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LunaHound wrote:And? some of us havnt played in the Rogue Trader and GK hasnt been out till like last year. And Jokaeros existing since Rogue Traders makes my point any more invalid how?

Because the entire point is that people whine about Jokaeros in a Mat Ward thread, implying that he's somehow responsible for inventing them, which he's not. I didn't play during Rogue Trader either, mind you.

LunaHound wrote:And? some of us havnt played in the Rogue Trader and GK hasnt been out till like last year. And Jokaeros existing since Rogue Traders makes my point any more invalid how?

So that is an excuse to be rude and condescending ?

Alright so be it.

His point is that Mat Ward is not responsible at all for the Jokaero working with the Imperium, as they predate his work on the current Codex for Grey Knights.

Pouncey wrote:

LunaHound wrote:And? some of us havnt played in the Rogue Trader and GK hasnt been out till like last year. And Jokaeros existing since Rogue Traders makes my point any more invalid how?

So that is an excuse to be rude and condescending ?

Alright so be it.

His point is that Mat Ward is not responsible at all for the Jokaero working with the Imperium, as they predate his work on the current Codex for Grey Knights.

I know what his point is, but I have never seen that used as a valid excuse to avert responsibilities because:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

LunaHound wrote:And? some of us havnt played in the Rogue Trader and GK hasnt been out till like last year. And Jokaeros existing since Rogue Traders makes my point any more invalid how?

Because the entire point is that people whine about Jokaeros in a Mat Ward thread, implying that he's somehow responsible for inventing them, which he's not. I didn't play during Rogue Trader either, mind you.

Then he had the choice to contest / voice his opinion to GW on something stupid such as concept of Jokaero in Inquisition / GK codex.

Someone with their name printed boldly on a book "Grey Knights by Mat Ward" , share a double edged sword when it comes with responsibilities...
They get the glory , as well as the boos when they allow something dumb to be included.

Dont you agree?

Pouncey wrote:

LunaHound wrote:And? some of us havnt played in the Rogue Trader and GK hasnt been out till like last year. And Jokaeros existing since Rogue Traders makes my point any more invalid how?

So that is an excuse to be rude and condescending ?

Alright so be it.

His point is that Mat Ward is not responsible at all for the Jokaero working with the Imperium, as they predate his work on the current Codex for Grey Knights.

As if fluff that "predates his work on the current Codex for Grey Knights" has anything at all to do with anything Ward has ever produced. Ward has done so much violence to canon that predated his work on GK (not to mention subsequent to his work on GK, like the execrable Necron fluff), that no canon can be considered safe. If he'd wanted to write the jokaero out, he'd have done it quicker than a Grey Knight can slaughter a Bolter Barbie. Either he wanted xenos working with GK, despite their supposed "purity", or some nameless suit(s) at GW wanted it for some future sales event. Or possibly both: he wanted to write them out but was overruled. The most likely scenario IMO is the one that makes Ward look most like a canon-killer.

So if he writes new fluff it's stupid and if he includes old fluff it's stupid?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So if he writes new fluff it's stupid and if he includes old fluff it's stupid?

I don't have a problem with the Jokero working for the Imperium. I do have a problem with them working in the field with the Grey Knights, as before they were more of a 'radical' thing.

BaronIveagh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So if he writes new fluff it's stupid and if he includes old fluff it's stupid?

I don't have a problem with the Jokero working for the Imperium. I do have a problem with them working in the field with the Grey Knights, as before they were more of a 'radical' thing.

Consider the fact that the current GK is both GK and Inquisitor

Is the Jokereo a standard unit that can be taken normally? No? It requires an Inquisitor to take a Henchmen Squad? So that means they require the Inquisition to take, not a standard GK unit.

Not to mention Jokereo aren't exactly radical, they were accepted by puritans (not the Major ones) for various uses in technology for the Imperium.

The main problem is that the GK's were forced into the whole of the inquisition so they could push it all in there.

the last book mat ward wrote that I actually enjoyed the fluff of was skaven. since then, his books have been filled to the brim with some of the most ridiculous and obnoxious fluff/stories in existence.

also, the copious addition of the word 'blood' to every single unit and piece of wargear in the blood angels codex is reminiscent of fan content by a seven year old fanboy.

Testify wrote:The reason Matt Ward is unpopular is because he wrote the most recent codexes, which have all suffered from power creep.

Really? Seven pages in and that's the conclusion you draw? Because they're 'new'? Seven pages of people talking about fluff, and 'power creep' is the revelation you've discovered?

