Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

kirsanth wrote:My response has been typical of recent changes adjustments.

"But, I liked the origianl idea!"

But the original doesn't let GW sell us unnecessary transports for an army that mastered phase technology.

How would you guys feel if space marines were 5pts but had reinforced carapace armor 3+ and super hellguns s4 ap5, it wouldn't be the same.

Kurgash wrote:But the original doesn't let GW sell us unnecessary transports for an army that mastered phase technology.

No, but . . . but. . . but . . . umm. . . I was not trying to bring that up just mentioning some other travesties that may help avert future catastrophies.

I think it's time to stick GW the big middle finger and walk away. These rumors sound too idiotic even for their low standards.

I just realized i have played only a single game of 40k in all of 2011. I don't need it anymore. :-D I'm free, I'm finally free!

I really don't understand why people are so scared of change. Would you prefer to have no Necrons, no SoB, no Dark Eldar, no Chaos, etc. (Granted you would have squats instead) and go back to RT days? Change alters things that's the very foundation of change. Sure all change isn't good but it keeps the momentum going which is a great thing for the hobby.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think it's time to stick GW the big middle finger and walk away. These rumors sound too idiotic even for their low standards.

I just realized i have played only a single game of 40k in all of 2011. I don't need it anymore. :-D I'm free, I'm finally free!

Can I has your stuff? Wife loves the crons heh.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think it's time to stick GW the big middle finger and walk away. These rumors sound too idiotic even for their low standards.

I just realized i have played only a single game of 40k in all of 2011. I don't need it anymore. :-D I'm free, I'm finally free!

Personally I don't get what 'hate' their is towards these rumors. What exactly do you find so idiotic? And as for 40k in general, if it no longer interests you, then certainly godspeed with whatever other games give you pleasure, but for my money 40k is in the best place its been since the 3rd edition revamp (when all the codexes were wiped out and all the armies were in the main rulebook). Except for the couple of super-old codexes (and the first few 'new-style' codexes like the Dark Angels and CSM), you can pick up any codex and make at least 3 different nicely competitive builds, and if you're into fluff then the army lists are open enough to create unique fluffy lists if you like limiting yourself based on background.

But back to Necrons, again what is so terrible about these rumors (and BTW, all my speculation below is just speculation, not based on any additional rumors that I haven't shared)?


For the 'new' WBB rule, I was dreading seeing yet another army with Feel No Pain yet the existing WBB rule is just TERRIBLE to play with. The new rule seems like a nice compromise. While its only on a 5+ now instead of a 4+, the fact that you get to take that save against any type of weaponry means that in certain situations its going to net you about the same amount of resiliency that the current WBB does, in some situations it will net you less and in some situations it will net you more. Also, the opponent knows exatly what he needs to do to cancel out the save (wipe the unit out or break it), so the old strategy of pounding on individual Necron units until you wipe them out remains in place. And we have no idea what units have the 'ever-living' rule or if there are any things that provide that rule to other units (maybe like the resurrection Orb?), so there may be plenty of different ways to help bolster this new WBB rule in the army.

And the rumors indicate that at least one of the new transports will help regenerate dead guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few different things in the army that now do that...so that's a different kind of resurrection dynamic now added to the army.


With Gauss Weaponry not being rending, again that's kind of a relief. Making the entire army have rending would have likely meant they were just too potent. Instead they've left Gauss with the auto-glance rule (which isn't too powerful with 5th edition damage tables), but in order to make up for this, it sounds like they're getting a much wider diversity of weapon types that will allow them to fill the gaps. So instead of just having about 3 different weapon types in the whole army, they now have a bit of different things for people to play with.


Phase out, while fluffy just didn't work for things like tournaments, and should really be relegated to things like Apocalypse or fun games (so I'm glad its gone).


Destroyers moving to Jump Infantry makes sense if they've added a bunch of Jetbikes and Fast Skimmers to the army (as it sounds like they've had). Before the Destroyers were the 'fast' element of the army. But if that role has been taken over by other things, it makes sense from a diverse gameplay perspective to have Destroyers move into a slightly slower role...and really the only big change is that they can't turbo-boost (but now you have other stuff that can move that fast instead).


Immortals as a troops choice should be fine. Just as with every other codex, it sounds like you'll be able to go with a more Elite style Necron army or a wall of Necron warrior army...you'll have the choice and hopefully both units will have distinct advantages (likely point cost vs. effectiveness) that will make you want to take one over the other.


Having named characters and making the upper echelons more sentiment sounds cool to me, mainly because it will add a bunch of much needed flavor and backstory into the army. While they are automatons, they are also supposed to be the remains of an ancient civilization and there's no reason their great champions still can't have distinct and flavorful histories and special rules.


