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Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el




All over the U.S.

Hey guys. Got some issues that I'm dealing with in my local gaming community. I know how I am going to handle them but thought I'd bring these issues up for discussion. I'm wondering if they are common or not.

These issues have to deal with people of very different personalities, wide ranges of age and level of experience, very different gaming goals, and the stress of everyone trying to interact with one another. I'll list the personality along with the army and what the individual is doing that causes issues. Some of these issues only two or three in the community have currently become aware of. Now keep in mind that no one is perfect but a slight majority in our small local community have commited no foul and are only really involved by having to suffer through these issues.

Now with this in mind I will start the list with myself:

Me-Tau player, One of the older players but the youngest of the old. I'm the guy that remembers where to look for the obscure rules/the guy constantly asked rules questions while in game(I seem to be the only one that knows how to crack a book some days). I am an independent business owner with a personal schedule that usually either has me running late or that tries to interupt game time. Was recently accused of taking too long for casual matches by opponents that walk away to socialize during my movement phase. This leaves me standing and waiting for their return before I continue my movement. For thw first and last reason I have stopped refereeing the neighboring matches while I'm in a game out of respect for my opponent and to be able to call the social butterfly on his actions.

Big problem-Seems that since I stopped refereeing the other games as the impartial one, arguing and generally overly competitive childish behavior has run amock. How do you deal with my unpredictable business/personal schedule? Even though I have a passion for playing, Should I stop playing on the days when the whole group gathers to instead ref their games?



Player Type A- Black Templars. Local small tourny winner. One of the older players. Very competitive type of individual that is also a little guy with a Napolean complex. When in groups he tries to take charge of everything and never stops talking. Nice guy, just a very competitive in an is always right kind of way in anything concerning the game. He, often,won't stop talking long enough to listen to the other peoples points of view. He will often accuse others of being too argumentative but will himself engage/start these arguments and refuse to settle with the gentlemans agreement. This is causing some of the newer players to become turned off of playing somewhat. He is also, one of the guys who will go take a "Social" break during your turn and then accuse you of delaying the game. We recently found out that he has been running his army wrong concerning the BS of his power of the machine spirit. This individual has hi-jacked game day with a series of league/mini-tournies that are unfriendly to newr players. He has set the points at 2,150 and set a 2 hour time limit on games.

Big problem-How do you get Napolean to quieten down long enough to point out that he is playing his army wrong and how do you get him back to being the gentleman player he was 2 years ago? How do you deal with this individual?


Player Type B- IG player new to the game. Older guy that gets too emotional during games. Is having a hard time grasping the game but loves to play. His difficulty in learning the game has left him win-less over the past year. The lack of wins has made him desperate for a win and is making him a poor sport that becuase of the example of one other person he now is unwilling to roll-off on anything that is quetioanable(Like 50% questionable coverage of tank for 4+ or 5+ obscured cover save roll-off). This individual is an excellent modeler that I turned onto the game. He really wants to keep playing and with the new codex he should have a better time of it. Problem is that his desperation to make a winning list has him trying to manufacture rules out of thin air. Some of the things he has recently tried has made me question his reading comprehension skills. Now this guy I don't hold any real anger towards but rather towards others that did stupid things when he first got into the game. Things like where the Templar player talked him into joining a 6,000 pt per side apoc game for the guys second game ever.

Big problem-He swears that he can join the PCS in with the Infantry Squads when mobbing up the platoon. This and he is becoming like the Templar plyer in that he won't shut up long enough for you to give him the bad news and gets very angry vocally when you finally do get through to him. How do you deal with this? What would you do to try and remove some of the poor sport attitudes that he is picking up?


Player type C-Plays tyranids. Newer to the game/getting back into it after dabbling in the game back in second ed. is also a private business owner and like myself this is his relax time. He wants to play full games so that he learns but the Templar player has foisted an every week is a small tourny on to the group. The league/mini-tourny is for bragging rights only but player Type C along with a lot of us don't want to brag. We'd rather just play enjoyable games and go to real tournamnets when we feel like it.

This guy currently has no real issues that affect the group other than he is a newer player that is getting chased away by some of the other veteran players who aren't being considerate.

Player Type D- Plays the Space wolves. Decent player that swings from being very competitive to casual. Has a tendency to bring out the worst in the Templar player. When these two disagree they will not settle it like gentlemen. He sometimes plas a little fast and loose with his super quick rolling. Like any proper space pup player he likes his drink.

The only problems are. How do you keep him from butting heads with the templar player? and he occasionally shows up drunk/too drunk to play. How do you handle an intoxicated player?

Player Type E-Playes Eldar. Older player that has played since rogue trader. Has a tendency to mix up the rules from various editions and codices. Very competitive in a passive aggressive manner. Is very good a tactically picking an army apart. Understands how to get more done with less. Sometimes think that he bends the rules on purpose instead of just being confused by so many editions of BRBs and codices.