Jayden63 wrote:Another one that causes a great need for face palming IMO is the Sanguinor fluff. His "Here I come to save the day!" approach is just laughable the way its handled.

It was a matter of escalation.

In the Marine Codex, Calgar takes on an Avatar and wins, but damn near gets himself killed in the process, stopping the Wailing Doom only because of his unobtanium gauntlets. In the Blood Angel Codex, the Mary Sueguinor beats up an Avatar with one angelic hand tied behind his angelic back. In the Grey Knight Codex, Draigo fights the universe and wins.

The first was sorta passable, the second was simply stupid... and the third... by the Throne...

BaronIveagh wrote:I don't have a problem with the Jokero working for the Imperium. I do have a problem with them working in the field with the Grey Knights, as before they were more of a 'radical' thing.

If that bothers you, then what about units of Daemonhosts being led by Grey Knight characters?

Super fluffy there...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

It was a matter of escalation.

In the Marine Codex, Calgar takes on an Avatar and wins, but damn near gets himself killed in the process, stopping the Wailing Doom only because of his unobtanium gauntlets. In the Blood Angel Codex, the Mary Sueguinor beats up an Avatar with one angelic hand tied behind his angelic back. In the Grey Knight Codex, Draigo fights the universe and wins.

The first was sorta passable, the second was simply stupid... and the third... by the Throne...
..

Beware of the 4 horsemen, aka codices by M:W.


Heard he was restrained recently, so maybe GW isn't fond of the "final destination of fluffiness" that is him set loose?

eh, who knows? he's probably GW's golden boy. for every one of us complaining, i'm sure fifteen jumped ship over to one of those armies.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Because the entire point is that people whine about Jokaeros in a Mat Ward thread, implying that he's somehow responsible for inventing them, which he's not. I didn't play during Rogue Trader either, mind you.

Actually, the point is that Mat Ward took the existing Jokaero background from Rogue Trader, turned it 180 degree and presented it as if nothing happened. Jokaeroes were known for 2 things: Making digital weapons and being uncontrollable by anyone. And making Ordo Xenos armies consisting almost exclusively of Xenos is now possible with Mat Ward, don't ask why.

BaronIveagh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So if he writes new fluff it's stupid and if he includes old fluff it's stupid?

I don't have a problem with the Jokero working for the Imperium. I do have a problem with them working in the field with the Grey Knights, as before they were more of a 'radical' thing.

Thank you I agree with you this. If GK's refuse to fight side by side with regiments with abhumans like Ogryns and ratlings who are still subspecies of human race... why would they fight with Jokaero? I mean Ultramarines, Salamanders and other's more compassionate marines I understand but GK's should the the super-zealot-hardcore-extremists and all literal interpitation of rules. But it would be good if Ward was restricted. I mean 6th edition book is very balanced, even he has been involved making it.

thejamppa wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So if he writes new fluff it's stupid and if he includes old fluff it's stupid?

I don't have a problem with the Jokero working for the Imperium. I do have a problem with them working in the field with the Grey Knights, as before they were more of a 'radical' thing.

Thank you I agree with you this. If GK's refuse to fight side by side with regiments with abhumans like Ogryns and ratlings who are still subspecies of human race... why would they fight with Jokaero? I mean Ultramarines, Salamanders and other's more compassionate marines I understand but GK's should the the super-zealot-hardcore-extremists and all literal interpitation of rules. But it would be good if Ward was restricted. I mean 6th edition book is very balanced, even he has been involved making it.

Funnily enough, he does do good editionwork at times, 8th edition fantasy was pretty good.

thejamppa wrote: I mean 6th edition book is very balanced, even he has been involved making it.

Could You elaborate?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Testify wrote:The reason Matt Ward is unpopular is because he wrote the most recent codexes, which have all suffered from power creep.

Really? Seven pages in and that's the conclusion you draw? Because they're 'new'? Seven pages of people talking about fluff, and 'power creep' is the revelation you've discovered?

We play a wargame. Fluff is irrelevent in the context of having something you've spent years building being made obsolete overnight.

Plenty of codexes with bad fluff (i.e. most of them) but no one cares if the power is scaled correctly.

heckler wrote:the last book mat ward wrote that I actually enjoyed the fluff of was skaven. since then, his books have been filled to the brim with some of the most ridiculous and obnoxious fluff/stories in existence.

also, the copious addition of the word 'blood' to every single unit and piece of wargear in the blood angels codex is reminiscent of fan content by a seven year old fanboy.

Jeremy Vetock wrote the current Skaven book, while Alessio wrote the previous one.

