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I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

I think BB characters can offer a lot and vice versa.

Also Hereticus Inquisitor with psyocculum really benefits any heavy shooting unit with a significant amount of psykers out there.

Fair enough, apologies to all for the sidetrack.

@Enigwolf, I have been thinking about Coteaz a bit and wondering if BB allies might be a place to put him. Generally, in 6e, I'd take prescience every time, stick him in a rhino with a squad with a pair of psycannons (or on a Quad Gun) and be done with it.

Now that you can't cast blessings within a vehicle, I'm wondering what to do. I've been toying with the idea of taking a SW ally with a rune priest and a couple of sets of GH in pods and sticking him in one of those pods. Rather than prescience, I'm thinking that telepathy might be the way to go, because he'll be forward deployed.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other thing I found myself wishing for the other day was a tanking, assault oriented IC with non terminator 2+ armour to go with purifiers. I can do it with a SW rune priest, but he's only got 2 wounds.

Any recommendations?

 wuestenfux wrote:

Tyfus wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Does the centurion star have hit and run? That would make more sense. Otherwise you'd be in trouble if you got tarpitted I reckon?

Nope don't have it since you need ultramarine chapter to get Tigurius.

If you get gate of infinity you dont need hit and run. You can gate out of close combat.

Really out of close combat. I don't have the rulebook with me.

I remember they FAQed it once in a former edition such that gating out of cc was no longer possible. But this was a few years ago.

There's no limitation now. The old faq is gone. In the latest FAQ for ETC for 7.ed it's faqed that you can gate out of cc, but not gate if you have gone to ground or units that were pinned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quickjager wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:


Does the wording of GS allow you to scout a Taurox?

Eeeh under previous edition rules where GK didn't have any Battle Brothers I would have said no, because buffs cannot affect allies. But this edition I would say yes because by the wording "under his command" would infer he's the warlord of the army, and the Imperium is Battle bros with anyone else in the Imperium. That it further states the specific units that it CANNOT effect, which doesn't include allies.

But like I said the make or break line is "under his command"

The GW GK FAQ 7ed says that grand strategy only works on "units in this Detachment with the Grey Knights Faction"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkCron wrote:

The other thing I found myself wishing for the other day was a tanking, assault oriented IC with non terminator 2+ armour to go with purifiers. I can do it with a SW rune priest, but he's only got 2 wounds.

Any recommendations?

Ally in iron hand or white scar, and get the chapter master with bike, arificier armour, shield eternal and power fist. The CM will either have IWD or hit and run. If you want him in a transport that don't take bikes, drop the bike.

Well, I wouldn't take any ally detachment in a GK army.
GK has all the means to deal an army at every threat range like incinerators, psycannons, and autocannons.
Moreover, there are cheap units for scoring, giving warp charges, and dakka (Psybacks).

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I wouldn't take any ally detachment in a GK army.
GK has all the means to deal an army at every threat range like incinerators, psycannons, and autocannons.
Moreover, there are cheap units for scoring, giving warp charges, and dakka (Psybacks).

GK can generate a tremendous number of warp charges. GK can field a lot of psykers. But can it use them as optimally as an allied psyker could? Well, no, because Tigirius is so gosh darn ridiculous. He's almost guaranteed to get whatever psychic power he wants. Wouldn't it be worth it to field him and the tiniest space marine troop choice you can take just to get an almost certain Invisibility to use with your GK forces? I would say yes.

 Leth wrote:
I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

Something tells me that Coteaz in a Centurion Devastator squad is going to ruin the day of anything that deepstrikes within range of his ability...

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

Something tells me that Coteaz in a Centurion Devastator squad is going to ruin the day of anything that deepstrikes within range of his ability...

So far, I've found that this works more as an 'exclusion zone' which enemies will actively avoid deep striking in to. It's a great idea to combine coteaz with a shooty, less cc oriented unit for that reason. Although the 'I've been expecting you' rule only gives you a 12" bubble from the model and not the unit, which is a shame. But yeah, with deep striking being more common, and after the loss of warp quake, coteaz is just so ridiculously underpriced. Expect that to change, people! (His bubble will burst)

 pocketcanoe wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

Something tells me that Coteaz in a Centurion Devastator squad is going to ruin the day of anything that deepstrikes within range of his ability...

So far, I've found that this works more as an 'exclusion zone' which enemies will actively avoid deep striking in to. It's a great idea to combine coteaz with a shooty, less cc oriented unit for that reason. Although the 'I've been expecting you' rule only gives you a 12" bubble from the model and not the unit, which is a shame. But yeah, with deep striking being more common, and after the loss of warp quake, coteaz is just so ridiculously underpriced. Expect that to change, people! (His bubble will burst)

In the past, I've actually found this to be deadly effective against droppod armies. They have the choice to drop in front of your gunline, or in and get shot by his squad. Considering that my Coteaz squad before packed 3 Jokaero and 3 Plascannon Servitors, it was rather painful.

Possibly pair coteaz up with a 4 psycannon purgation squad? Camping within running distance of a backfield objective marker? Kind of asking to be assaulted though.

The problem with Purgations is they are in the same slot as Knights and Dreads and can have their role filled by other units in the army.