As for adding vehicles...everyone is assuming that the 'fluff' behind the transports is that they carry Necrons. One indication I've gotten is that the theme behind least one of the new transports is still teleportation based. So while it may behave like a typical transport, the look and fluff behind it would still be that the unit is teleporting in using the vehicle's node (perhaps it has a limited node and can only lock onto so many models at a time?). And with the other vehicle which is apparently actually carting models around, perhaps this is the Lord/Retinue ride? Kind of like a super chariot where his entourage and him swoop around killing people? Again, people are somehow assuming that because the Necrons now have transport vehicles it somehow means they don't teleport anymore. But why can't the Lord & his entourage teleport down to the surface before the battle on their ride? Why would EVERYTHING in the army have to teleport instead of being carried? Why can't some stuff teleport and some stuff ride around in a killer ride?

I don't see the problem. I personally thought the Necron army as a whole just lacked diversity and it sounds like they're getting quite a few new units, so I think its great. There's only so many different ways you can have armored robots walking or flying around, so frankly a slew of new vehicles is really the natural direction to go to add new units to the range.


And having Crypteks (the Lord's retinue) that are more sentient than your standard Necron warrior being attached to units is exactly what I was hoping the army would have. It allows your plain jane Necron units to have a bit of difference while still keeping the basic premise that your Warrior units are all the same...its just a Cryptek has broken off to lead the unit that makes the difference between unit A and unit B.



But as always, it will ultimately come down to how the new models fit in the range. If they pull off the look of the new stuff, I don't see why the army can't finally be both unique from other armies AND more fun to play (as you now have much more diversity amongst your units as a Necron player).






Automatically Appended Next Post:

mondo80 wrote:Does yakface work for GW? the last faq for necrons was written by him.

kenzosan wrote:

mondo80 wrote:Does yakface work for GW? the last faq for necrons was written by him.

if so, that puts alot of credibility to his rumors

I do not, nor have I ever worked for Games Workshop. They 'thanked' me in some of their previous FAQs, that is quite a bit different from me writing them (I did not write any FAQs for GW).

Savis wrote:I really don't understand why people are so scared of change. Would you prefer to have no Necrons, no SoB, no Dark Eldar, no Chaos, etc. (Granted you would have squats instead) and go back to RT days? Change alters things that's the very foundation of change. Sure all change isn't good but it keeps the momentum going which is a great thing for the hobby.

This is a false dilemma. Stagnation and degeneration are not the only two options available.

I can't really see a 'climb in and go' transport for the Necrons, it just doesn't sit right to me. But if they're teleport based, I'd be perfectly fine with it. Semantics, but very different for an army such as this.

I'd also prefer not to see the Pariahs leave, just reworked to fit cc units nowadays. Though i could see them as that new 'bodyguard-esque' unit, the Crypteks

if its a portal type 'trasport' that will be fine, but a necron rhino? If its a necron rhino who wants 9000 points of necrons including 7 monoliths and a pylon?

iproxtaco wrote:Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
No, not really.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
No.
Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
No.

Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
Yes, Daemons of Chaos army book. Singlehandedly ended fair competitive play in 7th edition.
Fixed with 8th edition rules, whose magic makes fair competitive play nearly impossible with all other armies as well.

Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of fluff?
Grey Knights Codex. Draigo.
Grey Knight planet hiding in the warp.
Grey Knights resisting the temptation of the Blood God by slaughtering Sororitas and bathing in their blood.
Making them work for all Inquisition branches.
Making an Inquisition force legal that consists almost completely of Xenos, non-communicative and non-controllable Xenos to be precise (with no explanation deemed necessary).

Does Matt Ward deserve the amount of hatred he recieves?
Well, he honestly earned some of it

Yeah, Ward is playing 40k on a different planet than the rest of us. I don't hate the guy but he seriously needs an editor that knows at least something about the 40k universe. It would make his writing easier to swallow.

I'm 100% excited about new models, to be sure. I'm mostly excited about new rules, because as the last few codexes have shown, it means Necrons will be the new OMGWTFBBQ unit, and that's kinda cool.

It's the fluff that concerns me at most.

Mr Yak, sir, have you heard anything re basic stats changes for necron units?

One of the commonest complaints I've heard over the years is the fact that a basic warrior is effectively a MEq, when it would make sense for a robot to have, well, _something_ significantly different compared to a marine. What that difference would actually be is a fascinating question - BS5? WS2? T6 and no armour save?