Ward's Fantasy books include the 6th edition Wood Elves, 7th edition suck-fest O&G's and the utter abomination that is Daemons of Chaos.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Funnily enough, he does do good editionwork at times, 8th edition fantasy was pretty good.

8th edition is still fairly well balanced simply because one specific author has yet to pen another army book to ruin the system!

Hell, even Vampire Counts are pretty sane right now!
We'll see how the balancing act continues as the next rumored books are said to be Warriors of Chaos, High Elves & Daemons of Chaos, and if/when a certain author gets his worthless mitts on one of those armies...

8th edition is still fairly well balanced simply because one specific author has yet to pen another army book to ruin the system!

Yes but it also kept in check the most horrible of the 7th edition armies, DoC, DE, VC, and Skaven.

I never want to face a 7th edition battle against DE or VC ever again to say the least.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It was a matter of escalation.

In the Marine Codex, Calgar takes on an Avatar and wins, but damn near gets himself killed in the process, stopping the Wailing Doom only because of his unobtanium gauntlets. In the Blood Angel Codex, the Mary Sueguinor beats up an Avatar with one angelic hand tied behind his angelic back. In the Grey Knight Codex, Draigo fights the universe and wins.

The first was sorta passable, the second was simply stupid... and the third... by the Throne...

Actually, I was thinking how it could possibly escalate from there with the next Chaos Codex? What could a new Chaos character do that could trump Draigo's exploits?

Then I thought of time travel... and the missing Primarchs..

People just like to bash him for various reasons. For example, Kaldor Draigo's fluff is among the most debated ones. Basically he is just like Andy Chambers used to be a few years back. A guy who can seemingly be blamed for anything and who people think is the origin and root of all that is evil and bad. Most of this hate comes from ignorant people, who have their 40k knowledge from Dawn of War video games and who may not even play the board game at all.

The hate started from the C:SM which he wrote for 5ft edition. People claimed its fluff was as it continued the age-old tradition of glorifying the Ultramarines, a chapter which GW has always used to advertise their franchise. His book took this a little further, and claimed that Guilliman is the Spiritual Liege of all other Codex chapters, and that those chapters who didn't think so highly of him were outcasts in the eyes of others. Agreed, he went a little overboard with that piece of fluff, but tbh he did nothing which haven't been done before. His book also included fluff for other chapters, as well as many new non-Ultramarine heroes, which the previous editions lacked. The book in terms of crunch was very well written. Space Marines were balanced, and almost all of their units were usable, unlike those of certain other writers. Overall, I think it was a very well written book, both in terms of fluff and crunch, if not for the Spiritual Liege bit of the fluff which went a little overboard.

The second thing was Codex Blood Angels, which initially seemed to be overpowered when people heard the rumors. Turns out the book was not as overpowered as was speculated, but very competitive instead. It again featured excellent crunch, which allowed a number of tactical options from shooty army lists to jump pack heavy, mobile builds. I for one loved the fluff, and I think it is his best book after C:Necrons. Some people in the internet (usually in Youtube) make silly complaints about how they think deepstriking land raiders and flying librarian dreads are incredibly overpowered and how they broke the game. If you go looking, you will find many ridiculous videos about those subjects, from Der Untergang parodies to bizarre rants made by DOW players. An experienced player knows how stupid it is to deep strike a 12'' long Land Raider anywhere, or to sacrifice a psychic power just to jump around with your libby dread. Most of this hate originates to 1d4chan, which is a notorious trash site where immature people write articles about how they hate Matt Ward.

Third reason was Codex Grey Knights. Now, this is a sensible subject, from which people usually argue on for 20+ pages. Main reason is the aforementioned Kaldor Draigo, who seems to be so otherworldly powerful that he can walk around in the warp, kill Greater Daemons as he passes by them, destroy entire realms such as the Gardens of Nurgle and the Inevitable City, and who apparently is completely immune to corruption of any kind. So he wanders around the Warp and slaughters anything that gets in his way, sometimes having the chance to return to the material universe in order to battle with his fellow GK against some particularly vicious Daemon, only to be sucked into the Warp again. Some say he is the ultimate Gary Stu, while others, such as I, think he is ok as a concept, but that some of the stuff he apparently has done (Read: carve the name of his master into Mortarion's heart) is exaggerated and unrealistic even by 40k standards. Another much discussed topic in the Codex is the Bloodtide insurrection, where the Grey Knights slaughter innocent Sisters of Battle in order to use their blood as a more effective warding against the magical tide of blood. Some have stated that the GK shouldn't need protection like that, for they should be incorruptible as such. Others have even gone as far as to blame Matt Ward from being a misogynist, an argument that is ridiculous at best. He also enstablished fluff according to which even Grey Knights are corruptible by Chaos, and the fallen ones are called Khornate Knights. This reversed the previous assumpion that they could not be corrupted, an assumpion which had been around for over ten years of canon. In his defense one can say that the previous versions didn't exactly mention they couldn't be corrupted, merely that none of them had never been corrupted as of yet. Overall, he remade the Daemon Hunters into a very small, elite army, which can be devastating against Psykers and Daemons and which is unbelievably competitive. The Codex was slightly overpowered to be honest, and the fluff wasn't so good either. This was his worst book, and a key reason for his hate.

