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sebster wrote:

biccat wrote:Spanking, slapping, or hitting a kid when they do something wrong (as punishment, not as a beating) doesn't teach them that "might makes right" or any other "bad lesson." (Assuming, of course, that might makes right is a bad lesson).

Well, it might, if the only reason the child has to obey the parent is fear of getting spanked.

But then, that's a problem that occurs when the respect is gone, because the parent has failed in so many other ways.

If the respect is gone, then hitting or no hitting you're fethed either way. If the respect is there, then hitting or not the kid will probably turn out alright.

Parents should be required to get a licence in order to raise children.

You need a licence to drive a car (legally), you need a licence to own a gun (use of said item is a different piscatorial bucket).
You DON'T need a licence to royally feth up the next generation with inadequate control methods.

Although my opinions on childraising are more or less irrelevant. I do not have any (despite being old enough to have grandchildren) nor do I have any intention of changing this outlook.
More than a few of the local sprogs could benefit from their parents clearing the slate and starting over. Shootin's too good fer 'em. Make 'em never have existed is better.

chromedog wrote:

sebster wrote:

biccat wrote:Spanking, slapping, or hitting a kid when they do something wrong (as punishment, not as a beating) doesn't teach them that "might makes right" or any other "bad lesson." (Assuming, of course, that might makes right is a bad lesson).

Well, it might, if the only reason the child has to obey the parent is fear of getting spanked.

But then, that's a problem that occurs when the respect is gone, because the parent has failed in so many other ways.

If the respect is gone, then hitting or no hitting you're fethed either way. If the respect is there, then hitting or not the kid will probably turn out alright.

Parents should be required to get a licence in order to raise children.

You need a licence to drive a car (legally), you need a licence to own a gun (use of said item is a different piscatorial bucket).
You DON'T need a licence to royally feth up the next generation with inadequate control methods.

Although my opinions on childraising are more or less irrelevant. I do not have any (despite being old enough to have grandchildren) nor do I have any intention of changing this outlook.
More than a few of the local sprogs could benefit from their parents clearing the slate and starting over. Shootin's too good fer 'em. Make 'em never have existed is better.

I agree. Licensing should be required internationally for parenting. Im sick of seeing overly soft parents and overly hard parents. Kids have to be kids, but mature and respectful too.

killykavekommando wrote:Kids have to be kids, but mature and respectful too.

This does not compute.

Medium of Death wrote:Washing a child's mouth out with soap is borderline insanity.

Your parents are fethed in the head.

AJAX tastes like b#$@# but yeah its not insanity it works trust me but the belt is what made me learn to make the right decisions and the wooden spoon will strengthen you conscious

Seems entirely unnecessary to knock children around the way suggested on this thread and the use of implements is just absurd. I was probably hit only once or twice as a child and not hard. I didn't need to be beaten with straps to be raised properly.

If you strike your child even more than the most occasional basis then there's something quite wrong somewhere. Likely the behaviour problems are the result of other issues, perhaps your general approach to bringing them up or their home environment. Slapping them around instead of working on the problem more constructively is tantamount to abuse. For a start, use of physical force has a great deal of shock power, but use it regularly and there is no shock value, it's just about inflicting short term pain.

I don't think anyone has been advocating knocking a kid around, instead they are saying a simple smack, not with a load of force though.

Some people have suggested using implements, feeding their kid soap and hitting them across the face.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Some people have suggested using implements, feeding their kid soap and hitting them across the face.

=/= "knocking your kids around" in their world view, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Howard A Treesong wrote:I was probably hit only once or twice as a child and not hard. I didn't need to be beaten with straps to be raised properly.

I'm not picking a side here, but how does anyone decide that they were "raised properly?" At least to a sufficient degree that they feel qualified to criticize the way others are parenting?

Monster Rain wrote:I'm not picking a side here, but how does anyone decide that they were "raised properly?" At least to a sufficient degree that they feel qualified to criticize the way others are parenting?

Best post of this thread.

Monster Rain wrote:
I'm not picking a side here, but how does anyone decide that they were "raised properly?" At least to a sufficient degree that they feel qualified to criticize the way others are parenting?

What measures do you suggest? I've been successful through school, I'm married, I've never had so much as a speeding ticket in relation to the law, I've never been in a fight. I didn't need to have my life lessons beaten into me to be a sociable law abiding individual. I think I turned out okay for someone that wasn't hit with spoons and belts.