I for one would really like them to not be so MEq...

yakface wrote:
For the 'new' WBB rule, I was dreading seeing yet another army with Feel No Pain yet the existing WBB rule is just TERRIBLE to play with. The new rule seems like a nice compromise. While its only on a 5+ now instead of a 4+, the fact that you get to take that save against any type of weaponry means that in certain situations its going to net you about the same amount of resiliency that the current WBB does, in some situations it will net you less and in some situations it will net you more. Also, the opponent knows exatly what he needs to do to cancel out the save (wipe the unit out or break it), so the old strategy of pounding on individual Necron units until you wipe them out remains in place. And we have no idea what units have the 'ever-living' rule or if there are any things that provide that rule to other units (maybe like the resurrection Orb?), so there may be plenty of different ways to help bolster this new WBB rule in the army.

Compromise?Compromise between what?If the rumor turn to be true it will mean that they just broke the rule even more than it was broken before, the major problem in playing necrons was to keep those god damn warriors alive as those were swept in CC thanks to ridiculous Ld modifications and low I, those changes will simply screw them more.

What the hell was about You guys with Yours"pleas don't let them have FnP, not another FnP army"? It is the deffinition of their army,the true core of their background and rules, the core of the atmosphere the army has when You play them or against, they should have the rule similar or even better than FnP, they are self repairing automatons made from living metal, it is like getting of the FnP from the death guard, because "there shouldn't be any more army with this rule", even if the GW would give FnP to another armies necron should get their rule alt least on the level of FnP just because they are necron

Awesome post Yak!

Great post Yak. At least I have some motives for my nec-playing friend to buy more immortals now...

great post Yak.

Nerd rage knows no bounds. a friend of mine has been playing necrons since their original release and is stoked about this new information. I agree that transports should remain like the monolith (i.e. mobile teleport nodes). Although the idea of a lord on a a sky chariot with a retinue is kinda cool from a modelling pespective. I personally agree with you regarding WBB being a good compromise between overly complicated with certain vulnerabilities and feel no pain. It basically is as someone jested a Ward save. Fortunately it seems to work well and in almost the same manner as it did previously. Most of the changes make sense to me and I'm looking forward to seeing how this may evolve into the finished product.

Thanks for sharing yak.

ryanstartalker wrote:Great post Yak. At least I have some motives for my nec-playing friend to buy more immortals now...

wasn't there a rumour about all the destroyer/ immortal based models changing?

The bigger new model necrons was in another rumour post so who knows the accruacy but I do hope they are remodelled too similar to the warriors at the moment for me.

I just hope the models stay, or become even more, Grimdark.

I don't want to see the model range ruined with anything similar to the style of the Dreadknight.

Kurgash wrote:But the original doesn't let GW sell us unnecessary transports for an army that mastered phase technology.

Unnecessary transports?
Necrons suck in melee. Why would you want them to teleport into assault range of marines, orks, tyranids, dark eldar and such?
Having a protective transport vehicle with no ceiling, allowing the necron warriors to slowly hover forwars over the battle field at the same, slow tempo of a Necron warrior (6" a time to be able to shoot) and blasting stuff up left to right seems like tremendeously Necrony-image to me.

Note that the transports are not "Fast" as Dark Eldar's are, but skimmers (I do not know of a single necron vehicle, or vehicle-like thing that is not. The monolith is a skimmer, for those of you who have forgotten). And open topped means that they're probably more of a platform, protected by force-fields (the +2ArmorValuethings) shielding the embarked Warriors.
After something like this it feels kind of a dumb idea for a Necron Lord to have his army completley unprotectedagainst tanks, mortars and assault units (to me)


Thing that worries me more is the "Tomb Blade" jetbikes. I got the feeling with both BA and GK-codexes that MW jsut wants to take things from my Dark Eldar and give a better version of it to the codex he's writing ;P . Just hope the don't have a turboboost attack


H.B.M.C. wrote:

"As for the Necrons... I'm starting to think my Necron underdog army might get too much of a boost for me to find them interesting :("

Well, the fact that Necron's are considered "underdogs" are just a product of the newer codexes being good, and their antTank ability being nerfed due to 5th core rules.
Necrons certainly where Never intended, nor designed to be an underdog army. They where upon first release, actually, as I understand it, basically designed to be the "Overdog" army.

Would people stop attributing that quote to me. Or if you must, edit it into a sentence I might actually use, such as:

"As for the Necrons... I'm starting to think M. Night Ward will give them a set of needlessly convoluted and unnecessarily complex yet still competitive and fun rules all the while taking the fluff behind the barn for a good ol' [redacted]ing!"

