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Glocknall wrote:
@Hulksmash

Well if NOVA rules it the other way then the entire psychic phase breaks down when you have a psyker in a squad. POTW, Psyker rule conference, etc...If you rule like NOVA then nothing bad happens and life goes on fine. Occam's Razor on this is pretty strong. So IMO NOVA is pretty darn correct. I see you point there really isn't a RAW, but RAW is a bad metric when dealing with GW rules.

It's also how ETC is ruling it, and many others. I'm not sure where the "world is doing it differently!" commentary is coming from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Seer Councils are no longer all that strong; asymmetrical mission types (Maelstrom, Mission Catalog, etc.) and the rise of "all score again" pretty much kicked them in the jimmies. They still are nigh-on-invincible and wreak havoc on what they hit, but they pay too much of a cost in terms of the % of the army invested in it in what will become a much more MSU centric environment.

Hulksmash wrote:@Glocknall

Actually Nova's ruling is the wrong one. So is the other ruling. There is no RAW on it. It's literally just a rule decision that needs to be made by TO's

Glocknall wrote:@Hulksmash

Well if NOVA rules it the other way then the entire psychic phase breaks down when you have a psyker in a squad. POTW, Psyker rule conference, etc...If you rule like NOVA then nothing bad happens and life goes on fine. Occam's Razor on this is pretty strong. So IMO NOVA is pretty darn correct. I see you point there really isn't a RAW, but RAW is a bad metric when dealing with GW rules.

MVBrandt wrote:

Glocknall wrote:
@Hulksmash

Well if NOVA rules it the other way then the entire psychic phase breaks down when you have a psyker in a squad. POTW, Psyker rule conference, etc...If you rule like NOVA then nothing bad happens and life goes on fine. Occam's Razor on this is pretty strong. So IMO NOVA is pretty darn correct. I see you point there really isn't a RAW, but RAW is a bad metric when dealing with GW rules.

It's also how ETC is ruling it, and many others. I'm not sure where the "world is doing it differently!" commentary is coming from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Seer Councils are no longer all that strong; asymmetrical mission types (Maelstrom, Mission Catalog, etc.) and the rise of "all score again" pretty much kicked them in the jimmies. They still are nigh-on-invincible and wreak havoc on what they hit, but they pay too much of a cost in terms of the % of the army invested in it in what will become a much more MSU centric environment.

Quoted for so much truth.

It's definitely the most elegant solution and simply works without breaking more things. Which IMO is the best solution in most cases for other problems ie CCBs and IC, etc.

I think parts of the community, myself included, got caught up at the release of 7th as a potential counter for ScreamerStars, BeastStars, and SeerStars, thinking that limited to one attempt per unit was a necessary and intentional nerf when in truth it wasn't necessary. Clumsy clumsy use of the word Unit and a knee jerk reaction.

Another example why having the "trendsetters" of competitive 40k talking to each other and making fairly uniform and intelligent decisions is good for the game. Now, if GW would just publish the FAQs that you guys come up with, we'd be off and running.

I'm curious what the logic is behind making daemons summoned by a Portalglyph part of the detachment, but daemons summoned by a psychic power not part of the detachment? What about daemons summoned by the Warp Storm table?

skarsol wrote:
I'm curious what the logic is behind making daemons summoned by a Portalglyph part of the detachment, but daemons summoned by a psychic power not part of the detachment? What about daemons summoned by the Warp Storm table?

That was a controversial one. A lot of our FAQ work came in conjunction with the ETC, and on these subjects we couldn't clarify a precise solution on "treated exactly like a normal unit of its type" and the same with regard to Tervigon spawning.

The one that was more clear was Conjured units, especially in situations (that I think are often not thought of) where non-Daemons summon in Daemons. There was (and still is) ongoing discussion about whether Portalglyph summoned units are part of a Detachment at all. Summoned daemons are very clearly not when you break out the RAW.