Problem-How do you handle constantly having to remind him of the strengths and types of his weapons?



There ya go. I know, long post but wanted to give you the feel for the dynamics withing the group. There are about 4-5 other players not really mentioned and be aware that a lot of these issues have come from us playing against one another for so long. Your input please.

Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09

If they are too stupid to live, why make them?

In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!

Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know)  
   
Made in au
2nd Lieutenant





Australia

play more with the tyranid player, seems like a nice guy and - if you do verse him more often, it can come quite more enjoyable with lots of inside jokes. The templar guy just seems like an over zealous tool in a tool bag as the IG player seems to be his lapdog, for this i would just ignore.

OTOH though, maybe host a gaming night with some people in that group, get to know each other, discuss etc, create a closer group could make the game more enjoyable and maybe you/them will learn a thing or too..

*Ex Username: Gutteridge*


 
   
Made in gb
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




NYC

Just walk away. You have more important things to deal with in your life. So what if your schedule is stopping you from doing all that? You have priorities, and 40k is just a game at the end of the day. The people in your group, and you as well, need to just relax a bit once in a while. Never violate the most important rule - have fun.

Kneadatite Blue/Yellow: search for it online and bypass GW's repackaged version called "green stuff".

Thousand Sons [2000] 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos





Alaska

If possible, host some games at your place with the players you enjoy playing. Jihan said it: you gotta have fun otherwise its not worth it.

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Made in za
Junior Officer with Laspistol





South Africa

Agree with Jihan,if the black Templar player(or any of them for that matter)start to boss you about starts to fight etc. just walk away from it.I have major problems aswell finding a relaxed,calm game were everyone is friendly and non-combative,yet being alot bigger than most of my friends they tend not to try it much with me.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."-Groucho Marx
 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive


You... walk away because :

Forgive me for saying this but:

- If there is such a thing as losers that vent their frustration with online games then

-There are people that commands soldiers because the most they accomplished irl is yelling orders at roaches at mcdonalds.

This is extreme example , but apply the mentality behind it i guess.

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Made in gb
Stitch Counter






Rowlands Gill

My personal mottoe is "I'd rather do bad stuff with good people than good stuff with bad people".

By which I mean it is the people that make the hobby, not the hobby making the hobby. You can enjoy doing stuff that really isn't your main idea of a good time if the people you are doing it with are good friends, and the corrollary is that you can really enjoy a particular activity, but if the people you are doing it with are tools, then they will suck all the fun out of it for you and you are wasting your time.

If the people who you share your hobby with are causing you grief its time to walk away from them. Some people will never change, and all you end up with is aggro and grief from trying to make them.

Having said that, clearly you retain some residual affection for these characters, so it's possibly worth an attempt, and Napoleon seems the main offender from what you say, so buttonholing him in a corner and laying down the law, telling it as you see it, may be worth a shot. Probably a long shot though. Sounds like the complete egomaniac to me, and the kind that has wrecked clubs up and down the land. Best avoiding with a 10' pole.

Perhaps you are best resigning yourself to the fact that Napoleon has already wrecked the club and you either eject him or start a new one elsewhere.

Cheers
Paul 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

I've left clubs because a majority of players were tools.

I join clubs to play with the people. If they're fun to game with, the games are more fun, too. If the people are tools, then the game becomes a chore and I'd rather be doing dishes than playing them.

There are a few tools in my current club - but there are also a few nice guys who don't cheat and want to play. I simply don't play the people who are tools.

In a tournament, I'll just get the game over with as soon as possible to get away from them. If this means handing them an outright victory, so be it. I'd rather take best sports than Highest battle points.

I'm 50.
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

focusedfire wrote:Me-Tau player, One of the older players but the youngest of the old. I'm the guy that remembers where to look for the obscure rules/the guy constantly asked rules questions while in game(I seem to be the only one that knows how to crack a book some days). I am an independent business owner with a personal schedule that usually either has me running late or that tries to interupt game time. Was recently accused of taking too long for casual matches by opponents that walk away to socialize during my movement phase. This leaves me standing and waiting for their return before I continue my movement. For thw first and last reason I have stopped refereeing the neighboring matches while I'm in a game out of respect for my opponent and to be able to call the social butterfly on his actions.

Big problem-Seems that since I stopped refereeing the other games as the impartial one, arguing and generally overly competitive childish behavior has run amock. How do you deal with my unpredictable business/personal schedule? Even though I have a passion for playing, Should I stop playing on the days when the whole group gathers to instead ref their games?


