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Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





Los Angeles

38 out of 40 appearance points, hell Ill take it. That puts me at 88th over all and 3rd best appearance out of 144. Yes please, we'll have to revamp some painting stuff for next year.


Thanks to everyone I played and the TO's. It was a great event.

All my work is done using StyleX, Professional Model Tools
http://www.stylexhobby.com

My 1850 pt. Ork army: Big Boss Badonk-a-Donk and 'da Dakka Dudez
Eye of Terror San Diego Tournament: Best Painted
Game Empire Pasadena RTT : Best Painted x 4
Bay Area Open: 2nd Best Presentation
Anime Expo '14: Best Presentation/Hobbyist
Feast of Blades Qualifier: Best Presentation(Perfect Score)
 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





Tucson AZ

driving from tucson az. to northern cali was a ride but I would like to thank everyone who made this event fun and and awsome i will come back anytime and hopefully next year i can play. i would also like to thank all the people who made my job judging all the army paint scores easy thank you very much for the most part it was very easy and fun even tho there was a couple......yea you kno those guys.

 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Alan Bajramovic and Lyzz Foster in the finals of the BAO 2013. Lyzz and her Daemons (5th ed book) vs. Alan’s Imperial Guard and Space Wolves. 1750pts, for all the marbles, both players undefeated!



   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Tucson, Arizona

After watching the video I came down to the conclusion that she must have had super hot dice the entire tournament. Causing 17 wounds out of 21 shots and making 10 out of 11 saves on the pink horrors. I remember playing against her in the team tournament and it seemed that way when we played cause I like to crunch the numbers in my head when dice are being thrown and I took note on a lot of above average occurences. I would be very curious also how many times a mishap happened. Back to the drawing boards with all you daemon players as the new codex has changed quite a lot of things.

-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

In my game her dice were on fire too.

I spread warp quake across the entire board and she only had a small corner to land in due to vangard strike. She hit on 5 out of 6 deep strikes.

Her dice were so good that when she did a fly-over attack with her screamers she did one hit less than maximum and I said "Well, at least you did not get everything to hit"


 
   
Made in is
Dakka Veteran






Classy guys. Classy.


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





MI

I'd like to know what Liz's thought process was when deciding to go first, as it was her choice. It doesn't make any sense to me, for three reasons:

A) Daemons almost always want to go second. Going first as a Daemon player gives your opponent an extra turn of shooting against your army, whereas if your opponent goes first, all they have to gain is a small amount of positioning.

The only time I would go first, as a Daemon player, is against Grey Knights, so as to not allow them the chance to get Warp Quake up and running. Also, if I noticed that my opponent made some terrible mistakes while deploying, I would try to steal the initiative so that I could take advantage of it without allowing them the chance to fix their mistakes.

Obviously, Alan was not playing Grey Knights.

B) This same concept can be applied to drop pod armies. Against drop pod armies, you want to go second in order to give yourself an extra turn of shooting. Moreso, with Daemons, if a drop pod army has to go first against you, they're essentially forced to guess where best to position themselves, nullifying any mobility advantage the pods would otherwise grant them.

However, in objective missions, there is the possibility that a drop pod army can block you off from the objectives before you have a chance to get there. This could potentially be a concern, as Liz would have had to waste a round of flamers/screamers taking out non-threatening drop pods, though it is quite hard to actually pull off.

C) On an objective mission, you almost ALWAYS want to go second if you feel your army has enough resiliency to make it out of the first turn with a functioning army. Being able to grab an objective on the last turn, without giving your opponent the chance to respond, is absolutely priceless in a mission where the only two victory conditions are both objective based.

This is the big one, and is almost unforgiveable considering my first two points.

-----

Not to take anything away from Liz, you can't make it undefeated through seven rounds in a swiss style tournament featuring many of the countries top players without being a heck of a player. I just don't understand this particular decision.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/06 03:58:28


//11thCompanyGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], Bracket Champion ||
//MichiganGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-1], 4th Place, Best Xenos ||
//Adepticon '13, 40k Finals :: [6-2], 10th Place ||
//BAO '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], 18th Place ||

[hippos eat people for fun and games] 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

 hippesthippo wrote:
I'd like to know what Liz's thought process was when deciding to go first, as it was her choice. It doesn't make any sense to me, for three reasons:

A) Daemons almost always want to go second. Going first as a Daemon player gives your opponent an extra turn of shooting against your army, whereas if your opponent goes first, all they have to gain is a small amount of positioning.

