this is good release, and will get me to continue my languishing Eldar force for sure. Now even more new models would of course be even better, but this is a decent amount. Also, updating the Shining Spears first (even though I don't personally much care for them) was absolutely right call, as they were stuck on those ancient jetbikes that would look super jarring with all the Guardians, Scouts and Seers having the newer style.

And I'm sure this is heresy of the highest order, but for small infantry squads with fixed loadouts and single characters Finecast is not that bad. Don't get me wrong, I massively prefer plastic due its convertability, but it's not like the resin Fire Dragons etc are utterly unusable.

The quality might be better than it used to be, but early on it was not good. Especially for the models that were ported to it from metal. Eldar especially with their delicate details and little gems and such. I felt like I need the knife skills of a sushi master to carve my own model out of the flash and resin gates. And the ranger’s long rifles are a little bendy, even after I got them straight.

It’s not the monopose nature. You are correct, with one squad in a list and minimal options, that’s not a big deal. But for a new player? I’d not wish finecast on anyone. It’s not unworkable, but is a bit of a PITA. And if you wanted multiple squads, plastic is a lot easier to convert.

The problems I had with finecast were always with casting errors - bits of the silicon mould in the model; bubbling that, unlike regular resins, would tend to cluster over a detail area and obliterate and, worse, would repeat cast to cast so you'd get a replacement just as bad as the original.

The material itself holds detail nicely and whilst some thin parts are a bit too thin (because they were sculpted for metal not resin) it is not the worst to work with (not the best but better than PVC to clean).


Thing is the fail rate is just WAY too high and whilst GW are good with replacements, the repeat nature of bubble clusters and such means that you'd often have to hope you got a replacement from another batch.

Overall its just not a good material and casting option. These days I don't even bother buying anything in finecast; its just too much of a gamble that I'd rather get metal, plastic or regular resin models instead and wait for GW to update things out of finecast.


And honestly with all the eldar additions in plastic there's a LOT to keep you busy. Sure more models is fantastic and I want to see more, but there's also buying and building limits.

Also with the eye focused on Eldar now chances are those "missing" elements will update fairly fast. Heck Eldar don't even have many special named characters that aren't bound to an Aspect and thus likely to get updated at the same time - its not like Necrons who likely will have to wait a long time to see all their characters in plastic.

As much as I wanted all the Aspects released in plastic at once, I can understand the business decision NOT to do so.
This is a big release, and for newer players it's more important to have all your Core stuff updated.
They likely added Reapers and Spears to this wave because those have been fairly popular choices in-game, so they know they will sell.

It also means they will have plenty of Aspects to release later, possibly with an Aspect themed story arc.
Wave 2 would be beefy indeed if they released the remaining 4 Aspects and Phoenix lords.

-

I literally spent this morning working on Finecast Hawks - utterly terrible stuff and I LIKE resin miniatures that are cast well. There are mold lines all over them and its like the two halves of the mold were not lined up - there is more of a step vs. just a casting line or bit of flash.
The wings are all warped at the tips and more then half of them have pin holes and voids that you can see completely through the wings.

Maybe this is just a bad batch or an early set of the finecast - not sure but the package looks current. Not sure im even going to complete these - I may use some of the parts in a mash up with some proxy resin Hawks I have from another manufacturer and see how that comes out.

Regardless it seems like plastic Hawks cannot come soon enough and I would think that GW would have got rid of this finecast junk ages ago but sure the financial aspects (ha) of doing injection moulding are big bucks and probably didn't make as much sense as crankin out nu-marines...

Don't get me wrong, I am over the moon that we are getting ten new kits replacing a lot of the old crappy models.

This has just whetted my appitite for more.
Especially since a big chunk of the army (4 Aspects) are still finecast.

But still its a GREAT start.

 Galef wrote:
As much as I wanted all the Aspects released in plastic at once, I can understand the business decision NOT to do so.
This is a big release, and for newer players it's more important to have all your Core stuff updated.
They likely added Reapers and Spears to this wave because those have been fairly popular choices in-game, so they know they will sell.