Tervigons were fairly clear as well: A unit spawned by a Tervigon is identical in every way to a Termagant unit chosen from the Troops section of the army list, and is treated as such for all mission special rules.

So I guess the Warp Storm 12 would match with the Portalglyph then?

I don't understand the purpose of this one, what is it clarifying? Is there anyone out there who thinks they can get duplicate powers?

A Psyker who has already opted to take the Primaris Power by forgoing one of his random rolls, cannot then gain Psychic Focus for that discipline and must roll at least one of his remaining powers on a different Discipline.

And what's the rationale behind this one? The book says you lose Psychic Focus if you have any powers that are from a different discipline, and Chaos Primarises are definitely from a discipline.

Chaos / Chaos Daemon units that obtain the Primaris power from their chosen discipline for free may still gain the Primaris from another discipline due to Psychic Focus if they only GENERATE powers from that specific tree during psychic power generation.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I don't understand the purpose of this one, what is it clarifying? Is there anyone out there who thinks they can get duplicate powers?

A Psyker who has already opted to take the Primaris Power by forgoing one of his random rolls, cannot then gain Psychic Focus for that discipline and must roll at least one of his remaining powers on a different Discipline.

And what's the rationale behind this one? The book says you lose Psychic Focus if you have any powers that are from a different discipline, and Chaos Primarises are definitely from a discipline.

Chaos / Chaos Daemon units that obtain the Primaris power from their chosen discipline for free may still gain the Primaris from another discipline due to Psychic Focus if they only GENERATE powers from that specific tree during psychic power generation.

The first one is fixing an issue where the rulebook says that you get psychic focus if you roll on the same table, but cannot get the primaris twice. So forcing a roll on another table gets around the issue. That said, it doesn't happen often.

As for the Chaos Focus issue, it is that the BRB says, if you generate all your powers from the same discipline you get psychic focus. Chaos focus is not generated, . Then it says if you gain another power DURING the game, you lose psychic focus. But you get Chaos Focus before the game....so it is not a clear issue at all.

Brendan beat me to it.

As an update to hotel rooms - there are less than 40 rooms left in the block; you can and will lose out on the rate we negotiated (which took a lot of hard bargaining, tell you what!) if you don't snag 'em now. This applies especially to slackers who have already registered and just keep forgetting to snag a hotel room.

You know who you are. I'm just like you 9 times out of 10

can somebody direct me to NOVA and ETC faq's please, i would like to study what solutions you brıng.

Pizzaguardian you can view the NOVA Open FAQs at the NOVA OPEN website http://www.novaopen.com/?page_id=1283

I would also recommend reading Mike Brandt's website http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/ where he posts some of this thoughts

BOOKED. Hurrah! And successfully integrated with a proper holiday!

So, I'll be in DC from the Thursday until the Monday - just playing the 40k GT this year.

In addition, I'll be in the Bay Area the week before from Aug 20-23 with my NOVA army if anyone wants some practice/pickup games. I thought I'd try and make it up to Frontline gaming at some point, but other than that I have no plans. I'm playing CSM so you'll probably win.

Then, from the Aug 23-28 I'm on holiday with friends driving down the coast to LA - if anyone has any non-gaming recommendations for what to do/where to stop, let me know. We want big trees and beaches.

Started a recommendation thread so as not to derail this one - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/603756.page

For Nova, will O'vesa be allowed to join a unit containing ICs?

Do beast packs/stars benefit from "power from pain"?

Common wisdom and previous FAQs say no, but I know some of your attendees like Team Stomping Grounds are playing that they get it.

Budzerker wrote:
Do beast packs/stars benefit from "power from pain"?

Common wisdom and previous FAQs say no, but I know some of your attendees like Team Stomping Grounds are playing that they get it.

They're playing that the whole star of models benefit from pfp? That's a negatory, ghost rider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sold a fair number of FLG gaming Mats already. Hotel rooms running thin.