First off, take responsibility ONLY for yourself. If the other grown men can't play WarDollies together nicely, then screw 'em. Make sure that YOUR games are enjoyable.
If someone accuses you of taking too long, examine it from a neutral p.o.v. Did you? Why? Was it because work called you away, or were you helping others? If you were helping others... read my FIRST sentence again. : ) If work called you away, then apologize, explain the reason, and POLITELY tell them you'll understand if they want to quit the game, should it happen again. Even tell them you'll concede the game to them if it happens & they want to back out. It's just a game, after all.
If they keep walking away during YOUR movement phase, stop them. Say, "Hey. if you're going to [insert what he's doing here], I'm going to go ahead and continue with my movement phase. Okay?" If he says yes, then your guys all get 8" moves. Yes. of course, I'm kidding. If he says yes, then complete your movement phase. Go get him when you're done and ask him to return. if he doesn't then ask him if he'd prefer to just concede the game so he can chat with his buddies and you can look for another game.
If he DOESN'T want you to move while he's away, then ask him to stay at the table, and have his buddies chat with him there. If he won't do that, then ask him if he'd prefer to just concede the game so he can chat with his buddies and you can look for another game.

focusedfire wrote:Player Type A- Black Templars. Local small tourny winner. One of the older players. Very competitive type of individual that is also a little guy with a Napolean complex. When in groups he tries to take charge of everything and never stops talking. Nice guy, just a very competitive in an is always right kind of way in anything concerning the game. He, often,won't stop talking long enough to listen to the other peoples points of view. He will often accuse others of being too argumentative but will himself engage/start these arguments and refuse to settle with the gentlemans agreement. This is causing some of the newer players to become turned off of playing somewhat. He is also, one of the guys who will go take a "Social" break during your turn and then accuse you of delaying the game. We recently found out that he has been running his army wrong concerning the BS of his power of the machine spirit. This individual has hi-jacked game day with a series of league/mini-tournies that are unfriendly to newr players. He has set the points at 2,150 and set a 2 hour time limit on games.

Big problem-How do you get Napolean to quieten down long enough to point out that he is playing his army wrong and how do you get him back to being the gentleman player he was 2 years ago? How do you deal with this individual?


If he keeps yammering without letting you input anything, try raising your hand. the inanity of it is likely to stop him dead in his tracks. Tell him, before the game even starts, that you're willing to discuss rules during the game, provided he understands taht discussion is a 2 way street and you get to talk, too. If he goes back to his old ways, just start packing up your models. Again, it's likely to just stun him into silence. Even if it doesn't... You're free of a PITA player.

Be blunt. People like that don't get subtlety and innuendo. if you don't like something he does, tell him directly and in no uncertain terms. Don't be rude or inflammatory. just say it. He probably won't LIKE it, but he'll hear you (once he shuts up).

As far as him taking social breaks during the game, use the same method I suggested above.


focusedfire wrote:Player Type B- IG player new to the game. Older guy that gets too emotional during games. Is having a hard time grasping the game but loves to play. His difficulty in learning the game has left him win-less over the past year. The lack of wins has made him desperate for a win and is making him a poor sport that becuase of the example of one other person he now is unwilling to roll-off on anything that is quetioanable(Like 50% questionable coverage of tank for 4+ or 5+ obscured cover save roll-off). This individual is an excellent modeler that I turned onto the game. He really wants to keep playing and with the new codex he should have a better time of it. Problem is that his desperation to make a winning list has him trying to manufacture rules out of thin air. Some of the things he has recently tried has made me question his reading comprehension skills. Now this guy I don't hold any real anger towards but rather towards others that did stupid things when he first got into the game. Things like where the Templar player talked him into joining a 6,000 pt per side apoc game for the guys second game ever.

Big problem-He swears that he can join the PCS in with the Infantry Squads when mobbing up the platoon. This and he is becoming like the Templar plyer in that he won't shut up long enough for you to give him the bad news and gets very angry vocally when you finally do get through to him. How do you deal with this? What would you do to try and remove some of the poor sport attitudes that he is picking up?



As for him getting angry about losing... Tell him to grab a ladder and get over it. LOL You'll probably have to use nicer phraseology. He shouldn't expect to win games against experienced players.
Heck, I started playing with my existing group in early 2004. It was 3 years before I ever won a game on my own. Of course, these are HIGHLY competetive guys who build the hardest list, don't BELIEVE in cheese, etc. Tournament winners... the whole bit. Aventually, I started winning. A game against me isn't an auto-win anymore... and, before I started gaming with them, I had about a year of casual gaming expereince where I went about 50/50.
My point? You can't EXPECT to win. Take the opportunaity every game to learn from your mistakes. Eventually you'll win.
It was easy for me, because I'm a social butterfly. I game for the cameraderie FIRST, models SECOND and the game THIRD.


focusedfire wrote:Player type C-Plays tyranids. Newer to the game/getting back into it after dabbling in the game back in second ed. is also a private business owner and like myself this is his relax time. He wants to play full games so that he learns but the Templar player has foisted an every week is a small tourny on to the group. The league/mini-tourny is for bragging rights only but player Type C along with a lot of us don't want to brag. We'd rather just play enjoyable games and go to real tournamnets when we feel like it.

