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wyomingfox wrote:OK, we got the memo, a large number of players really dislike the number of marine variant codices. Thanks. Noted. Can we move on now, rather than continuing to make yet another rumor thread into a "Noes more Spaze Marinez" Thread. Sorry, but after reading over a hundred of these, even my cherub demeanor gets taxed.

Instead, if you really want to discuss the large number of variant marines and your grievances with such a marketing scheme, please make a separate thread in the 40K General Discussion. In fact, Alpharius why don't you just sticky it so that one thread may rule them all.

I'm tempted to do that.

Believe me, very, very tempted...

Purge the Heretic wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Because the sisters of battle (Adeptus Sororitas) are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy

ALL sisters are ecclesiarchy units.

This is what happens when I have to buy the Codex in English because the Spanish was discontinued earlier. That I don't understand the half of what I read \o/

I was thinking in Ecclesiarchy as an organization that collaborates with SoB orders (being SoB an external organization), and not thinking in Ecclesiarchy as an organization including or ruling the SoB orders in it's own core.

I agree with H for once (ugh).

I think John for some reason is so adamant against DE that he can't believe they are around the corner so tells people to "buy anything non-SM that isn't DE" maybe in the hope that they'll fail as an army and GW will squat them.

I realize if less people bought Marines and more Xenos then Marines might be less commonplace. On the other hand, telling people to buy other armies or GW product lines because you have a personal vendetta against a certain army yourself is not going to be healthy either. it just makes you look like "TFG".

DE could possibly change the metagame down the road as far as xenos vs Marine love. Companies push what sells the most. Take Coca-cola. There are way more advertisements on tv for Coke than their is Sprite. Both are made by the same company but one gets pushed more. Why? Because one sells better than the other. A smart company does this. If more people bought Orks or Eldar or IG than SM's than GW would shift focus and you'd see the Marine players whining as much as xenos/guard players do.

Set aside your personal bias John. DE are coming whether you like it or not. If someone posts they want to buy DE when they are released than you should be happy they aren't buying Marines, not saying "buy Tyranids instead or buy Craftworld Eldar instead". Encouraging people to NOT buy DE will result in DE failing if the people listen, meaning GW loses money meaning not only do SM players lose but we ALL lose, whether you play Tyranids or IG or Orks.

DE sounds like it will be a winner and the Marine haters, especially you John, should be encouraging people to ride the bandwagon this late summer/early fall; not scare them off it.

Fateweaver wrote:I think John for some reason is so adamant against DE

he can't believe they are around the corner so tells people to "buy anything non-SM that isn't DE" maybe in the hope that they'll fail as an army and GW will squat them.

telling people to buy other armies or GW product lines because you have a personal vendetta against a certain army yourself is not going to be healthy either.

If more people bought Orks or Eldar or IG than SM's than GW would shift focus and you'd see the Marine players whining as much as xenos/guard players do.

Set aside your personal bias John. DE are coming whether you like it or not.

If someone posts they want to buy DE when they are released than you should be happy they aren't buying Marines, not saying "buy Tyranids instead or buy Craftworld Eldar instead". Encouraging people to NOT buy DE will result in DE failing if the people listen, meaning GW loses money meaning not only do SM players lose but we ALL lose, whether you play Tyranids or IG or Orks.

DE sounds like it will be a winner

the Marine haters, especially you John, should be encouraging people to ride the bandwagon this late summer/early fall; not scare them off it.

Did you not even read my follow-up reply on the previous page? I'm not against DE per se, but I have been pretty irritated by years of empty promises and hollow rumors.

If you go back 2 years, we had guys saying that they'd seen the models and that the Codex was ready. "Reliable" people. Adamantly. We got nothing for over a year and a half. WRT DE, I believe nothing that I don't see.

As I told the others, and I'm telling you, re-read what I wrote. I didn't say not to buy DE. I said there were other non-SM options, which was what the previous poster wrote about - non-SM options.

With the size of the SM base, it's not shifting any time soon. Don't think that for a minute. All one can hope for is a slight slowdown of the rate at which SM stuff comes out.

Got any actual proof that DE are coming? If so, please share.

DE will fail (or not) on their own merits, not because they should be some charity case. People want DE to succeed? Start a full 2000-pt DE army. Spend real money on DE and GW will listen. And by real money, I'm talking a few hundred bucks, not "a couple boxes". Thing is, if people had spent that money while DE were still on the shelves, DE never would have been pulled in the first place. DE are far more popular now, than they ever were, only because they've been effectively Squatted. If/when DE actually appear, I'm going to be very curious to see who puts their money where their mouth is, and want to see just how strongly they support the army with their wallets.