The only time I would go first, as a Daemon player, is against Grey Knights, so as to not allow them the chance to get Warp Quake up and running. Also, if I noticed that my opponent made some terrible mistakes while deploying, I would try to steal the initiative so that I could take advantage of it without allowing them the chance to fix their mistakes.

Obviously, Alan was not playing Grey Knights.

B) This same concept can be applied to drop pod armies. Against drop pod armies, you want to go second in order to give yourself an extra turn of shooting. Moreso, with Daemons, if a drop pod army has to go first against you, they're essentially forced to guess where best to position themselves, nullifying any mobility advantage the pods would otherwise grant them.

However, in objective missions, there is the possibility that a drop pod army can block you off from the objectives before you have a chance to get there. This could potentially be a concern, as Liz would have had to waste a round of flamers/screamers taking out non-threatening drop pods, though it is quite hard to actually pull off.

C) On an objective mission, you almost ALWAYS want to go second if you feel your army has enough resiliency to make it out of the first turn with a functioning army. Being able to grab an objective on the last turn, without giving your opponent the chance to respond, is absolutely priceless in a mission where the only two victory conditions are both objective based.

This is the big one, and is almost unforgiveable considering my first two points.

-----

Not to take anything away from Liz, you can't make it undefeated through seven rounds in a swiss style tournament featuring many of the countries top players without being a heck of a player. I just don't understand this particular decision.


Well, she doesn't post here to my knowledge, so its unlikely you'll get any direct answer.

My guess would be the simple issue of the opponent performing area denial with Drop Pod units. This army could have done some pretty nasty area denial with first turn because the firebase blob could have spread out and then the pods can come in leaving a gap in the middle of the board between them and the firebase where any DS there would be risky (surrounded on all sides), which would have really pushed her deployment way out onto the fringes far away from the firebase (which she obviously wanted to be able to get to.

Its certainly unconventional, but she has been playing Daemons for years now so she probably recognizes the situations where table space denial is a worse of a threat than the opponent's firepower and I guess she deemed this to be one of those times.

I know there have been a few times playing Daemons where I thought there was no logical reason to go first only to see my opponent fan out and cover so much of the board on the 1st turn that it essentially costs me the game when a few units either end up mishapping or come down so far out of position they never really play a meaningful part in the game.




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Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





MI

Hmm.. That makes sense.

//11thCompanyGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], Bracket Champion ||
//MichiganGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-1], 4th Place, Best Xenos ||
//Adepticon '13, 40k Finals :: [6-2], 10th Place ||
//BAO '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], 18th Place ||

[hippos eat people for fun and games] 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Inquisitor_Malice wrote:
 schadenfreude wrote:
I didn't have to model my flyer at a 22.5 degree down angle to reduce it's minimum range from about 12" to about 3" while maintaining no penalty to it's maximum range


So in other words, you didn't have to model for your advantage to maximize your firing capability.


Yeah, it sounds like there are two types of people: People who used/abused the ruling and took full advantage, and people who got screwed by it.

The simple fact that competitive players have the attitude of "I didn't have to model my flyer at a 22.5 degree down angle to reduce it's minimum range from about 12" to about 3" while maintaining no penalty to it's maximum range" is awfully telling why we have arguments in the first place and who this ruling catered to. People argue because they are purposefully trying to play the rule wrong or MFA. A simple enforcement of the rules handles cheaters or people who don't know the rules much easier than letting them get their way.

I hope this rule doesn't make it to anything on the east coast.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

nkelsch wrote:
Yeah, it sounds like there are two types of people: People who used/abused the ruling and took full advantage, and people who got screwed by it.

The simple fact that competitive players have the attitude of "I didn't have to model my flyer at a 22.5 degree down angle to reduce it's minimum range from about 12" to about 3" while maintaining no penalty to it's maximum range" is awfully telling why we have arguments in the first place and who this ruling catered to. People argue because they are purposefully trying to play the rule wrong or MFA. A simple enforcement of the rules handles cheaters or people who don't know the rules much easier than letting them get their way.

I hope this rule doesn't make it to anything on the east coast.
It'd be nice if we could discuss this without imparting motives to either side of the discussion, or trying to divide the entire 40k playerbase into "us" and "them," with lots of negative attributes associated with "them."

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior



Colorado

i have played Lyzz many many time in Sacramento and played her 6th Round of BAO. She has changed her philosophy of playing Daemons to being very aggressive. She used to play rather passively. I and other players have talked with her and she has heeded some advice and changed her game accordingly.