This guy currently has no real issues that affect the group other than he is a newer player that is getting chased away by some of the other veteran players who aren't being considerate.



*F* the Templar player. Is there a store rule saying you HAVE to play in his mini-tournament? If so, advise the store owner that THIS is the reason you're playing, and spending your money, elsewhere. If others do the same thing, he'll get the idea.
So, get a bunch of guys to NOt play in the tourney. While TemplarGuy is running *his* tourney, you guys can be yukking it up with a casual atmosphere. Use this opportunaity to help the Nid player out. THIS is the guy, of the whole group you listed, who you should be spending the MOST gaming time with... for BOTH of your sakes.

focusedfire wrote:Player Type D- Plays the Space wolves. Decent player that swings from being very competitive to casual. Has a tendency to bring out the worst in the Templar player. When these two disagree they will not settle it like gentlemen. He sometimes plas a little fast and loose with his super quick rolling. Like any proper space pup player he likes his drink.

The only problems are. How do you keep him from butting heads with the templar player? and he occasionally shows up drunk/too drunk to play. How do you handle an intoxicated player?


Re: fast and loose.
Before the game, tell him that you'll ask -and expect- him to reroll any die he picks up as a success, if you didn't see it first. Ask him to ONLY pick up misses to alleviate any confusion. If he won't agree to ONE of these, decline to play him and to hell with his feelings on it.

Re: Drunk... Speak with the store owner/manager. he should NOT be allowing that. Period.


focusedfire wrote:Player Type E-Playes Eldar. Older player that has played since rogue trader. Has a tendency to mix up the rules from various editions and codices. Very competitive in a passive aggressive manner. Is very good a tactically picking an army apart. Understands how to get more done with less. Sometimes think that he bends the rules on purpose instead of just being confused by so many editions of BRBs and codices.

Problem-How do you handle constantly having to remind him of the strengths and types of his weapons?


Player E is most like me. I have a fragged short term memory, and it takes me a LONG time to commit small details to memory. Often, if required to blurt them out swiftly, I'll screw up and, if my opponent doesn't correct me first, have to restate what I meant to say.
"Okay, Ballistic Skill 5. Hitting on 5's," or "Ballistis Skill 3, hitting on 3's."
Of course, I KNOW the right answer... it just comes out wrong sometimes.
It might be that he really DOES have memory issues.
Give him the benefit of the doubt. Keep reminding him. Ask him to double check the Str, etc., of his weapons until he has them PROPERLY memorized. Even if YOU know the right answer, don't tell him. patiently wait for him to look it up. It's probably the best way for him to learn/memorize it.


Eric

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/06 19:40:36


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





First off, you're in this hobby for your enjoyment. If you get bogged down ensuring that others have fun as well, now it's 'work' not 'fun'.

So, ensure that you're having a good time, whatever that might be. Maybe that's playing one game and talking about how much you hate the Yankees. Maybe it's painting. Maybe it's helping new players learn the game. Maybe it's playing 3 games with hardcore armies.

It sounds like you're the defacto leader of the group. But, no one has to follow you. So, you're trying to herd cats. Stop doing so. You need to let loose with some tough love. Tell people what you want to do. If you want to play Mr. Hivemind, then set up a game with him (maybe even in advance), and if no one else has a game that night, too bad.

Tell everyone they need to play by the rules. Doesn't matter if they don't like them, don't remember then, or just want to cheat. Play by the rules. It doesn't matter if 'they' think PCS can mob up with the privates or that it doesn't 'make sense' that BT and SM machine spirit is different. Both armies get other bonuses. Tell the IG player you'll let the PCS mob up, but only if he doesn't take the PBS (or anything else you don't like). And tell Mr. Templar that he can have the SM machine spirit if he doesn't buy Preferred Enemy. Sounds like both players want to have it all, and you can't.

And if someone is too drunk to play, then don't play them. If you don't enjoy playing someone, don't. Find some RTTs to play in. Go to another tourney.

But, stop trying to be Mr. Mom and take care of everyone. They're big boys and should be able to do so themselves.

Stop playing them if they're not playing the rules right. Tell them it's because you want to go to tournies and need to know the 'right' way to play, or just say you're tired of playing cheaters.