What basis do you have for saying "DE sounds like it will be a winner"? Have you got Codex or model information you can share? Or is this just wishful thinking? Back in 3rd, DE seemed like a winner too.

I'm not a Marine hater at all, not with thousands of points in Marines. I say, people should buy what they like, and not bother with charity. Simple as that.

I believe what John was trying to say in the post that instigated all this lolsyness is that there are other options than Dark Eldar and waiting for years on end not knowing if they will come out isnt exactly the smartest plan. While its all fine and dandy to do that, he simply meant to suggest an option that was more available at the moment which would also help Xeno's sales.

So back to the topic at hand, while there have been rumors that the book has been put to print, Im really more interested in the models. Have there been any peeps on thee at all?

Excluding our favorite green of course.

Someone on Warseer has their source saying there will be an announcement about the codex to come on the 4th of may...well he said 18 days from now, Very specific, and easily proven/disproven when the date comes due.

Still seems odd to me that anything would be announced on a tuesday, but we shall see.

Purge the Heretic wrote:Someone on Warseer has their source saying there will be an announcement about the codex to come on the 4th of may...well he said 18 days from now, Very specific, and easily proven/disproven when the date comes due.

Still seems odd to me that anything would be announced on a tuesday, but we shall see.

Cool. If there's going to be something official, that'd be great.

If "Everything you have been told is a lie" on a Mystery Box, that's just crap.

Tuesday seems to be the day new albums/movies come out in store in the USA, so maybe the DE annoucement will be performed by Bolt Thrower!

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

Just cause youre leaving your flank wide open.

BA have everything BT have with the exception of the Emperors champion. And scouts with normal Marines. And an army roster less than half the size.

Do we need another assault army from the Marines?

DA could be the shooty approach. Finally.

I know you are not that narrow minded ^^. Just tugging your nerves a bit here.

We have 1 BT and 1 DA player at our store, out of 5 SM players total. Every codex has one guy. So yeah i see 3 Assault armies on the table, and 1 balanced, and the kinda semibalanced DA.

Basically DA deserve theyre own codex due to fluff. And the option for the Deathwing and Ravenwing. Along with the option to retcon huge amounts of strange and arcane wargear from the Great Crusade. And thus turn them into a very shooty army.

That would give us 3 Assaults, 1 balanced, 1 Semishooty (since we all know that IG are the true Shooty Imperials).

Oh yeah and i hope DE arent too good when they hit. I dont wanna spend any money on them. But i might if they are that good. I own 2 SM armies, so i can easily hold off on new purchases. A totallynew DE army is alot of temptation ^^.

combatmedic wrote:Have there been any peeps on thee at all?

They look like the one in the 5th ed rule book artwork(pg 174 of the hardcover). Some of them have a crossbow spar on the front of their rifle.

Crossbow spar? On a rifle?

That sounds kinda stupid actually...haven't even seen a model yet and I'm already worried.

VikingScott wrote:Great so in terms of rules the inquisitors themselves get squatted then.
That seems to be the general opinion

General opinion of idiots, maybe. They can't do a GK codex without Inquisitors, and despite their recent disregard of fluff, there is simply too much money (games, novels, etc.) in the Inquisition for them to simply "squat" them.

The thing about DE John is that there has NEVER been a concrete date set by anyone official.

All we've heard is "soon" and people assume"soon" means 3-6 months AFTER the word "soon" is spoken.

So everyone saying things like "we were promised" or "GW has said" is all misinformation and lies to fuel the flames some more.

Reds8n seems to believe that DE are at the printers. That could mean an August release, that could mean a October or even January of 2k11 release. If the codex is indeed at printers you know they'll come out.

It has never been a question of "if", but a question of "when". Only the Chicken-Littles, sky is falling types have been crying "if".

Didn't mean to blanket you but you've been adamantly against GW redoing DE for quite some time so when you tell people to not wait for DE and to invest in other armies instead it appears to me and others that you want to see DE fail. DE have failed so far because the models were crap and the codex was crap. With Phil on codex duty and Jes on model duty those 2 would have to purposely feth it up for it to fail and I'm sure neither wants to garner a bad rep. There is a reason that the 4th edition Eldar codex still sells well and the army attracts people to it to this day. Phil did the codex, Jes did the majority of rescultps and the vehicles like Falcon and Prism go back to 2nd edition and are still considered the best looking vehicle kits to come out of GW.