I agree with her choice to go first. Alan had all of his weaker back field units in the open and ready to be destroyed. if she had gone second, alan could have podded in front of the ADL or created some sort of defensive perimeter aroudn the ADL forceing Lyzz to DS otuside where she wanted to.

Also, by going first, Alan didnt have 30 marines on the table. she put him in a defensive position on the get go. he had to play defensively rather than offensively podding in and being able to absorb all of her firepower.

Lastly, i am sure she wanted to get those Sabres down so her Bloodthirster could come in and just smash things around. Obviously that didnt happen.

I think she played it right and obviously took care of business.

7th Edition Tournament Record:

15-2

War in the Mountain GT: Best Overall, 6-0 Dark Eldar

Bugeater GT: 4th, Tournament Runner Up, 5-1 Dark Eldar

Wargamescon: 7th, Best Dark Eldar. 4-1

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 yakface wrote:

Well, she doesn't post here to my knowledge, so its unlikely you'll get any direct answer.

My guess would be the simple issue of the opponent performing area denial with Drop Pod units. This army could have done some pretty nasty area denial with first turn because the firebase blob could have spread out and then the pods can come in leaving a gap in the middle of the board between them and the firebase where any DS there would be risky (surrounded on all sides), which would have really pushed her deployment way out onto the fringes far away from the firebase (which she obviously wanted to be able to get to.

Its certainly unconventional, but she has been playing Daemons for years now so she probably recognizes the situations where table space denial is a worse of a threat than the opponent's firepower and I guess she deemed this to be one of those times.

I know there have been a few times playing Daemons where I thought there was no logical reason to go first only to see my opponent fan out and cover so much of the board on the 1st turn that it essentially costs me the game when a few units either end up mishapping or come down so far out of position they never really play a meaningful part in the game.




She posts on Frontline's website (as Daemonette), though probably not very frequently.


If I was the daemon player in this game, I'd have gone 2nd.

- How far can the IG blob squad fan out? And why leave the safety of the ADL? No, they are going to stay put.

- You've got flamers and screamers and a flying monstrous creature. You've got a long, long reach.

- Why let the drop pods get the alpha-strike on your units? It's better to let them come on down and have no target. Or, depending on where they land (i.e. if they land in your deployment zone for linebreaker), you can actually avoid them completely or go deal with them later.

- And all the other advantages of a daemon player going 2nd.


Honestly, I think she was just a little over-cautious initially, probably because this was the final table and her opponent was very good. But IMO, she didn't really have to worry about area denial.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

You can't argue with that level of success. : )

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



Sacramento

Many people are curious why I took first turn.

I took first turn for many different reasons. Primarily it was to throw Alan of his game.

Initially when I came up to the table and we exchange lists, Alan mentioned that he knew what I was going to do and how I was going to play.

I took first turn because I knew he would not expect it. Not only did this help him think I was a silly woman and didn't know what I was doing, it help him underestimate me.

Another reason I took first turn is because Alan is an aggressive player. I've played many games, When an aggressive player is attacked by another aggressive player it is difficult to change playstyle to a defensive. I've found that many of my opponents will try to recover but it is already too late or too difficult to change.

I wanted to Alan to react to me, not the other way around.

Getting into logistics, I wanted first turn to destroy the playpen, ADL. More specifically the S. Platforms. I also planned 2 feast on those guards men and hide in my 3 + cover ruins. (in the battle report we did not tell the people what are warlord traits were. I got conqueror of cities.: stealth and move thrugh cover in ruins.)

I understand that I had to take the other round of shooting, but I knew my 4 + invulnerable and 3 + cover saves would get me through the round. ( unfortunately I didn't do enough results to the Griffins to get first blood, but cut the losses don't dwell on the past. he couldnt win if he had nothing left.)

I had no doubt that I could get objectives, I also had no doubt that I would kill his troops. and defend my own.

Sometimes you have to do unconventional stategies. Don't always think inside a box.
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

And there you go. Thanks, Daemonette!

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Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Huge Hierodule






North Bay, CA

But I like the box Congrats on an awesome win at what sounded like a great event. I may have to come out next year with my two little minions to watch.

   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






Yeah, my dad keeps asking t come down to tournaments with me to see my hobby, he would have gone to watch m in the doubles but he had work.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






North of Chicago, IL USA

Congrats on the win!


Forgeworld Download Page <-- Here there be cool stuff! DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

Very smart woman!