And find some new gamers. Find the couple good guys out of your group and find some like-minded gamers to join.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
Made in us
Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot





Sacramento, CA

focusedfire wrote:
Big problem-Seems that since I stopped refereeing the other games as the impartial one, arguing and generally overly competitive childish behavior has run amock. How do you deal with my unpredictable business/personal schedule? Even though I have a passion for playing, Should I stop playing on the days when the whole group gathers to instead ref their games?


You are not responsible for other ADULTS. If they can't behave, then that is on them. I would never allow someone else to chase me away from something I enjoy. Go game for yourself, and leave it at that. If being a referee is dragging down your enjoyment, then stop doing it.

focusedfire wrote:Big problem-How do you get Napolean to quieten down long enough to point out that he is playing his army wrong and how do you get him back to being the gentleman player he was 2 years ago? How do you deal with this individual?


Bring in a high chair and put him in it. Tell him he has a time out. Seriously, ignore this guy. You give him power by dealing with him. People can only boss you around if you give them that power. Short of him (har har) pulling a weapon on you and demanding that you play his way or in his tournament, he has no power.


focusedfire wrote:Big problem-He swears that he can join the PCS in with the Infantry Squads when mobbing up the platoon. This and he is becoming like the Templar plyer in that he won't shut up long enough for you to give him the bad news and gets very angry vocally when you finally do get through to him. How do you deal with this? What would you do to try and remove some of the poor sport attitudes that he is picking up?


You can handle this a couple of different ways. If all this person needs is a win to make them happy. Create a list for your army that is beneficial to his, and play him. Give him the best chance at a win without completely throwing the game. Some people just need random ego boosts to keep them happy. If he has never won, then help him get a victory. Maybe team up with him against a couple other cool players, and have some fun that way. Plus this would be a good way to help reinforce some rules.

or

Maybe sit down with this guy away from the gaming store, and help him setup a better list. The emotional anger stuff could be that he is feeling very intimidated by never winning. He could be feeling intimidated by the other gamers, and doesn't know how to ask for help, so you are getting bad behavior because of that.

If handled properly, this person could probably become a positive force in your gaming community.


focusedfire wrote:This guy currently has no real issues that affect the group other than he is a newer player that is getting chased away by some of the other veteran players who aren't being considerate.


The problem here is your vets. Specifically the little feller. Setup games that are not in the tournament, and let Napoleon play with himself.

focusedfire wrote:The only problems are. How do you keep him from butting heads with the templar player? and he occasionally shows up drunk/too drunk to play. How do you handle an intoxicated player?


I believe this was mentioned previously. If he shows up drunk, have the store owner/manager kick him out. If he resists, contact the authorities. As for the arguing, once again, just ignore it if it doesn't involve you. Maybe kick the little feller in the shins till he cries for his mommy.

focusedfire wrote:Problem-How do you handle constantly having to remind him of the strengths and types of his weapons?


As mentioned previously give love to your older players. Our memories are not always what we wish they were. Sometimes we positively remember something "correctly". Only later to find that, yet once again, our mind has failed us. Just keep reminding.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/06 20:18:38



REPENT! For tomorrow you die!

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams 
   
Made in ca
Squishy Squig



Burnaby, BC, Canada

ignore said templar and IG players get to know the other newer guys in the group and teach them and play with them

if the templar and ig players get all fussy bout that just tell them how it is (mind you very gentlemen like) and if they cut you off walk away

or do what i did and find a new gaming group

Someone in a high position can look to see what those under him think, but he shouldn't change himself for them. Just do as you like, and if no one follows you then that just means you weren't good enough for them. - Bleach. 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot




Chicago

Seems like for TemplarGuy what you really need is an impartial judge for a game or two to get him into a friendlier mood. If this doesn't work, walk away.

For the IG player, I personally hate playing someone who I feel like I need to have a rulebook at hand to call him on his crap. I don't really know what you can do about this guy.

Swolves guy... I'd just say to keep asking him what he's rolling for until he gets into the habit of telling you. It may be as annoying to him as the fast rolling is to you.

The Eldar player sounds like a good enough guy. I'd say just have a reference sheet handy for him.

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Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Buzzard's Knob

There's no helping someone with a Napoleon complex. Stick with the people who don't give you trouble and let the rest go.

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Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Whenever one of the pups starts getting out of hand, I just give them a long stare, take a deep breath and explain to them in a calm/slow voice how they should just relax.

It sucks when someone gets a bad attitude during the game because they're loosing, ruins the whole experience for everyone involved.

But ultimately, you are not there to "change them", just don't play with them unless they change, if they can't figure it out, then so be it.

Unfortunately our hobby can attract some people who lack certain... social skills

The Happy Guardsman
Red Templars
Radical Inquisitor
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I'd go out of my way to ignore Napolean's requests for a weekly tournament and I'd start setting up games a week ahead of time.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

focusedfire wrote:These issues have to deal with people of very different personalities, wide ranges of age and level of experience, very different gaming goals, and the stress of everyone trying to interact with one another.