It also means they will have plenty of Aspects to release later, possibly with an Aspect themed story arc.
Wave 2 would be beefy indeed if they released the remaining 4 Aspects and Phoenix lords.

-

It's also a budget concern for players and thus sales. Buying the battle box, combat patrol, kill team and one of each other new kit will be in the $500-700 range. Every aspect plus phoenix lord would probably add another $100 on to that. It's a lot easier to break that up. If everything goes updated at the same time, that would be asking people to drop around a grand just on new models, much less multiples. Splitting it in half is easier to swallow, and dripping out aspect warriors later would make people more likely to pick them up, and to get some existing Eldar stuff to go along with them, increasing sales.

 Crimson wrote:

And I'm sure this is heresy of the highest order, but for small infantry squads with fixed loadouts and single characters Finecast is not that bad. Don't get me wrong, I massively prefer plastic due its convertability, but it's not like the resin Fire Dragons etc are utterly unusable.

Funny, that you use Fire Dragons as an example. I got some I considered unusable. Sure, I could have stuck them on their bases and they would have been recognizable as Fire Dragons from across the table, but the casts were just horrid. Bubbles and holes everywhere. I never understood why GW let such crappy casts out the door.

I had better luck with a finecast Lictor and the original Spiritseer that was only released in finecast, but I would have taken metal over either of them.

I also never understood why GW even made finecast a thing. I mean, I know they wanted to move away from metal, but the actual development of such a material and process. Why couldn't they do resin like everyone else? I've had puppetswar, microart, kromlech, hitech, forgeworld, chapterhouse, and artel w resin minis. None of them were ever as bad as finecast, not even close.

At the time Finecast was a cheaper alternative to pewter while still looking like metal.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
At the time Finecast was a cheaper alternative to pewter while still looking like metal.

"cheaper"

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
At the time Finecast was a cheaper alternative to pewter while still looking like metal.

"cheaper"

Well, I doubt GW would intentionally pick a more expensive material.

Do we know how much larger this new Avatar is compared to the old metal 2nd Edition one?

I'm guessing "way too big" but...?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
At the time Finecast was a cheaper alternative to pewter while still looking like metal.

"cheaper"

It was cheaper for GW. Hilariously everything converted to Finecrap still got a price rise anyway.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
At the time Finecast was a cheaper alternative to pewter while still looking like metal.

"cheaper"

Cheaper for GW not for customers.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
At the time Finecast was a cheaper alternative to pewter while still looking like metal.

"cheaper"

Cheaper for GW not for customers.

This. I remember Azhag the Slaughter's price went up to ~$100 when the model went finecast. I always meant to pick him up, and now its too late (even for a failcast model)

Yeah, I just avoid Finecast all together. Every model I have gotten bar 1 has just had tons of defects and imperfections, and was awful to work with. I don’t know why GW couldn’t have gone with a better resin, especially considering how FW does much better resin kits (which ironically is still much worse than a lot of third party resin manufacturers).

When I got my Fire Dragons a bit back I made sure to hunt down metal ones on the secondary market.

Is FW resin even different? I think it the same stuff nowadays*. In any case, perhaps I've been incredibly lucky, but I've never received Finecast with major defects. I've had some worse stuff from FW.

(*I'm pretty sure they changed the Finecast formula at some point. The earlier stuff was worse.)

 Crimson wrote:
Is FW resin even different? I think it the same stuff nowadays*. In any case, perhaps I've been incredibly lucky, but I've never received Finecast with major defects. I've had some worse stuff from FW.

(*I'm pretty sure they changed the Finecast formula at some point. The earlier stuff was worse.9

It may very well be, I have bought it since about two years after its release because of my bad experiences with it. The more recent stuff I got from FW has been pretty good (Blood Bowl) but I do remember back when I got my Death Korps in 2008-2010 they had tons of issues. I'm thinking FW (and it sounds like Finecast) have probably cleaned up their act a bit, either by improving Quality Control or fixing issues with the casting process. It's just strange to me it's even a conversation considering I just got some Spectral Spinners from Artel W in resin and they are absolutely flawless. I would hope GW - a much bigger company with much more money could do as well as some of the third party producers.