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So I'm putting together an eldar force and getting one of the new plastic ones for $10. Twin linking has obviously hurt the big dead guys but I still want to use them. Any ideas on how to best use them in small games? They're the coolest looking models around and I want to see how people use them differently. S10 and T8 is great, even if they only get 2 attacks. So what say you, dakka members? Big tank killing guns, wraithsword and scatterlaser for midlevel elite control (i.e. tyranid warriors), nothing but two big fists and a couple flamers?

I am keen to go with...

BL + EML for Anti-Tank

Wraithsword + Scatter for CC/Mobs

I have an old school metal one with a starcannon from before they were even given two weapons in the codex, but I will probably try and convert it to the anti-tank one above.

BL+EML = best anti tank besides fire dragons that eldar have (BS 4). Since they compete in the same slot as Prisms and Falcons I would go with this, and leave scatterlasers for guardians (in a balanced list). I have found WL not worth it in CC because they lack a decent number of attacks (2 or 3 attacks, doesn't kill enough to stop that PK/PF from hitting back).

If you primarily face horde though the scatter + flamers is very effectve.

I usually go with just wraithswords for a cheap 100 or EML/BL for anti tank. The wraithsword makes all the difference if you plan on using them for close combat for sure so if you know you will be getting them in combat, get a sword and if you can afford it, get a gun too, eml is a great choice for a cheap 125 which is a great deal imo.

The only problem with a gun and sword is knowing when to forget about shooting and run at the enemy or when to sit back and shoot.

wraithsword/scatter on a lord is only 120 points

which saves you some points compared to the anti-tank lord

Seems like basically everyone is on the same page: AT and if you want CC get a high powered weapon and a sword to make the most out of your two attacks.

With the low number of attacks re-rolling misses with the sword is very helpful.

Rangerrob's Wraithlord Gaming Tip #1.

Don't assault the empty enemy Transport with your Wraithlord.

Because you will...
1) Penetrate it.
2) Roll the 6 for the explosion.
3) Wound the Waithlord on the 4+
4) Fail the Armor save and take a freakin wound.

Rangerrob wrote:Rangerrob's Wraithlord Gaming Tip #1.

Don't assault the empty enemy Transport with your Wraithlord.

Because you will...
1) Penetrate it.
2) Roll the 6 for the explosion.
3) Wound the Waithlord on the 4+
4) Fail the Armor save and take a freakin wound.

Which can no longer happen in V5 (Str 3 cannot wound T8)!

AdeptSister wrote:

Rangerrob wrote:Rangerrob's Wraithlord Gaming Tip #1.

Don't assault the empty enemy Transport with your Wraithlord.

Because you will...
1) Penetrate it.
2) Roll the 6 for the explosion.
3) Wound the Waithlord on the 4+
4) Fail the Armor save and take a freakin wound.

Which can no longer happen in V5 (Str 3 cannot wound T8)!

HA! This made my night! Always thought that was a silly rule. I got to paint less and play more, can't believe I didn't see this.

I run 2 BL+EML WLs and 1 Sword/Flamers WL in my hybrid Eldarzilla/Mech list. The AT WLs sit back for long range support, while the Sword wielding WL runs straight at the enemy, along with the Avatar, Eldrad's Council in a WS, and some other supporting elements.

My Iyanden Force is based around 20 Wraithguard, and three Wraithlords. Two are Sword/EML/2flamers to support the Guard, and the last has a twinlinked brightlance to pop armor the EML's can't handle.

I'd say target practice, but I've yet to actually play against an Eldar opponent, so I'll just go with my other (equally valid) response:

Paperweights.

Dronze wrote:I'd say target practice, but I've yet to actually play against an Eldar opponent, so I'll just go with my other (equally valid) response:

Paperweights.

If they only are running 1 then yes its better used that way. But most players realize things are better in pairs.

If you are going to run them at all they need to do what your army lacks, and you need to take 2 of them. They are BS 4 which means they shoot better than guardians (the cheap way to get hvy wep.). And they are T8, so only str 5+ can hurt them. This makes them great for sitting back, shooting and taking the hvy fire instead of it going to the transports. However most anti-tank is Str 8 and has AP 3. So you need to fortune them, my friends have found it hard to get cover saves for them as they are MC's and need 50% obscurity.

A friend of mine swears by running 3 w/sword/flamer/BL. They never make it to CC. Imo if you want CC the Avatar is better, as are your CC aspects. Yes, having T8 is great if you want to tarpit a unit, you will probably kill 2 of them, then if there is a PK or PF in there it will strike back and it probably will wound the WL, not a really good tatic considering how much Ld 10/fearless armies there are out there. If you want anti-horde your better off with 2 Prisms, Dark Reapers, or Storm Guardians.