His other works, such as C:Sisters of Battle, C:Chaos Daemons and C:Necrons have not caused as much criticism as the ones I described in detail. There were major balance issues with C:Sisters of Battle, which he wrote with Cruddace and which made the army very far from being competitive. But overall, the other books have faced generally positive critique, even from some of his haters. All in all, the man writes Codices which are very balanced against each other, but sometimes his fluff is a bit weird. When Matt Ward writes a book, rest assured it will be very competitive and versatile, but be prepared for major changes in the fluff of the army in question.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
The second thing was Codex Blood Angels, which initially seemed to be overpowered when people heard the rumors.

I could easily give you a long list of stuff that is just wrong with the BA codex. Just because GK and Necrons are worse, doesn't mean BA is not just as broken.

Mephiston
Dante's mask
deep striking LR.
17 LR in one force org chart.
Introduction of the StormRaven, when at the time was the only vehicle in the game that could still shoot after moving flat out.
Blendernaughts
Aura buffs
Fast vindicators/preditors

I can probably go on if needed. The BA codex has lots of broken disheartening stuff in it. Just ask anyone who has to play against it regularly.

Jayden63 wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
The second thing was Codex Blood Angels, which initially seemed to be overpowered when people heard the rumors.

I could easily give you a long list of stuff that is just wrong with the BA codex. Just because GK and Necrons are worse, doesn't mean BA is not just as broken.

Mephiston
Who is not even an IC, struggles against every single MC, can be shot to death by Guardsmen and who costs more than a squad of Terminators.
Dante's mask
If you rely that heavily on the stats of a single character, you are either playing as they Tau or can't play at all. Besides, that power comes from a guy who can be killed with one Lascannon shot, and who costs more than a squad of Terminators or a Land Raider. Even Guardsman Marbo can be more deadly in terms of destroying your opponent's plans as he comes with a large blast. He can destroy entire sections of your opponent's army instead of reducing one character's stats. Also costs about 200 points less.
deep striking LR.
Sure, I will laugh when your 12'' long LR hits difficult terrain and dies/I can decide where it Deepstrikes/Delays. Or sure, DS it in the middle of my melta squads and in clear line of fire from Lascannons.
17 LR in one force org chart.
Sure, bring them on. I would love you fielding a pure 4250 point list of LRs. My scoring units and meltas say hi.
Introduction of the StormRaven, when at the time was the only vehicle in the game that could still shoot after moving flat out.
The Codex was obviously made with 6th edition in mind. I always oneshotted my opponent's Raven with IG Lascannon teams in one turn.
Blendernaughts
Which can be melta/lascannon spammed on the turn they arrive on the board. Believe me, you DON'T want to footslog with them.
Aura buffs
Snipers and template weapons say hi again.
Fast vindicators/preditors
Agree.

I can probably go on if needed. The BA codex has lots of broken disheartening stuff in it. Just ask anyone who has to play against it regularly.

I have two players in our FLGS who play as BA. I have never had much trouble winning them with IG, BT, Newcrons or even Nids. The Codex is competitive. Broken, hell no.

Then all I can conclude is that the BA players you play against are chumps, or not spamming that which is truly wrong with the BA codex.

I also notice you didn't have trouble with them with IG and Necrons.... Wow, two armies that are more OP than BA, GK being the third. I'm guessing the BT/Nid win was a fluke as I can't really see how it should have happened vs. a good BA list.

I've seen the Sanguinor and one blendernaught chew through half of a space wolves list by themselves.

Blendernaughts don't walk across the field. They get dropped off via storm raven and charge right in.

Mephiston can be delt with, but it requires a hell of a lot more effort than this 250 points should bring. He is the very definition of bad game design. Need more proof, go look at the most hated special character thread and see how often his name pops up. Clearly he isn't that easy to deal with. You want to make him even more broken. Trade out his powers for the Biomancy psycher table. Now that is just sick and wrong.

Dantes mask seems to always target the two wound guys, its a total nerf if it goes onto a psycher. Also, very bad game design.