MVBrandt wrote:


They're playing that the whole star of models benefit from pfp? That's a negatory, ghost rider.

According to a recent a batrep they posted anyway.

Glad that won't be a thing...

Question regarding Tau:

The FAQ says:
"Marker Lights may only benefit shots fired against the unit the Markers were on (you may not, for instance, expend 2 Marker Lights to Ignore Cover on other units fired at using rules such as Target Lock)"

I think I know what you're trying to get at here, but I think the real situation is more complicated.
Your ruling covers this situation:
Target has 2 markerlight tokens. Tau unit consisting of 1 Bodyguard and 1 Commander with Targetlock fires at the target, expending 2 markerlight tokens for Ignores Cover; the Commander users Target Lock to fire at a second unit. The rules in the Tau Codex are clear here: the Commander does not get to benefit from Ignores Cover, as scour (and pinpoint) only work for each MODELS firing at the marked unit.

However, here is a more complicated and abusable situation:
Target X has 2 markerlight tokens. Target Y has no markerlight tokens. Tau unit consists of Battlesuit with Missile Pod, Drone Controller and Target lock and 2 marker drones. The 'unit' fires at target Y with the battlesuit splitting fire to target X. He uses the 2 markerlight tokens to boost his ballistic skill to 5 and fires his missiles. The Drones, using the Drone Controller, now use the controller's modified Ballistic Skill of 5 when firing at Y. This allows for a 'markerlight cascade' whereby an initial marker kicks off by getting 2 markerlight hits and then multiple units of 3 Crisis Suits + 2 Marker Drones use those hits to decimate a unit and score 2 more high-reliability markerlight hits on a second unit without 'wasting' any markerlights if the first target is destroyed.

An argument against this set up is found in the markerlight rules: "Immediately before a UNIT from C:TE shoots at a TARGET that has one ore more markerlight counters..." combined with the Target Lock rules: "A model with a target lock can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit".
A strict interpretation of this rule would suggest that while a UNIT can use markerlights against its (single) declared target, a model using a target lock cannot expend markerlight tokens when firing at a different target than the rest of his unit. However, I think that ruling is sufficiently fiddly and unintuitive that it should not be pursued - if you wanted to prevent the markerlight cascade, a specific ruling should be made for that case.



And another question for Tau:
In what order should shots from models with Target Locks be resolved? Can Target Locks be used to fire at a unit that was inside of a transport that the rest of the unit has destroyed? What if multiple models in the units have target locks - do we resolve shooting from one model before declaring the target of the next? Can this be used for a second model to shoot at the same target as the first model?
A sensible ruling I think would be that: All models must declare targets before any shots are resolved, and other restrictions follow as per Split Fire.

Lots of Tau rules questions, excellent! Will reply ASAP.

As an aside, we just eclipsed last year's 40K pace, getting down to only about 70 spots left. As a note - last year we sold out the event, and had to put 15 people on wait list going into it. Drops left us alright for getting everyone in, but that's not something you should count on (nor does it feel very good to have to plan travel and hotels based upon being on a wait list!).

Every other event we are hosting is well ahead of last year's pace! Fantasy and Warmachine/Hordes in particular have already had to increase their spots due to sell-out, and are now at max POSSIBLE capacity, with less than 20 spots apiece left each (of 64).

MVBrandt wrote:
Lots of Tau rules questions, excellent! Will reply ASAP.

As an aside, we just eclipsed last year's 40K pace, getting down to only about 70 spots left. As a note - last year we sold out the event, and had to put 15 people on wait list going into it. Drops left us alright for getting everyone in, but that's not something you should count on (nor does it feel very good to have to plan travel and hotels based upon being on a wait list!).

Every other event we are hosting is well ahead of last year's pace! Fantasy and Warmachine/Hordes in particular have already had to increase their spots due to sell-out, and are now at max POSSIBLE capacity, with less than 20 spots apiece left each (of 64).