Casper wrote: So you need to fortune them, my friends have found it hard to get cover saves for them as they are MC's and need 50% obscurity.

A friend of mine swears by running 3 w/sword/flamer/BL. They never make it to CC. Imo if you want CC the Avatar is better, as are your CC aspects. .

Yeah, I take care of both of those problems by 1.) keeping my shoooty WLs behind my WS (which are on shorter bases),that way my WLs are 50% obscured by the tanks, but their heads can clearly see over the tank, thus denying my opponenet a cover save. and 2.) by running my CC WL as a tag team with the Avatar and Eldrad's Council (in a WS)...there isn't much in the game that likes to face that core in CC. And yes, that is 3 WLs + the Avvy...gotta love Elfzilla

Alerian wrote:

Casper wrote: So you need to fortune them, my friends have found it hard to get cover saves for them as they are MC's and need 50% obscurity.

A friend of mine swears by running 3 w/sword/flamer/BL. They never make it to CC. Imo if you want CC the Avatar is better, as are your CC aspects. .

Yeah, I take care of both of those problems by 1.) keeping my shoooty WLs behind my WS (which are on shorter bases),that way my WLs are 50% obscured by the tanks, but their heads can clearly see over the tank, thus denying my opponenet a cover save. and 2.) by running my CC WL as a tag team with the Avatar and Eldrad's Council (in a WS)...there isn't much in the game that likes to face that core in CC. And yes, that is 3 WLs + the Avvy...gotta love Elfzilla

Can you say "Hydra"?

The metagame is going to be shifting, and there's a whole bunch of nifty, old and new toys that just became competitive again... Remember, cover saves are starting to get less and less useful with the IG bringing all that barrage weaponry to bear. I'm pretty sure that, between the muppet-mowing-special-cover-save denial that is the Hydra, and the mass of hugely messy, cover-ignoring, "oh, gee, I just pulped you on a 4+ or better without LoS" batteries, that Eldar/Dark Eldar players are going to need to rethink how their lists work, in light of the new 'dex.

Or I'm completely wrong and somehow the new IG stuff is going to have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the way that the holders of the elfin magic in the grim darkness play the game...

Chances are, from what I've seen, that it'll be more the former than the latter, though.

The Hydra means NOTHING to my list....the WS give cover to the WLs...so they will never be going flat out to lose the "hydra negating save". Perhaps you didn't actually read my post...

The Hydra only takes away "flat out" cover saves, and cannot even negate the WLs base armor save...your statements are perplexing to say the least. Sure, IG has lots of toys, and their new dex can take on ANY list, that is not the issue...but the Hydra? It is useless against Elfzilla, and near useless aginst WSs with Spirit Stones that do not go flat out, due to being only S7.

Dronze wrote:I'd say target practice, but I've yet to actually play against an Eldar opponent, so I'll just go with my other (equally valid) response:

Paperweights.

that's funny. I was going to answer the the OP:

"In third edition."

but yours might be funnier.

I usually run with only a wraithsword keep them cheap and take three with avatar for Eldarzilla =)

You did ask about small armies so: In 500 points or 750 I tend to take a WL with a sword and BL. Also two flamers (the two flamers being taken in any size battle...love the burn, heh).

The reason for the odd mix of cc plus the tank busting is simple. The WL is one of the few places to get BS 4 so the heavy weapon is a little more reliable here than elsewhere. And in small battles Im usually a little low on cc in general so what I do have I want to have some staying power.
And before people talk about orc nobs with power fists hiding in large mobs, the other important part of my small eldar army is a farseer with mind war. 29 boys and a nob with a fist will beat a WL, 29 boys are just 174 points dieing to the WL.

If for some reason I know who Im playing then the load will change, most likely to either a BL and EML combo, or possibly a sword and scatter. But usually in small armies its nice to have the WL be as flexible as possible, since he really can do it all.


And a bit will of course depend on what else you have in your army. If you have a fire prism then some of the antitank role is already being filled. If you have an avatar as your HQ then you dont really need the cc. If there is no other big fat target in your army then the WL is going to draw all the heavy weapons, so a single WL in an otherwise infantry army just go with a cheap shooter. Hes going to die quickly so dont invest much beyond a single scatter laser.

In the old days it was simple, stick a star cannon on him and let him go. Nowadays its really going to depend on what you want him doing for you, since he can.

Sliggoth

EML/ BL
Wraithsword, Starcannon
Wraithsword (with Flamers)

EML/BL = Anti Tank

Sword/Scatter = Horde/CC

Scatter/Starcannon = Anti Infantry