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Made in is
Dakka Veteran






Daemonette wrote:
Many people are curious why I took first turn.

I took first turn for many different reasons. Primarily it was to throw Alan of his game.

Initially when I came up to the table and we exchange lists, Alan mentioned that he knew what I was going to do and how I was going to play.

I took first turn because I knew he would not expect it. Not only did this help him think I was a silly woman and didn't know what I was doing, it help him underestimate me.

Another reason I took first turn is because Alan is an aggressive player. I've played many games, When an aggressive player is attacked by another aggressive player it is difficult to change playstyle to a defensive. I've found that many of my opponents will try to recover but it is already too late or too difficult to change.

I wanted to Alan to react to me, not the other way around.

Getting into logistics, I wanted first turn to destroy the playpen, ADL. More specifically the S. Platforms. I also planned 2 feast on those guards men and hide in my 3 + cover ruins. (in the battle report we did not tell the people what are warlord traits were. I got conqueror of cities.: stealth and move thrugh cover in ruins.)

I understand that I had to take the other round of shooting, but I knew my 4 + invulnerable and 3 + cover saves would get me through the round. ( unfortunately I didn't do enough results to the Griffins to get first blood, but cut the losses don't dwell on the past. he couldnt win if he had nothing left.)

I had no doubt that I could get objectives, I also had no doubt that I would kill his troops. and defend my own.

Sometimes you have to do unconventional stategies. Don't always think inside a box.


Grats on the win!


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Whew! The store is starting to feel normal again and we're back to business as usual!

So, it was a fun time! We have plenty of room for growth and improvement, but everyone I talked to had fun, and those that did have critiques offered up constructive criticism. Can't ask for much more than that.

As for Lyzz's dice? Hey, sometimes you're just hot! Alan rolled her dice for a round in the finals (very nice of Lyzz to allow that) and he threw nothing but 1's and 2's! haha, so no monkey business going on there. It was just her day to win, she played well against some VERY good players (hell, she beat Blackmoor's Grey Knights with Warp Quake going second, that is crazy!).

So congratz to her! Kicked ass, took names, and walked as the first winner of the Belt of Russ!

And a big shout out to Derek Wiswell who won the Fantasy singles with Ogres! LD2 represented as a club in a big way.

I am still burning though my insanely inflated email inbox right now, so bear with me if you shot me a question.

Thanks so much to everyone who came, helped, had fun, encouraged us, etc. that is why we do this! It was super fun.

I will be posting up all the prizes and winner here as I forgot to say what some of the people won during the awards ceremony, doh! I was just so frazzled at that point that I forgot. Sorry, we will ship everyone their prizes and such. Also, if you didn't get your T-Shirt, just shoot us an email at: orders@frontlinegaming.org and we will get it to you.

Big shout to Caleb Wissenbeck, who won the Crystal Bursh qualifier and got a free plane ticket to Adepticon!

He tied for best appearance with Israel Sanchez (both got perfect scores) so we went to sports as the first tie breaker and they both had perfect sports, we then went to Battle Points as the third tie breaker and Israel got him there, winning best appearance! Both Tau armies, both amazing. Well done, guys!

So much fun! I am still collecting all my thoughts and such and will write a full review on the event. We give ourselves a solid B on the event, not great due to logistical errors, but not bad, either. We will only improve from here.

Oh, and a big shout to yoDisisRay and FleshTearers who helped set up, and to FleshTearer for doing the paint judging for 40K! that was a huge task, thanks so much! Oh and yoDisisRay, sorry you didn't have fun man, that sucks. Hopefully you will have more fun at DuleCon. Oh and BTW, the Colossus isn't a FW unit, it is right out of the IG Dex.

Big thanks to HippestHippo and Whigwam for coming out and helping so much with breakdown. You guys helped a ton! We were happy to buy you guys some drinks for helping!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 23:40:45


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

 Reecius wrote:
We give ourselves a solid B on the event, not great due to logistical errors, but not bad, either. We will only improve from here.


I wish I could score it that high, but I can’t

The logistical problems where a major issue.

I know you will bounce back and make sure that they will not happen again. I do like your events (even though I do not like forgeworld), so I was disapointed.

BAO Issues

Most of these issues were cause by being very short staffed:
Started late
No judges
No checking army lists.
Wait to turn in scores
Finished late (this was especially a bad one. A lot of time people come to these events not to win, but to have fun games and to socialize with people they only see at major GTs. We did not get out until 10:30pm Sat)

Solution:
Next time do not count on volunteers who do not have any skin in the game. You need to give a few people a discount on their tickets if they help set up and break breakdown. Also have a staff that you can depend on. You might need to give some guys some store credit and have a professional staff.