That is awesome to hear. I guess fewer people have been scared off the 7th edition tournament scene as the internet would lead us to believe.

Couple of questions about the mission pack after playing a couple of them yesterday...

Is linebreaker remaining unchanged in the Mission Packs?

Also, is determining 1st Turn following 7th or 6th Edition?

Fortification Deployment, before armies?

Also, how are terrain rules going to be used? Forest, etc.

 Zagman wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Lots of Tau rules questions, excellent! Will reply ASAP.

As an aside, we just eclipsed last year's 40K pace, getting down to only about 70 spots left. As a note - last year we sold out the event, and had to put 15 people on wait list going into it. Drops left us alright for getting everyone in, but that's not something you should count on (nor does it feel very good to have to plan travel and hotels based upon being on a wait list!).

Every other event we are hosting is well ahead of last year's pace! Fantasy and Warmachine/Hordes in particular have already had to increase their spots due to sell-out, and are now at max POSSIBLE capacity, with less than 20 spots apiece left each (of 64).

That is awesome to hear. I guess fewer people have been scared off the 7th edition tournament scene as the internet would lead us to believe.

Couple of questions about the mission pack after playing a couple of them yesterday...

Is linebreaker remaining unchanged in the Mission Packs?

Also, is determining 1st Turn following 7th or 6th Edition?

Fortification Deployment, before armies?

Also, how are terrain rules going to be used? Forest, etc.

I think that there IS some 7th edition scare - we were WAY ahead of pace from last year for some time, and 7th edition leaking rumor-wise killed registration for some time; it simply picked back up again. I would anticipate a similar drop-off in net attendance after noshows as we experienced the year 6th Edition dropped on us ... so something like 185-225 attendees after drops for the 40K GT instead of 237 after drops from 271 counting waitlist last year. The year before 6th dropped, we had 204 after drops, and then 6th dropped and we had 181. That said, it certainly is still going to be a mega epic GT, and one of the largest on the planet, so rumors of 40k's demise are ... perhaps .... overstated. That said, it would also not surprise me if the uptick in registrations continued toward another sell-out year.

Determining first turn will more than likely resemble 4th-6th Editions, and not 7th, as determining who goes first in 7th represents one of the parts of the game that GW did not appear to playtest in any capacity, and is far too one-sided for whoever wins the roll.

Linebreaker will be amended to reflect the proper terms for 7th, that's an oversight.

Fortification deployment will also be amended to reflect the proper terms for 7th, and is also an oversight.

Terrain rules will be - Scatter Terrain (2 of 8 pieces per board) will be Battlescapes with the Dangerous trait changed to Difficult. Hills (2 of the 8 pieces) will likely just be pieces of terrain that confer a 5+ cover save if obscuring the target (so not difficult, no longer "area). Ruins (4 of the 8 pieces, including the 2 large LOS blockers) will be ruins (inclusive of the base).

MVBrandt wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Lots of Tau rules questions, excellent! Will reply ASAP.

As an aside, we just eclipsed last year's 40K pace, getting down to only about 70 spots left. As a note - last year we sold out the event, and had to put 15 people on wait list going into it. Drops left us alright for getting everyone in, but that's not something you should count on (nor does it feel very good to have to plan travel and hotels based upon being on a wait list!).

Every other event we are hosting is well ahead of last year's pace! Fantasy and Warmachine/Hordes in particular have already had to increase their spots due to sell-out, and are now at max POSSIBLE capacity, with less than 20 spots apiece left each (of 64).

That is awesome to hear. I guess fewer people have been scared off the 7th edition tournament scene as the internet would lead us to believe.

Couple of questions about the mission pack after playing a couple of them yesterday...

Is linebreaker remaining unchanged in the Mission Packs?

Also, is determining 1st Turn following 7th or 6th Edition?

Fortification Deployment, before armies?

Also, how are terrain rules going to be used? Forest, etc.