Its not the point that you can field 17 landraiders, its again, something that shouldn't happen. Heaven forbid that players might actually have to make a choice, or maybe have to leave something out to get something else. But noooooo, not in a Ward Codex. With every side item being available in every slot, you don't have to make sacrifices, or even maintain some sense of balance.

Its not that its a horrible idea to deep strike your landraider, but again, its just something that should not have been possible in the first place. Total breakdown of the player to game immersion.

The whole codex is just bad game design. Its a divergent chapter that only looses 2 units from the main C:SM codex, and everything gets some sort of buff. Exactly where is the divergence?

6th ed. may have changed a few things, but the BA codex is just as sick and wrong as most everything else Ward has written. Think of it as a stepping stone to ultimate OP kingdoms of the GK and Necrons.

Jayden63 wrote:Then all I can conclude is that the BA players you play against are chumps, or not spamming that which is truly wrong with the BA codex.
You are speaking of two 10-year veteran gamers, not some 12-year-old "chumps". The truth is, you can win with any army as long as you have skill. Only noobs rely heavily on the army they choose. The other uses the typical jump pack spam build, while the other favors an army with Preds and a shooty build. Blood Angels are not overpowered. To say otherwise is to sail right along the ridiculous bandwagoners. Seriously, Blood Angels can be defeated with ease as long as you know what you are doing.

I also notice you didn't have trouble with them with IG and Necrons.... Wow, two armies that are more OP than BA, GK being the third. I'm guessing the BT/Nid win was a fluke as I can't really see how it should have happened vs. a good BA list.
I'll humor you with one example.
BA vs. BT.
The list had Mephiston as HQ, three six-man Assault Squads with one Priest with LC and JP, and a Power Fist and two melta pistols each squad, Sanguinary Guard with Standard and x2 Melta pistols, and one Baal Predator with TL/AC and HB sponsons.

I had Marshal with TH/SS, artificer armor and JP. One Emperior's Champion with AAC. One Dreadnought with TL/LC. Two Squads of Ten initiates each, armed with Power Axe and Melta Gun. One Assault Squad, armed with Melta bombs and Power Fist. Two Land Speeder Tornadoes with MM/HF.

I've seen the Sanguinor and one blendernaught chew through half of a space wolves list by themselves. I must also assume this was a fluke, as SW are monsters in CC. Did the player have any AT? Did he try to charge the Sanguinor with Wolf Scouts? No one in my FLGS has had any major troubles dealing with it. It is a 275 point monstrous creature which has three wounds. Use melta bombs against the thing.

Blendernaughts don't walk across the field. They get dropped off via storm raven and charge right in.
That's why I said to have AT weapons ready. Seriously, it is a fething Dreadnought with two CC weapons. It goes down like the others, it is not some doomday machine which nothing can stop. Use any unit with Haywire, Melta bombs, Lascannons or Melta, and watch it burn.

Mephiston can be delt with, but it requires a hell of a lot more effort than this 250 points should bring. He is the very definition of bad game design. Need more proof, go look at the most hated special character thread and see how often his name pops up. Clearly he isn't that easy to deal with. You want to make him even more broken. Trade out his powers for the Biomancy psycher table. Now that is just sick and wrong.
A character who cannot be put into other squads. A character who is therefore a priority target with no Look Out, Sir. A character who costs more than a Terminator Squad, and is not nearly as effective. A character, who cannot be included in smaller games because his cost would be half the army. A character who struggles against MCs, blob squads, tanks and even plasma gunners. Can you defeat a Terminator squad in one turn? No. Can you defeat Mephiston? Possibly.

Dantes mask seems to always target the two wound guys, its a total nerf if it goes onto a psycher. Also, very bad game design.
And therefore he is the second most expensive commander in the whole book, who can be put to Instant Death, has Initiative 1 after the new BRB (power axe is unwieldy) and who can nerf one single character before the game starts. He isn't going to win you the game with that ability alone. Very few armies are fethed when their commander gets slightly worse stats. Except Tau, but we all know how competitive army they are...

Its not the point that you can field 17 landraiders, its again, something that shouldn't happen. Heaven forbid that players might actually have to make a choice, or maybe have to leave something out to get something else. But noooooo, not in a Ward Codex. With every side item being available in every slot, you don't have to make sacrifices, or even maintain some sense of balance. You can take Land Raiders as Dedicated transports or Heavy Support. How is this different from any other Codex out there? Even BT have that option, and they are the oldest book there is after Tau...