Then there is the Venue:
Barn (Loud, concrete floors, not near a hotel)
Questionable neighborhood
Hard to reach
No food
Bad hotels in the area
No hotel to rest

Solution:
Move to a Hotel. You take it for granted when you are at a hotel how nice it is to go up to your room to relax, but when you are off-site like the Barn is, you are car pooling and you are trapped until your buddies finish their games.


Logistics:
No Clock that the hall can see.

Solution:
A projector that everyone can see would be good so we can see the time.

No visible judges

Solution:
You need to give the staff brightly colored staff T-shirts. Otherwise there is no way to tell who was a judge.

No aisles

Solution:
You need to have an aisle that is twice as wide as all of the others so people can move up and see the pairings, and move with armies and display tables. It was difficult moving around especially when everyone was playing their games.

Not enough time

Solution:
More time for rounds. This is a 6th edition issue but a lot of people were not finishing their games. You can't tell who the true winner of a game is if it only goes 3 turns.


 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






Yeah, My family was worried about me going near antioch high-school. The concrete floors cause problems with models and dice, often traveling 10-20 feet when falling, I'm lucky i made it out with all my missle pod.
If you guys do choose the Antioch fair grounds again, think of putting up pointed signs that say "BAO this way" so many people got confused on where to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackmoor wrote:


No visible judges

Solution:
You need to give the staff brightly colored staff T-shirts. Otherwise there is no way to tell who was a judge.


I say have the judges wear powdered wigs and robes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 00:46:16


5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Appreciate all the input.

I have been fighting to get points down to 1500, but there is huge push back against it. Everyone wants more toys. The problem is, 6th just flat out takes too long.

We ran Comikaze and DuleCon at 1500pts with 2 hour 15 minute rounds, worked great.

If we add even 15 minutes to rounds though, it adds an hour to the day and we would still be getting out atfter 10pm.

Realistically, 1500 is the right size for a tournament, but folks get upset when they can't bring all their stuff.

I am really concerned about Adepticon. 1850 and player placed terrain is going to be CRAZY. I don't see many games finishing.

   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






It is true that 1500 pretty much only lets you bring one big toy. 1850 allows atleast two.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

 Reecius wrote:
Appreciate all the input.

I have been fighting to get points down to 1500, but there is huge push back against it. Everyone wants more toys. The problem is, 6th just flat out takes too long.

We ran Comikaze and DuleCon at 1500pts with 2 hour 15 minute rounds, worked great.

If we add even 15 minutes to rounds though, it adds an hour to the day and we would still be getting out atfter 10pm.

Realistically, 1500 is the right size for a tournament, but folks get upset when they can't bring all their stuff.

I am really concerned about Adepticon. 1850 and player placed terrain is going to be CRAZY. I don't see many games finishing.


And kids always want candy before bed and want to stay up until 2am.

I think sometimes you just have to tell people they can't get what they want. You're committed to having a 140+ event with a single clear winner, and that means 7 rounds. I assume you can't realistically have people play longer games (and most people don't want that either), so that really just leaves lowering point values.

I say, so be it. People will bitch, but oh well.

Did you have anything on the scoresheets about whether players finished the game to its natural conclusion or not? Because I still can't believe more events aren't regularly tracking that statistic. If people are saying: 'we want to play 1,750!' and you can say: 'yeah, but 15% of games didn't play to conclusion last year' then it really comes down to a simple choice for your attendees: 'less rounds (which means less people allowed in your format), longer days (if that's even feasible for your location) or less points'.

But until that number is actually tracked, then you don't know if its a big issue, or not really a big issue.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

The problem is that most tournament organizers only hold about one event a year, and they are all treating it as BAU. They do not realize that 6th edition takes a lot more time than 5th, and they are not adjusting their points or their times to compensate for this.


Oh, and one more thing...

People could not see the table numbers when everyone has their display board covering those plastic numbers that you had. You need to have those metal holders that stand the numbers up so everyone can see them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 04:02:15



 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






I think 1850 and 2:15 per round is perfect. I used to be a 2000 guy, but I admit 6th meant drooping the points a bit. 1500 feels a bit too small to me, but then it could curb some spam.


 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver



On the back of a hog.

I understand the winner's list was mostly screamers/flamers but what were the other top lists like?
   
 
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