I think that there IS some 7th edition scare - we were WAY ahead of pace from last year for some time, and 7th edition leaking rumor-wise killed registration for some time; it simply picked back up again. I would anticipate a similar drop-off in net attendance after noshows as we experienced the year 6th Edition dropped on us ... so something like 185-225 attendees after drops for the 40K GT instead of 237 after drops from 271 counting waitlist last year. The year before 6th dropped, we had 204 after drops, and then 6th dropped and we had 181. That said, it certainly is still going to be a mega epic GT, and one of the largest on the planet, so rumors of 40k's demise are ... perhaps .... overstated. That said, it would also not surprise me if the uptick in registrations continued toward another sell-out year.

Determining first turn will more than likely resemble 4th-6th Editions, and not 7th, as determining who goes first in 7th represents one of the parts of the game that GW did not appear to playtest in any capacity, and is far too one-sided for whoever wins the roll.

Linebreaker will be amended to reflect the proper terms for 7th, that's an oversight.

Fortification deployment will also be amended to reflect the proper terms for 7th, and is also an oversight.

Terrain rules will be - Scatter Terrain (2 of 8 pieces per board) will be Battlescapes with the Dangerous trait changed to Difficult. Hills (2 of the 8 pieces) will likely just be pieces of terrain that confer a 5+ cover save if obscuring the target (so not difficult, no longer "area). Ruins (4 of the 8 pieces, including the 2 large LOS blockers) will be ruins (inclusive of the base).

Looks good, I figured as much about Linebreaker and 1st Turn.

Sounds pretty terrain heavy with lots of Ruin's Saves which is good, LOS blocking terrain is great.


Also, about the FAQ, are you conferring with Reece? If possible, coming out with a Joint FAQ would be tremendous for tournaments in the US, it would give an amazing base for other TOs to work off of and would go along ways towards creating a unified tournament circuit. The more solidified and coherent Tournaments become, the more power and flexibility it gives towards the future when things need to be fixed, modified, etc and IMO would be beneficial moving towards the future.

With the Space Wolf codex potentially dropping in July will it be legal for NOVA? Even if it is the end of the month there would still be a month buffer. Of course this all revolves around a July release, if it doesn't land i July I would assume the answer is an auto negative.

Depends on timing of course, but is certainly possible. Too much we're tracking right now to give it TOO Much attention until we know for sure what the status of the SW book is.

Just to confirm one last time before I commit to building an insane amount of models Mike. For the two detachments in my army it can look like this:

Detachment 1: Combined Arms Detachment
Detachment 2: Ork Horde Detachment

(ex. I could run 5 Ork HQ's, 5 Ork Troops, 6 Ork Fast Attack, and 6 Ork Heavy Support or 2 Daemon HQ, 4 Daemon Troops, 3 Daemon Heavy Support, 3 Ork HQ, 3 Ork Troop, 3 Ork Fast Attack, 3 Ork Heavy Support)

Just making sure it's 100% crystal clear before I start my snowflake army

NM I messed up.

Looking forward to seeing that come together, Hulk!

TLDR - This post tells you to reserve your room at the Hyatt now, using the link in this post, or risk the block filling up (which it is about to do) and having to pay $100/night more (from $89/night block rate to $189/night out-block rate at present)

ALL ALERT

ROOM NIGHTS - YOU NEED TO RESERVE YOUR HYATT ROOMS

We just cleared by a landslide (I guess system was waiting to update?) the # of room nights we hit last year, and we are

51 DAYS FROM NOVA

There are less than 30 rooms left in the block, after which you'll have to pay $119+ a night instead of the $89/night we've negotiated for you. Seriously, I know from experience that a lot of you keep putting off reserving your hotel room. Even if you're putting it off because you aren't sure you can attend, it is free to reserve and free to cancel unless you wait until 24 hours prior.