I'm confident that unless Phil or Jes feth up immensely (and I doubt they would) DE can't fail.

As to people buying only a few boxes of DE, you know that's a seriously narrow view John. People buying a new army obviously will need more than "a few boxes", even existing DE players will probably feel the need to add more or, as does with every codex to come out, be forced to change up army comp a little bit (especially considering right now there is only one way to play DE).

JohnHwangDD wrote:DE *did* get an update, and don't you forget it or ignore it. See the update logo in the corner? Right!

I'm not sure if that really counts as an update. It was a gakky Jervis book, and about a year after it was released, GW decided that maybe they could use some wargear and vehicle upgrade options. It was initially published in WD, and then in the re-print of the codex (which was the second 3rd edition book, released one month after the box set and C:SM).

I've liked the idea of DE but the craptacular models put me off.

The only ones I'd spend money on are the jetbikes. The DE jetbikes are nicest "bike" unit of all the "bike" units in 40K, IMO.

Fateweaver wrote:I've liked the idea of DE but the craptacular models put me off.

The only ones I'd spend money on are the jetbikes. The DE jetbikes are nicest "bike" unit of all the "bike" units in 40K, IMO.

I'm pretty sure that it has been a long time since Jes Goodwin made a craptacular model - and possibly never!.

Ostrakon wrote:
I don't really think you could have reasonably done that with BA though. Their fluff would make them operate distinctively from other chapters.

DA fluff however... They're practically a codex chapter straight up, albeit with a pretty rich background. They don't have any weird gene-seed quirk that makes them act differently, or some kind of extradordinary-even-by-astartes-standard level of zeal that would need rules to represent them. Everything that makes DA interesting as a chapter has very little to do with what they do in battle.

Seriously, the only thing that merits an entire codex is their awesome background. Rules-wise the only thing to distinguish them would be Deathwing, Ravenwing, lots of heavy plasma, and maybe some Favored Enemy:CSM. Unless they retcon some things heavily, which is always possible.

Nonsense. Prior to the most recent codex, the only thing different about BA were certain units counting as troops, a couple semi-special pieces of wargear, and the Black Rage rule thrown in. Nothing a couple of special characters couldn't convey unto an army. Except maybe the Baal Predator, but if BAs got the DA treatment then all Space Marine chapters would have Baal preds by now.

But now look at the new codex! Crazy units galore! Unique weapons and vehicles found nowhere else in the Imperium! I mean seriously, where did the Librarian Dreadnought come from?

Point is, in terms of uniqueness, codex adherence, and "extraordinary-ness" pre-5th ed BA were in the exact same position DA are now. There is more than enough to create a full codex for DA. Not that most DA players wouldn't mind simply settling for some kind of PDF rules update to fix silliness like Storm Shields and Scout Turbo Boosting bikes.

New question then!

Just visited GW webshop, and BOTH Daemonhunters and Witchhunters Codex were missing/not available/gone.

Remember being there just a couple of days ago, and they were there..

Any reasons for this? Rumorwise, or facts

Alienfood wrote:New question then!

Just visited GW webshop, and BOTH Daemonhunters and Witchhunters Codex were missing/not available/gone.

Remember being there just a couple of days ago, and they were there..

Any reasons for this? Rumorwise, or facts

What are you talking about...I just went to the website 2 seconds ago. They're still up there.

My point is that, prior execution ineptitudes aside, BA, BT, SW, and standard Codex-adhering marines all have sufficient fluff differences that should translate reasonably well to crunch differences that merit an entire new codex.

BA freak out and go ragey, and have a high concentration of assault troops.

BT are incredibly zealous even by SM standards, and this is the source of their strength. Plus the organization is pretty different from Codex Astartes.

SW don't even pretend to adhere to the codex, and this is well-represented in their book.

DA, fluffwise, isn't terribly distinct from your average codex chapter on the battlefield. Nothing that couldn't be represented with a couple special characters in C: SM.

Now, if we're going to retcon DA a little bit to give them some more interesting things, I'm all for it. Hell, I'd rather see that codex than have BT come out first, simply because you're right: I'm getting sick of assault marines. But right now there's really no reason the majority of DA players (read: Not Deathwing or Ravenwing) can't just counts-as Codex: SM.