All groups have issues. Some just don't play well together. That's life.


focusedfire wrote: Me-Tau player,
- How do you deal with my unpredictable business/personal schedule?
- Should I stop playing on the days when the whole group gathers to instead ref their games?

First, you need to make your priorities clear, and respect your opponent. If it's a rare emergency, or stepping aside for a few minutes, or calling back later are OK. If you're constantly dropping out for lengths of time and interrupting your opponent's game, that's not cool.

Do you actually like babysitting or refereeing? If so, great, do so. If not, then don't.

focusedfire wrote: Player Type A- Black Templars. little guy with a Napolean
- How do you get Napolean to quieten down long enough to point out that he is playing his army wrong and how do you get him back to being the gentleman player he was 2 years ago? How do you deal with this individual?

Shorties with Little Man Syndrome are a PITA to deal with. If he's the biggest problem, then you need to sit him down and set his ass straight. If he's damaging the group, and wants a good group, he'll moderate his behavior. If not, then maybe it's time for a new group.


focusedfire wrote: Player Type B- IG player new to the game. win-less over the past year.
- He swears that he can join the PCS in with the Infantry Squads when mobbing up the platoon. This and he is becoming like the Templar plyer in that he won't shut up long enough for you to give him the bad news and gets very angry vocally when you finally do get through to him.

I'd suggest doubles / team games with him, so he doesn't have to lose all the time, and so teammates can coach him in game on what works / doesn't. A few Team wins would probably help even things out.

focusedfire wrote: Player type C-Plays tyranids. this is his relax time. He wants to play full games so that he learns but the Templar player has foisted an every week is a small tourny on to the group.

Don't do tournaments / leagues. Simply refuse to play the tournament / League. How hard is it for you guys to man up and just say you'd rather do something else?

Instead, play regular games off on the side, or play Apocalypse.


focusedfire wrote: Player Type D- Plays the Space wolves. Has a tendency to bring out the worst in the Templar player. He sometimes plas a little fast and loose with his super quick rolling.
he occasionally shows up drunk/too drunk to play. How do you handle an intoxicated player?

It takes 2 to argue, and most of the arguing is the Templar guy, so I'd start there, but it wouldn't hurt to ask this guy to turn it back a notch.

Dicing is easy - require him to declare what he's rolling for and to only pull misses so you can see the hits, or they don't count and you'll require re-rolls.

If he's too drunk to play, that's not cool. Tell him to call a cab and go home.


focusedfire wrote: Player Type E-Playes Eldar.
Has a tendency to mix up the rules from various editions and codices.
How do you handle constantly having to remind him of the strengths and types of his weapons?

How about have him print out his army list for each game, and share it with his opponent?

   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el




All over the U.S.

There are a few things that I need to clear up.

First, is that we meet to game at an outdoor pavillion most of the time. This is because it doesn't require a lot of travel. Also, there is enough room, tables, and we have enough terrain for four to five game tables. This pavillion is on private property so we don't have to deal with people hassling us.

Second, My primary fault is tardiness on gameday. Everyone wants to meet at 10 am to make use of as much daylight as possible. I usually am not able to be there and set up until noon. I try to respect my opponents and have told them my schedule. It still sucks for the one guy who is stuck not playing until I get there.(For some reason we always have even numbers of players.)

Third, The Templar player is at heart a good guy. He used to not be this way. A lot of his negative quirks started to show up when his personal life began to have serious problems. I'm just not sure if I will be able to get through to him while he is in this tail-spin. I really would like to help my friend but as he spirals he seems to be listening less.(No, an intervention wouldn't help.)

Fourth, The Templar player and the IG player are buds but they also argue quite a bit. It seems to be more that the IG player is picking up the stubborn not listening habit more than him being the Templars lap-dog.

Fifth, A lot of us have already decided to drop the mini-tourny thing.

All of these guys are good people individualy. It just seems that the artificially inflated competitive aspect has brought out the worst.


I thank all of you for your input. Some really good ways of dealing with this that are a bit different than my normal style and definite food for thought. I want to hear more takes on this situation and maybe also about the personality clashes that you guys sometimes have to deal with.

Thanks.


@JohnHwangDD-Really good advice, very spot-on.

@artyboy-Already done. Waiting to see if this helps or is this more of a case of familiarity breeds contempt.

@BoxANT- Your sage advice and, " lack certain...social skills " comment made me smile.

Goodness, every post has really good advice. I'll be here til next week thanking everyone personally. If I haven't mentioned you yet, please do not take as an intended slight. I just realized how long this post would be to thank everyone individually.

Thanks again

Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09

If they are too stupid to live, why make them?