Its not that its a horrible idea to deep strike your landraider, but again, its just something that should not have been possible in the first place. Total breakdown of the player to game immersion.
Right, every and each Marine army should be one and the same. Lets call them all just space marines and forget the different tactics the chapters use. Modern armies can drop tanks from planes as well. How difficult it is to realise they have thousands of years better tech in the future? They can drop a Land Raider from a Modified Thunderhawk in my book. The ability itself is so ridiculous no one even considers using it. Fluff wise? Acceptable. Logic wise? Yes. Gameplay wise? I don't see a problem if you are that eager to wreck your 250p tank.

The whole codex is just bad game design. Its a divergent chapter that only looses 2 units from the main C:SM codex, and everything gets some sort of buff. Exactly where is the divergence?
Being an assault based army with the option of giving every unit a jump pack? Being a fast attacking army with tanks which have Fast rule? Priests which make you fight harder and can be taken as elites? Melta pistols? Deep striking? The Red Thirst? Descent of Angels? Dreadnought Variants? Death Company? Sanguinary Guard???? Fine, if you walk that line, then why are there armies like Dark Angels? Space Wolves? Black Templars?

6th ed. may have changed a few things, but the BA codex is just as sick and wrong as most everything else Ward has written. Think of it as a stepping stone to ultimate OP kingdoms of the GK and Necrons.

I haven't heard a single positive thing from any SoB player regarding the WD SoB update. Well unless you count "Well we aren't completely " as positive. Most of the good vibes about it come from A. hoping that GW is about to do what they did with VC and update us with an actual freaking codex and B. Matt Ward not writing our fluff. The Sisters even got to fight off a whole chaos invasion without any one needing to turn them armor paint!

Jayden63 wrote:I've seen the Sanguinor and one blendernaught chew through half of a space wolves list by themselves.

I've done that (in 6th edition) with an 8 man unit of sternguard (3 combi-meltas and a power fist) and a captain (power sword, bolter, auxiliary grenade launcher) arriving with a drop pod without charging once myself but that was propably just luck

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
The hate started from the C:SM which he wrote for 5ft edition. People claimed its fluff was as it continued the age-old tradition of glorifying the Ultramarines, a chapter which GW has always used to advertise their franchise. His book took this a little further, and claimed that Guilliman is the Spiritual Liege of all other Codex chapters, and that those chapters who didn't think so highly of him were outcasts in the eyes of others. Agreed, he went a little overboard with that piece of fluff, but tbh he did nothing which haven't been done before. His book also included fluff for other chapters, as well as many new non-Ultramarine heroes, which the previous editions lacked. The book in terms of crunch was very well written. Space Marines were balanced, and almost all of their units were usable, unlike those of certain other writers. Overall, I think it was a very well written book, both in terms of fluff and crunch, if not for the Spiritual Liege bit of the fluff which went a little overboard.

People get overly bent out of shape by the fact that the tone of the C:SM's basically comes out and says, 'if your chapter doesn't worship the ultras/Guilliman, than you're doing it wrong!'
The current vanilla codex basically came out and villified all the non-smurf adherents by calling them degenerates that are dying off. For alot of people who came up with their own background, it's kinda a huge slap in the face and belittles their chapter as being 'wrong'.

And the 3rd ed codex also had alot more focus on non-ultra characters, as it included rules for;
- The Emperor's Champion for Black Templars
- Captain Coteaz of the Crimson Fists
- Sergeant Lysander of the Imperial Fists
- Chaplain Xavier (sp?) of the Salamanders

The current book is more or less a throwback to the 3rd edition book, as GW realised that the last codex was too ultras-centric.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:The second thing was Codex Blood Angels, which initially seemed to be overpowered when people heard the rumors. Turns out the book was not as overpowered as was speculated, but very competitive instead. It again featured excellent crunch, which allowed a number of tactical options from shooty army lists to jump pack heavy, mobile builds. I for one loved the fluff, and I think it is his best book after C:Necrons. Some people in the internet (usually in Youtube) make silly complaints about how they think deepstriking land raiders and flying librarian dreads are incredibly overpowered and how they broke the game. If you go looking, you will find many ridiculous videos about those subjects, from Der Untergang parodies to bizarre rants made by DOW players. An experienced player knows how stupid it is to deep strike a 12'' long Land Raider anywhere, or to sacrifice a psychic power just to jump around with your libby dread. Most of this hate originates to 1d4chan, which is a notorious trash site where immature people write articles about how they hate Matt Ward.

Blood Angels are OTT when you compare them to the basic vanilla codex though...