Savis wrote:Would you prefer to have no Necrons, no SoB, no Dark Eldar, no Chaos, etc. (Granted you would have squats instead) and go back to RT days?

*checks over thread*

Can't really see anyone advocating (let alone suggesting) that. That makes the above statement a bit of a 'strawman argument', don't'cha think?

kaldanesh wrote:Nerd rage knows no bounds

Neither do the continued attempts at dismissing potentially legitimate criticism via the use of slander and labelling.

Kroothawk wrote:Making an Inquisition force legal that consists almost completely of Xenos, non-communicative and non-controllable Xenos to be precise (with no explanation deemed necessary).

And Daemons! Don't forget the fact that you can now have Grey Knights leading squads of Daemons.

if this is true then excuse me whule i go chang my pants seems that ill be breaking out my old necrons woo time to wake up sleepy heads

This is definitely not what I was hoping for with Necrons. :(

I *like* WBB. Part of the attraction I have to Necrons is their ability to overcome a lack of mobility with teleportation, getting a free WBB in the process. I love throwing wraiths into assault, losing half of them, teleporting them out of combat after two WBBs to go assault something on the other side of the board. Here it looks like instead of a 3++ followed by a 4+ followed by a 4+, its down to a 3++ (presuming they stay the same) followed by a 5++, with nothing else.

Boo.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Didn't someone from GW say ages back, the Necrons where going to be this rolling thing with each release with more new stuff being added as if the race is slowly waking up?

I really like this idea.

New model ranges, some more character to the army, and who knows we might get some decent background. I will try to be optimistic until the codex arrives

(also, it's great that it's not another SM book!)

Adam LongWalker wrote:Cruddace Wrote a codex...A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.

That...doesn't sound like the tyranid codex at all . With Cruddace you either get a real beat stick or a something very arbitrary. With Ward you reliably get strong rule sets. Hell, you even get properly costed MC.

I have a ton of necrons but have not played them in a good while. They became to weak compared to the newer armies my friends and I were collecting, and in the end they were kind of boring army lists. Don't get me wrong I love the idea, or my idea at least, of necrons marching in rows unloading on enemies like the robots from the Terminator movies. I have my prefrences on what I hope to see and not see in the new book, but at least they are getting a new book! I have a Grey Knights army and at first everyone was saying how broken it was and cheesy I was for getting them, but after some games, now people seem to put them around blood angels in power level and that is a good place to aim IMO. If every army tries to out power IG and SW then the game is going to keep spiraling out of control to the point it will soon need a reset of some kind. In fact I don't want my army to be the best broken thing out, I want a good army, with nice build options that I can use my own experience and skill to win with. As for the fluff, yeah some of the codexes have some silly stuff in them, but this game is meant to be over the top, I mean it is the year 40k. So I don't mind some crazy fluff here and there if they just give me a good balanced book. In fact it is the silly crazy fluff that I remember most from many books. I don't know much about orks, but I do know the time traveliling to get your own gun again thing. A lot of people think Draigo's fluff is lame. I kind of saw it that way at first, but now I think of him as a holy Sam Beckett, and I loves me some QL, so it changed my opinion of him. No the book will not be exactly what I want, but I'll latch on to the parts I really like, buy the stuff I need to do so, and roll dice using a new shiny codex. If there is nothing in the book that I like than I'm back where a I currently am, and my army will collect more cobwebs. I'm hoping for the best and excited for anything but the worst, I'm sure it will be somewhere in the middle and that is fine by me.

I'm going to reserve full judgment until I see everything in the codex. Transports I can simply not add to a list. Pariahs being discontinued I can live with, I don't have many. I'm waiting to see the full spectrum of things before I decide how I'll play my little metal bastards. A change in playstyle I welcome as move-shoot-move away from an incoming charge-shoot does get boring after 9 years.

wyomingfox wrote:

Adam LongWalker wrote:Cruddace Wrote a codex...A codex that kept the theme of the previous codex. To me this is the first codex in a very long time that I did not have to shelf models away because of nerfing/removing models from one of my armies. I am going to buy MORE models not because that I need to make my army competitive again, because I WANT too buy more models because they are beautiful and will fit my theme.

That...doesn't sound like the tyranid codex at all . With Cruddace you either get a real beat stick or a something very arbitrary. With Ward you reliably get strong rule sets. Hell, you even get properly costed MC.

And with Tyranid players you get a sense of entitlement that is ridiculous.

Tyranids were powerful in their previous incarnation. Things were toned down. They are still powerful, but now require a modicum of skill that was previously unnecessary.