In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!

Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know)  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

focusedfire wrote:There are a few things that I need to clear up.

All of these guys are good people individualy. It just seems that the artificially inflated competitive aspect has brought out the worst.

Thanks again

Thanks for the update, it helps.

IMO, you guys really ought to get some Apocalypse games scheduled. This has a few major advantages in your group:

1. It breaks the whole Tournament / League competitive cycle. Stops it cold.

2. It forces teamwork among players (preassign the sides based on who signs up). The best thing about Apoc is the pre-game scheming. Along with the in-game trash talking and so on. Loads of fun. Ban Jammers, which are pure FAIL.

3. It allows you to show up late and not penalize your team too much (all your stuff is in Reserves).

4. It lets your guys field wierd stuff that they wouldn't normally be able to field in a tournament game.

5. It injects a ton of silliness and "whoa, WTF?" that you don't see too much of in tournament games.

Try it!

   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el




All over the U.S.

Thanks John, I will.

How often do you or any of you other guys run into this?

Do you feel it is a case of famliarity breeding contempt or do you just write it off as someones true colours showing?

Do any of you take the time to see if it is something in their personal life before writing them off?

Is it a difference between a stranger misbehaving and someone who is known doing so?

If it is a friend,"How much time do you invest before writing them of? Or, do you just give them space and hope it will get better?

I guess these questions boil down to trying to tell when it is a good time to confront someone versus just giving them space. Finding out how others deal with similar situations is, both, interesting and educational to me. Sort of lets this old guy figure out where he stands in society.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/08 05:16:29


Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09

If they are too stupid to live, why make them?

In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!

Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know)  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

In my experience, gaming groups have a half-life of about 5 years, often less, depending on the temperments and social skills (or lack thereof) of the individuals involved.

Some people just won't really get along, other will get along great.

I can't explain it. But you just gotta deal with it one way or another.

   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Rasyat






So do you mean a gaming group's quality decays to half its original quality in 5 years, loses half its members in 5 years or dies out in 5 years?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Loses half of its members.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/11 05:51:03


   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





One key thing seems to be to stop having the mini tournaments. You listed 2 newer players. Tournaments wil be bad for them since they havent the full grasp of the game.

BT Guy needs a sit down, a talking to, and maybe a slap for good measure
IG Guy needs it explained its only a game
SW Guy seems decent, just ask him to vocalise what he is rolling for and what he is targeting
Nid's Guy seems fine, just play some singles with him

As to people walking away mid turn. IMO keep playing the turn. If they dispute it just ask why the hell they walked away. Its not your fault.
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne






MagickalMemories wrote:
First off, take responsibility ONLY for yourself. If the other grown men can't play WarDollies together nicely, then screw 'em. Make sure that YOUR games are enjoyable.
If someone accuses you of taking too long, examine it from a neutral p.o.v. Did you? Why? Was it because work called you away, or were you helping others? If you were helping others... read my FIRST sentence again. : ) If work called you away, then apologize, explain the reason, and POLITELY tell them you'll understand if they want to quit the game, should it happen again. Even tell them you'll concede the game to them if it happens & they want to back out. It's just a game, after all.
If they keep walking away during YOUR movement phase, stop them. Say, "Hey. if you're going to [insert what he's doing here], I'm going to go ahead and continue with my movement phase. Okay?" If he says yes, then your guys all get 8" moves. Yes. of course, I'm kidding. If he says yes, then complete your movement phase. Go get him when you're done and ask him to return. if he doesn't then ask him if he'd prefer to just concede the game so he can chat with his buddies and you can look for another game.
If he DOESN'T want you to move while he's away, then ask him to stay at the table, and have his buddies chat with him there. If he won't do that, then ask him if he'd prefer to just concede the game so he can chat with his buddies and you can look for another game.


This is really the best advice anyone can give. It applies to everything, not just gaming groups. Take responsibility for yourself, and then act assertively to get what you want done.

I said ASSERTIVELY, not aggressively.

Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.

Whitedragon Paints! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/613745.page 
   
Made in us
Werewolf of Angmar





Anchorage

Lay a 44 Magnum on the table where the tools in question are acting childish. Explain to them you're pissed off and tired of their idiocy.

Problem solved.

"Well, looks can be deceiving."
"Not as deceiving as a low down, dirty... Deceiver." 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Professional





New York

Okay, so there's two sides to every story. Without hearing from the other individuals in the group, is there anything else besides the tardyness which would upset other people? you entioned you spend a lot of time in the book, are you a rules lawyer or do you check every rule someone evokes?

This situation is not unique to you warhammer, or any warhammer gaming group. This is real life. Co-workers, friends relatives. Remember in lfie you have to look out for #1 be that yourself or your family.