For example, in the vanilla book, to get a Troops choice with a meltagun, (which was the outright 'best' weapon in 5th edition when the codex came out), it cost you an absolute minimum of 175pts. Then you had to add-on another 75pts for the las/plas razorback that became the staple transport of mech-marine armies last edition. That's quite a bundle of pts sunk into getting the ability to split the unit into combat squads, just to have a meltagun zipping around!

Now look at what BA's get that same unit for;
- 5 man Troops Assault squad, who can pack a meltagun for just over 100pts!
- remove jump packs for a 'free' las/plas turret on a Fast type razorback!
- lose the ability to rapid fire, but gain a melta-pistol on their sergeant, more attacks in combat, melta bombs as an option AND can add-in specialists like Sanguinary Priests!

It's just plain unfair. BA's basically render every tactical squad in the game as being 100% irrelivent, because they do the exact same thing as a Tactical squad, but cheaper AND better! It's just outright bad games design.

Grey Hunters on the other had at least have disadvantages, as they lose out on the combat squads & combat tactics rules, have no heavy weapon option and require an Elites slot to add in a sergeant equivalent. (and if you want your squad in a transport, then you also sacrifice the 2nd special weapon slot, or else have to make do with a 1 attack power toy/fist.)
Grey Hunters are solid and borderline under-costed, but they don't completely and utterly invalidate the existance of the Tactical squad like BA Assault squads in the Troops slot do!

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Third reason was Codex Grey Knights. Now, this is a sensible subject, from which people usually argue on for 20+ pages. Main reason is the aforementioned Kaldor Draigo, who seems to be so otherworldly powerful that he can walk around in the warp, kill Greater Daemons as he passes by them, destroy entire realms such as the Gardens of Nurgle and the Inevitable City, and who apparently is completely immune to corruption of any kind. So he wanders around the Warp and slaughters anything that gets in his way, sometimes having the chance to return to the material universe in order to battle with his fellow GK against some particularly vicious Daemon, only to be sucked into the Warp again. Some say he is the ultimate Gary Stu, while others, such as I, think he is ok as a concept, but that some of the stuff he apparently has done (Read: carve the name of his master into Mortarion's heart) is exaggerated and unrealistic even by 40k standards. Another much discussed topic in the Codex is the Bloodtide insurrection, where the Grey Knights slaughter innocent Sisters of Battle in order to use their blood as a more effective warding against the magical tide of blood. Some have stated that the GK shouldn't need protection like that, for they should be incorruptible as such. Others have even gone as far as to blame Matt Ward from being a misogynist, an argument that is ridiculous at best. He also enstablished fluff according to which even Grey Knights are corruptible by Chaos, and the fallen ones are called Khornate Knights. This reversed the previous assumpion that they could not be corrupted, an assumpion which had been around for over ten years of canon. In his defense one can say that the previous versions didn't exactly mention they couldn't be corrupted, merely that none of them had never been corrupted as of yet. Overall, he remade the Daemon Hunters into a very small, elite army, which can be devastating against Psykers and Daemons and which is unbelievably competitive. The Codex was slightly overpowered to be honest, and the fluff wasn't so good either. This was his worst book, and a key reason for his hate.

As much as people moan on and on about the GK's backstory, it's still the actual rules of the book that drive people up the wall.

If BA's are 'Codex Marines +1', then GK's have easily become 'Blood Angels +10!'

GK's had the absolute best of everything for over a year in 5th edition;
- Best mech thanks to Fortitude outright cancelling 66% of all glancing hits & 33% of all penetrating hits.
- Best shooting due to storm bolters, psycannons & S8 twin-linked autocannons, which could also be mixed in alongside cheap & spammable meltas for next to no pts.
- Best outright assault capability thanks to force sticks on everyone and abilities like clensing flame hard-countering every single horde unit in the game.
- Best hard-counter to deep striking units. A single 10 man squad auto-wins against an entire army for feth's sake! (castle in a corner, send your strikes/interceptors forwards, spread out the full 2" and now Daemons are forced to deploy at least 30" away from your army = why bother playing at all?!)
- Best deathstar due to wound-allocation abuses.

GK's are the closest 40k has come to the "7th ed Daemons" fiasco since 2nd edition Eldar... GK's nearly broke the game, and yes, 6th edition has balanced them somewhat, but they're still a top contender and still have outright rediculous hard-counters to multiple armies.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:His other works, such as C:Sisters of Battle, C:Chaos Daemons and C:Necrons have not caused as much criticism as the ones I described in detail. There were major balance issues with C:Sisters of Battle, which he wrote with Cruddace and which made the army very far from being competitive. But overall, the other books have faced generally positive critique, even from some of his haters. All in all, the man writes Codices which are very balanced against each other, but sometimes his fluff is a bit weird. When Matt Ward writes a book, rest assured it will be very competitive and versatile, but be prepared for major changes in the fluff of the army in question.