I guess if we really wanted to do DA, what could we give them with the existing fluff that isn't decently represented by the current vanilla codex?

They're not in the list to the left, usually named "Codex and Sets", but have been earlier..
That whole tab is gone.

Meanwhile they have them on an image with pricing, but if you click them, there is no info, just a blank page. And they lack an "Add to Cart" button.

As for bolter's with crossbow spars, a certain piece of psycher killing WH wargear fits that description...

however your context confused me, where did you see these?

The American site still has the books, but many of the European sites have run out/taken it down.

What Terminus said, Non-English IQ books have been phased out for months now.

And onto DA, i could envision them getting Terminator Armor Galore. Even more than SW, cause i was feeling stumped when Loganwing was pretty much better than Deathwing.

Ok first of all, kill of anything veteran in Power Armor. Veterans either go TDA or at least artificer armor.

- Combine DW and Sternguard. Stormbolters with specialty ammo.

- Combine DW and Vanguard. Assault terminaots that charge the turn they teleport in. (This could very much be the only assault angle DA should get.)

-Remove Scout bikers, and give the Ravenwing skilled rider and maybe jink. Along with the astartes greande launcher ^^.

- Reinforce shooty, by allowing us to replace the special weapon with a heavy weapon. This for Tac Squads.

- Something special for the Devastator Squad. Not necessarily a new weapon, which would get simply redistributed everywhere else, but im thinking stabilization hooks, shooting out of the leg armor (Black Khaindar), Bonus effect? Maybe BS 5 for all of them. Broken not too much, It only adds 25% extra firepower (HB squads get 10 instead of 8 hits....wazooo). Another option would be lower power setting on the Plascannon. Let DA have Great Crusade Plas which is better.

Give them more arcane/superold stuff. NOT tied to the Mechanicus, cause thats where Iron hands come in. (Which have never been done yet by GW)

-I could see a single squad of Jetbikes. Special Retinue for Sammael only. Think Sanguinary Guard.

-Belial gets also a special Retinue of TDA Apothecary and Banner bearer.

- Artificer Armor for everyone, that is a sergeant. Imagine that DA had so many of em, everyone who qualifies for 1st company gets TDA, everyone who qualifies for sergeant gets artificer.

- Im running out of stuff since im in a RPG mood right now so get crazy with stuff .

Voronesh wrote:

- Combine DW and Sternguard. Stormbolters with specialty ammo.

- Combine DW and Vanguard. Assault terminaots that charge the turn they teleport in. (This could very much be the only assault angle DA should get.)

OMG! I love that idea...don't know about all the artificer armor though...

Purge the Heretic wrote:As for bolter's with crossbow spars, a certain piece of psycher killing WH wargear fits that description...

however your context confused me, where did you see these?

Unless I'm mistaken, Platuan4th was referring to the Splinter Rifles on the new DE Warriors, which he claims to have seen.
I think it could be a cool idea. Maybe there's some type of ammo upgrade that's fired from the crossbow. Soul Seeker splinters? Harpoon? Net launcher? Who knows...

Spanish C:WH was discontinued like two years ago and CH some months ago. It's nor surprising for me if the versions in other languages are discontinued, sooner or later.

Alpharius wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:OK, we got the memo, a large number of players really dislike the number of marine variant codices. Thanks. Noted. Can we move on now, rather than continuing to make yet another rumor thread into a "Noes more Spaze Marinez" Thread. Sorry, but after reading over a hundred of these, even my cherub demeanor gets taxed.

Instead, if you really want to discuss the large number of variant marines and your grievances with such a marketing scheme, please make a separate thread in the 40K General Discussion. In fact, Alpharius why don't you just sticky it so that one thread may rule them all.

I'm tempted to do that.

Believe me, very, very tempted...

I didnt put my disgust It was merely a pretense as I wanted to post the Hitler dubbed blood angels thing . I could have made a thread about it , but under my excitedment I had to psot it some where relivent. Yes befroe you say I might easily be amused but meh , who cares .

Voronesh wrote:What Terminus said, Non-English IQ books have been phased out for months now.

Erasoketa wrote:Spanish C:WH was discontinued like two years ago and CH some months ago. It's nor surprising for me if the versions in other languages are discontinued, sooner or later.

Yet, in Sweden we don't have the luxury(?) of having translated RBs and Codexs. All of our books are in english, and the chances that they run out of DH and WH codexs at the same time, I find hardly believable.