My wife has taught in schools and there's a very common relationship between kids that are disruptive with those coming from bad backgrounds. Physical punishment clearly doesn't produce a well behaved child because a lot of the worst behaved kids are those that are punished in that manner. I don't think kids are born bad, so what shapes their behaviour? If you find yourself having to use force more than as a rare last resort then there's a problem and it probably isn't rooted in the child. Look around you.

Must be a cultural thing then. Because I can tell you over here anyways, the worst behaved children are usually the ones whos parents are the "talk to them" types. But I should further explain, by that I mean the lazy ones that just constantly say "Stop that child #7, stop it, dont do that *break something* Aww I said to stop, cut it out, really and so on and so on"

Ive given myself time to think on this thread a bit, instead of getting annoyed with people on here about their practices. Although personally, Im an advocate for spankings, I also do explain to my kids why they are being punished and make sure they know why it was wrong. I think so many of us, on both sides are getting defensive because we all feel like our methods work and so are all getting a bit insulted/defensive when questioned on it. Almost like saying "Your a bad parent because....."

I think the most important tool, to raising children is really being there for them, constantly. The kids that are "bad" kids are the ones that are abused both mentally/emotionally and have lazy parents that are neither there for them, or consistent in their parenting. I use my parents as a template for raising mine, becuase I know how happy I was growing up, and I had the "cool" parents growing up. It was weird hearing my friends constantly tell us how nice they are, how fun they are, and how they wished their parents were like that. Sad thing is, most of those friends that said those things, are in jail or total feth ups. Yes I was spanked and grounded and punished, but my parents raised 3 boyz, and we are all pretty solid individuals. So I use that method as well, and Im sure if your parents were consistent and caring and showed you interest beyond TV, then you would find their method just as useful.

KingCracker wrote:Must be a cultural thing then. Because I can tell you over here anyways, the worst behaved children are usually the ones whos parents are the "talk to them" types. But I should further explain, by that I mean the lazy ones that just constantly say "Stop that child #7, stop it, dont do that *break something* Aww I said to stop, cut it out, really and so on and so on"

Ive given myself time to think on this thread a bit, instead of getting annoyed with people on here about their practices. Although personally, Im an advocate for spankings, I also do explain to my kids why they are being punished and make sure they know why it was wrong. I think so many of us, on both sides are getting defensive because we all feel like our methods work and so are all getting a bit insulted/defensive when questioned on it. Almost like saying "Your a bad parent because....."

I think the most important tool, to raising children is really being there for them, constantly. The kids that are "bad" kids are the ones that are abused both mentally/emotionally and have lazy parents that are neither there for them, or consistent in their parenting. I use my parents as a template for raising mine, becuase I know how happy I was growing up, and I had the "cool" parents growing up. It was weird hearing my friends constantly tell us how nice they are, how fun they are, and how they wished their parents were like that. Sad thing is, most of those friends that said those things, are in jail or total feth ups. Yes I was spanked and grounded and punished, but my parents raised 3 boyz, and we are all pretty solid individuals. So I use that method as well, and Im sure if your parents were consistent and caring and showed you interest beyond TV, then you would find their method just as useful.

Pretty much the summary of those advocating "corporal punishment".
We all get to know our little ones and no-one can say they know them better (unless again we are dealing with the mentally absent parent)
You use what is "appropriate" (as best we can see it) to guide the child toward being a "good person" which everyone has a different opinion on.
If I create a Nobel prize winner or a serial killer I am sure I will give this thread an update... because the real kicker is you can never be 100% sure you did it all "right".

Jeffry Dahmers is a perfect example of that one. His parents said he had a really normal childhood, and were really surprised when they learned of what he did. Hell everyone was shocked really.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
I'm not picking a side here, but how does anyone decide that they were "raised properly?" At least to a sufficient degree that they feel qualified to criticize the way others are parenting?

What measures do you suggest? I've been successful through school, I'm married, I've never had so much as a speeding ticket in relation to the law, I've never been in a fight. I didn't need to have my life lessons beaten into me to be a sociable law abiding individual. I think I turned out okay for someone that wasn't hit with spoons and belts.