Go reserve your hotel rooms now, OK? Seriously, this is one of those things that's SUPER EXPENSIVE at most Cons, and these are Cons that aren't really near major cities. We went through heckfire to get these rates at a hotel that's in DC on the metro less than an 11 metro-minute ride to the Washington Monument. I really don't want to see guys who've been planning for months to go end up paying 3 figures more over their stay b/c they slacked on nights.

The block gets bigger next year by contract, but I can't do anything about it this year when it runs out (And thereafter, the hotel itself may start running out of rooms altogether):

https://aws.passkey.com/g/21381174


EDIT / UPDATE - THE OUT OF BLOCK RATE IS PRESENTLY AT $189/NIGHT WHEN LOOKING AT WED-MON RATES (this is me checking basic rates via hyatt website right this second, so that could always change). Seriously, just get your darn room before the block is gone.

 RiTides wrote:
Looking forward to seeing that come together, Hulk!

Well it can't come together until Mike confirms I can do it!!!!!! ::nudge nudge::

Basically don't want to start building a bunch of stuff for a snowflake army until I know I can use it

Yeah Brad, you're good to go with that. I've sent a run by to the usual suspects within the circle of organizers to make sure I'm not crazy, of course. I'm not sure you'll be a snowflake, though!

I think it's something that will be common; it will struggle to do well, I think, but MSU is all the rage now if you're playing 7th edition with proper 7th reflective missions, and that's doable either way.

Update on the NOVA Open Charitable Foundation suite.

Last year we rented out the Presidential Suite; that's not available quite the same way, so we have the Ambassador suites instead (which are just as badass due to us doubling them and turning the bedrooms into social rooms by removing the beds ... gotta love how awesome the Hyatt is).

In the suite all weekend, there'll be a constant series of free seminars and talks given by hobby / industry experts, including Justin McCoy from Secret Weapon Miniatures, Gutierre from Corvus Belli / Infinity, Justin Gibbs from Wyrd Miniatures / Malifaux, Bryant Dunbar from Grex Airbrush, and many more. Subjects range from insider sneak peaks of upcoming things for Wyrd and Corvus to sit-down chats about what all it takes to get into working within the industry, running tournaments, and more.

These are all free, aren't part of sponsorship packages, and are just done for a chance for attendees to get some close one-on-one type time over a good drink with some pretty big names in the hobby.

Speaking of which ... it is also all for Charity.

There'll be a full menu of custom craft cocktails - I'm working on these along with some genuine bev-pros and the folks from our Monday Night Malifaux and Mixology crew, and we'll be whipping up a really stellar menu. There's also the very real likelihood of draft beer this year, in addition to the very wide selection of craft bottles we had last year.

All of this booze will be available at discounted rates in the Foundation Lounge, hand-crafted for your delight while you enjoy the company of fellow hobbyists and experts. Every dime spent goes to the NOVA Open Charitable Foundation in support of the charities they sponsor (I say they because the Foundation is a formal 501(c)(3) charitable organization separate from the NOVA Open for operational and conflict of interest reasons, and to make sure we stay laser focused on the NOVA Open's founding desire to raise money for good causes no matter what).

Our super loaded schedule already includes some of the many free lounge talks that will be going on, and more are certainly possible. The Lounge opens at 1PM Thursday, and 11AM Friday/Saturday/Sunday, with 1AM last call each night (except Sunday, when it will close in the early afternoon).

Finally, the bevs will all be cheaper than you can reasonably get elsewhere (in the $3-5 range for most options), despite being really high quality!

Drink and chat with some really cool dudes all weekend long for any NOVA attendee, with every penny going to charity. Can't beat it.

FINALLY

Go buy some NOVA Open Charitable Foundation raffle tickets for the Battle for Macragge - Blood and Honor army. It includes this incredible Knight Titan painted by award winning artist John Stiening:

http://vimeo.com/100257819

Snowflake is about the look, not the actual list bro. Thanks though

 Hulksmash wrote:
Snowflake is about the look, not the actual list bro. Thanks though

THAT'S what I've been trying to tell you with regard to fixation on double CAD or not