I know some people have said sit down the BT player and set him straight but personally I wouldn't even bother. It doesn't really sound like something you can do something about and if you do his likely response will be "who the hell is this guy telling me what to do?" So what's the answer? Ignore him most likely. Since it's a casual gaming group don't play with him, ever. There soudnes to be enough people in the group to find an alternative.

HE may also be an ass toward you beucase of something that happened, a conflcit you had with him?

If you do confront him remember to use "I" statements. When you do this I feel this becasuse... When you walk away form the games to socialize I feel frustrated becasue it delays my turn...


Current Armies:

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Shae Pirate's Life 50
Durgen attrition 50

WH40K:
Orks (5,000 pt Apoc Kan Wall, 1850 Bikerz)
Grey Knights (1850 Crowe Purifiers, 2500 'Ard Boyz Draigo)
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WHFB:
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3000 Tomb Kings 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

My primary gaming buddy is a long time collector, but hasn't really played a lot. So he and I are getting together every week now. He, much like me, has a hard time remembering stats. So I printed out the summary sheets on GW's site and did a print out from Army Builder with all of his basic units and upgrades. Quick and easy to refer to and it helps us both keep our games moving!
   
Made in us
Wrack Sufferer





Bat Country

After reading this whole thread I can safely tell you to give up on this group.

You can try a lot of things to save it, but the same problems are going to keep cropping up over and over. It will drive you nuts and sap the enjoyment you draw from the hobby from you.

I tell you this because I used to play a lot of DnD. USED TO being the key words here. A lot of people with personalities like you describe were in my gaming groups. At first I thought it would get better, that I could fix it and it would be awesome again like it was a few years ago. But then the argumentative people's personal lives started to turn sour. So they started yelling more and had to be right all the time. Because if they aren't right at work/home/inbed/withthemisses then they'll be damned if they aren't right here, during their happy time. The newer players, most of them at least, did what I did in the beginning grinned and bared it. It was a problem they thought they could solve. But I knew better. So I left those people behind, and the group self destructed. It's happened to me several times really. And it's usually the over argumentative ones who you can blame it on. The overly sensitive ones usually get hurt. And sometimes people get into fist fights. But I've only seen it once and heard it happened three times.

I hope you don't try to save this group. To do that you'd need to fix the problems in everyone's lives. And that is far too much to go through when you can just as easily find a new group. Well... until that one implodes.

All good things must at some point come to an end. If you want to see if it will fix itself (It worked for me, only once though). When you leave don't give them a "I have to work more" or some similar excuse. Tell them, straight up, that you have a problem with the social make up of the group. That Mr. X is being too argumentative, Mr. Y is cheating too much, and newbs/nubs/oldies A,B,C need to pick up a big book and make sure they know the rules a little better. Usually it starts a gak storm, but the one time it worked for me the group leveled out and I would have gone back if I didn't have a girlfriend at that point.

But I wish you luck, in any path you choose sir.

Once upon a time, I told myself it's better to be smart than lucky. Every day, the world proves me wrong a little more. 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el




All over the U.S.

Not going to give up on the new guys.

Made a beginning attempt with the BT player. Probed to see how argumentative he'll be.

I pointed out that in his codex it states Power of the machine spirit is BS2. He claims a phone conversation with a GW rep allows him to use the new SM rules for PotMS. He also claims that he gets the new stormshield rules. Very quickly got very argumentative.

I'm going to have a sit down with him tommorrow and lay it on the line. Everything from concern to his downward spiral and personal well-being to how he is affecting some of us wishing to game a bit more casually.


@2000=As to my own culpability. This is why I brought up my faults. I do not wish to appear to be the innocent victim in this. I HAVE been accused of being a rules lawyer, Twice. Both times by people doing things that were blatant rules violations. Things like moving their Leman Russes 6" and firing everything back in 4th edition or barrages scattering off the back table edge and still detonating becuase part of the temlate is still on the table over models.

Generally if I have a rules question I'll just ask "How does that work?" or I'll make a note of it and look it up after the game for accuracy. It's only when rules conflict or both parties involved have read the rule differently, or can't remember the exact rule do the books come out during the game. If there is still disagreement or the situation is vague, I quickly offer to roll off for how it will be played.

I, also, point out to my opponents rules that have changed to their benefit in game if I see them playing by the older rulesets. I do this from a purely selfish motive of if I beat you then I beat you. I don't want there to be excuses and I don't want to be accused of with-holding information in order to win. If it means you beat me then I need to work on my battle plans or what I am doing in-game.


I Thank all of you for your feed-back.

BTW,JHDD-I find your gaming group half-life theory interesting. It makes me wonder about all of the variables that would cause this phenemenom.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/12 05:52:47


Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09

If they are too stupid to live, why make them?

In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!

Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know)  
   
 
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