My wife has taught in schools and there's a very common relationship between kids that are disruptive with those coming from bad backgrounds. Physical punishment clearly doesn't produce a well behaved child because a lot of the worst behaved kids are those that are punished in that manner. I don't think kids are born bad, so what shapes their behaviour? If you find yourself having to use force more than as a rare last resort then there's a problem and it probably isn't rooted in the child. Look around you.

Any methods anyone suggests are irrelvant because they are purely arbitrary on a personal and cultural level, everyone will make up their own minds on what is the 'right' and 'wrong' way to raise children based purely on two things, their own experiences in life and what society demands of them, it has always been and always continue to be different for everyone.

To be fair, a single school is hardly anymore evidence than any other purely anecdotal story people have told in this thread, an average school in a Western country is what? 500-1000 students, of those, no more than about 10% (give or take ) of those will behave badly enough for it to be noted in the school's records at one point or another in their time at that school, of those again only about 10% (give or take) will be repeat and/or particularly troublesome offenders, so we are really only looking at about 5-10 (give or take) kids per school which really is no where near an adequate population size to make assumptions such as "Physical punishment clearly doesn't produce a well behaved child because a lot of the worst behaved kids are those that are punished in that manner", If you can make that assumption based on one school than I can just as easily say recount that all the bad kids at my school are the ones with the 'sit down and explain' parents, does that mean I can make the assumption that "Lack of physical punishment clearly doesn't produce a well behaved child because a lot of the worst behaved kids are those that are treated in that manner?
No, it doesn't

Krellnus wrote:Any methods anyone suggests are irrelvant because they are purely arbitrary on a personal and cultural level, everyone will make up their own minds on what is the 'right' and 'wrong' way to raise children based purely on two things, their own experiences in life and what society demands of them, it has always been and always continue to be different for everyone.

This was pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Personally, I don't think someone has been properly raised until they slay a Krayt dragon or wear one of those gloves full of bullet ants.

Monster Rain wrote:

Krellnus wrote:Any methods anyone suggests are irrelvant because they are purely arbitrary on a personal and cultural level, everyone will make up their own minds on what is the 'right' and 'wrong' way to raise children based purely on two things, their own experiences in life and what society demands of them, it has always been and always continue to be different for everyone.

This was pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Personally, I don't think someone has been properly raised until they slay a Krayt dragon or wear one of those gloves full of bullet ants.

Call me a complete fruit basket, but I think I would try that if I found myself around one of the tribes that do that ritual

I find land mines help keep my daughter in check.

There so far been a good deal of opinions on this matter.

This has me wonder:
- How does this, Children and Discipline apply to other people?

Example:
A couple seperates, and later on, one of the parents finds another parther. In this case of a newly-added substitution dad/mom - what are his or her authorities towards the kid(s)?

I think that its up to the biological parent to determine what rights the new partner has with the children, and maybe for the older children to be consulted.

Billinator wrote:Example:
A couple seperates, and later on, one of the parents finds another parther. In this case of a newly-added substitution dad/mom - what are his or her authorities towards the kid(s)?

Based on Disney movies, I think the step parent is suppose to enslave or attempt to murder the children out of jealousy.

Monster Rain wrote:

Billinator wrote:Example:
A couple seperates, and later on, one of the parents finds another parther. In this case of a newly-added substitution dad/mom - what are his or her authorities towards the kid(s)?

Based on Disney movies, I think the step parent is suppose to enslave or attempt to murder the children out of jealousy.

In other words: You better fething be jealous of the kids?

Oh, Raines - keep those graines of gold coming! <3

KingCracker wrote:Must be a cultural thing then. Because I can tell you over here anyways, the worst behaved children are usually the ones whos parents are the "talk to them" types. But I should further explain, by that I mean the lazy ones that just constantly say "Stop that child #7, stop it, dont do that *break something* Aww I said to stop, cut it out, really and so on and so on"

Sure, there needs to be a punishment. But there are a whole range of options between 'no punishment' and 'physical punishment'; time out, denial of toys, all kinds of things.

I think the most important tool, to raising children is really being there for them, constantly. The kids that are "bad" kids are the ones that are abused both mentally/emotionally and have lazy parents that are neither there for them, or consistent in their parenting.

Yes, definitely. Parenting is about making time for your kids, setting clear standards, being a role model, providing a stable home environment, and so many other things. Punishment is a very minor issue, and the people in this thread who've attempted to assign the good and poor behaviour of kids just to the method of punishment have been ignoring almost everything that really matters.