Necrons are outright rude in 6th right now. Now, alot of the fault lies with no one outside IG having ready access to good anti-flyer resources, but still, Necrons overall have transitioned remarkably well into 6th.
They eat vehicles for breakfest, making every mech player cry. They have ready access to easy TEQ counters in combat. MSS's are probably the game's best anti-character gear, really hurting your opponent's IC's.

Also, Ward DID NOT! write Codex: Chaos Daemons! (that was Alessio who wrote that particular codex)
No, Mr.Ward penned the absolute crap-shoot 'Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos'. The book that completely and utterly ruined an entire edition of Fantasy! So much so, that the game boiled down to, 'do you play daemons or DEs? If no, don't bother!'


Yes, he writes books that are balanced against his other works for the most part. HOWEVER! His books are notoriously OTT/broken against any book he didn't write, outside of a couple exceptions.
O&G's for example in 7th were crap, because he hates greenskins and didn't want to do that project. Meanwhile, IG & SW's hung with BA's & GK's due to those books having undercosted and easily spammable units themselves.

I just want to comment on this part here.

His other works, such as C:Sisters of Battle, C:Chaos Daemons and C:Necrons have not caused as much criticism as the ones I described in detail. There were major balance issues with C:Sisters of Battle, which he wrote with Cruddace and which made the army very far from being competitive. But overall, the other books have faced generally positive critique, even from some of his haters. All in all, the man writes Codices which are very balanced against each other, but sometimes his fluff is a bit weird. When Matt Ward writes a book, rest assured it will be very competitive and versatile, but be prepared for major changes in the fluff of the army in question.

The sisters of battle codex is what it currently is because two authors worked on it. How two authors can work on a book and then it only deserve a white dwarf entry is beyond me. But there are two things that made the sisters book "not so bad" the first is that matt wasn't allowed to touch the fluff. The white dwarf sisters book being a bare bones project has no new fluff. Everything in it had already been established previously. This means they only thing these two authors were actually writing is the rules. Most of which the update barely changed. Most of our changes are units that were taken away from us and given to grey knights instead. The only thing that was "new" was our incredibly broken matt ward invention conclaves. Which he basically just copy pasted out of one of his other books.

MW didn't write the chaos daemons book for 40k, he wrote the fantasy version which single handedly destroyed the game. That leaves the only other part in here. Necrons. You must not have been around the internet when the book was released. The entire month it was released there was nothing but people screaming about how terrible the new necron fluff is. He in a single swoop killed the necron gods, changed their purpose, rewrote their backstory, elimated their creations, and altered their theme. It would be like if the new chaos book ahriman killed the 4 chaos gods, is actually a loyalist, never needed the black library, and all rubric marines are chatter boxes.

Now it was already an amazing book using the 5th edition rules. Now it is arguably the best book in the entire game. So to summarize the newest book Mr.Ward has created is both massively complained about in both fluff and rules. Personally I think the rules complaints are over the top. Necrons aren't THAT broken, many armies are just too old and without allies do not have the toys 6th edition has introduced that are needed to fight them. I wish GW would realize they need to have two people per book on every book. They have an entire department who's entire purpose is to create fluff and stories but they refuse to use any BL author to write that fluff for the codex. If the rules writers just wrote rules and the fluff guys were allowed to write fluff GW would be putting out much better books. Ward is actually one of their best rules writers they have ever had.

He's one of the best rules writers they've ever had when his book literally ruined an entire edition of WFB? Or had a trio of near gamebreaker codex for 40k? (Exceptions of the 'Crons what with NO ONE having readily available anti-air. A $70 FW kit does not count as readily available anti-air)

To sum up on the SoB codex. We lost about 1/3 of our list options, lost most of our special characters. and our Immolators took a nasty nerf bat to the face. And with the loss of Inquisitors we lost Land Raiders as transport options so we don't have.... well any heavy armor to speak of. Things could have been a lot worse (especially if Ward wrote the fluff) but SoB still took a solid couple kicks to the face. The only positive thing of note is that Repentia got a little better, Celestine is brutal in close combat and thanks to 6E we essentially got inducted troops back as allies so we can at least have a little armor support.

destroy entire realms such as the Gardens of Nurgle and the Inevitable City,

He burned a small jungle in the gardens of nurgle and a GATE OF THE INEVITABLE CITY. He smashed the gate down onto the head of the lord of change that was tempting him.

He did not destroy the entire realm of either!