I'm wondering what to do with Coteaz in a list. If we run MSU and he's just in a transport that seems like a waste (he can only use witchfires and his special I've been expecting you doesn't work from inside a transport). If he's out of a transport, he needs to be with something tough. Granted I am no tactical genius, but the most competitive thing I can think of, which was already mentioned, is putting him with Tigirius and some Centurions. Nothing our GK codex has can put out as much hurt as Centurions can in shooting (and nothing in our GK codex almost guarantees Invisibility like Tigirius does).

Paladins are pretty tough, but their shooting output isn't nearly as scary. What to do what to do...

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

Something tells me that Coteaz in a Centurion Devastator squad is going to ruin the day of anything that deepstrikes within range of his ability...

This is exactly what I am doing with my Imperial Fist allies and it has worked wonderfully. I have said it a good amount of times, Space Marine allies being Battle Brothers now is more than enough to make up for the few holes that the GK suffer from. My Centurions have TL Lascannon and Missile Launchers and not Grav Cannons but that is to help with punching through armor and to take advantage of Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.

Hey guys, been keeping tab's on this thread, and i am relatively new to GK'S. I have read in this thread quite a few time's about "Shunting" just wanted some clarification on what that is exactly? Thanks!

 urbanevil wrote:
Hey guys, been keeping tab's on this thread, and i am relatively new to GK'S. I have read in this thread quite a few time's about "Shunting" just wanted some clarification on what that is exactly? Thanks!

Dreadknights and Interceptors have personal teleporters which add 'jump' to their unit type (see BRB) in addition to allowing a once-per-game 'shunt' move of 30".

Edit:- DKs don't automatically come with their PT, you have to pay. Interceptors do.

That's another thing I struggle with! Using Interceptors versus using some allies with drop pods. I know shunting and a drop pod is not exactly the same, but I often wonder if having drop pod allies is better than taking interceptors. Both can do an 'alpha strike.' The pods can even do it better with a bunch of combi-weapon marines. Or for about the same level of alpha-strike-yness as Interceptors, I can pod in a unit of Grey Hunters, which ends up being A LOT cheaper than purchasing the unit of Interceptors (almost 200 points versus almost 300 points!). So I'm torn.

It's less good by far...effective 36"-54" S5 stormbolters are insane.

 ductvader wrote:
It's less good by far...effective 36"-54" S5 stormbolters are insane.

That's 300 points for 10 marines though. Who die out in the open just like other 15 point marines. 30 points per marine is a lot to pay for marines. Now maybe my tactics with them aren't ideal, heck forget maybe, they aren't, but still, they're pretty much double the cost of other marines.

Super Newb wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
It's less good by far...effective 36"-54" S5 stormbolters are insane.

That's 300 points for 10 marines though. Who die out in the open just like other 15 point marines. 30 points per marine is a lot to pay for marines. Now maybe my tactics with them aren't ideal, heck forget maybe, they aren't, but still, they're pretty much double the cost of other marines.

And their purpose is completely different than that of normal marines. they're there to continue to pepper everything with bolter fire while remaining mobile. Drop marines are pretty much decided stranded once they land. Foot Marines in general are designed to hold a position. GKs are meant to press forward, press hard, and continue to win even when you have half as many models. The thing about PAGK is that in order to play them really well, you have to be an intelligent player. It doesn't just come down to points.

EDIT: I also commonly run mine with 2 psycannons, which is just glorious.

Dreadknight question.

What is the benefit of taking a great sword over 2 doom fists. Im planning on adding a DK to my list that also includes a Knight Errant.

This was the intended loadout: Dread Knight - w/ teleporter, doomfists, incinerator

Does a Greatsword make this unit better ? and how

 ductvader wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
It's less good by far...effective 36"-54" S5 stormbolters are insane.

That's 300 points for 10 marines though. Who die out in the open just like other 15 point marines. 30 points per marine is a lot to pay for marines. Now maybe my tactics with them aren't ideal, heck forget maybe, they aren't, but still, they're pretty much double the cost of other marines.

And their purpose is completely different than that of normal marines. they're there to continue to pepper everything with bolter fire while remaining mobile. Drop marines are pretty much decided stranded once they land. Foot Marines in general are designed to hold a position. GKs are meant to press forward, press hard, and continue to win even when you have half as many models. The thing about PAGK is that in order to play them really well, you have to be an intelligent player. It doesn't just come down to points.

at your hopefully accidental implication that I am a moron. Anyway, their purpose in a 'shunt-punch' type of list is the same as a drop pods unit's purpose. Doing damage right away. An alpha strike and then an annoyance in turns following. Continuing to "win even when you have half as many models" is a noble goal, but doesn't sound like efficient list building to me. Your 30 point marines, who have no transport, die, unless they go completely out of LOS, they die just as easily as 15-18 point marines do. That sounds like shooting oneself in the foot to me. 10 Grey Hunters, with two meltaguns and a drop pod is 185 points for example. Are the Interceptors 150+% as good as them (115 points more)? I don't think so really. Heck with that pod you have two OS units too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zedsdead wrote:
Dreadknight question.

What is the benefit of taking a great sword over 2 doom fists. Im planning on adding a DK to my list that also includes a Knight Errant.

This was the intended loadout: Dread Knight - w/ teleporter, doomfists, incinerator

Does a Greatsword make this unit better ? and how

It makes it better by allowing rerolls. But it isn't IMHO worth the points. You're paying 235 for your DK already, adding the sword will make it that much more expensive...

I'm new at 40k, but I've tried greatswords in both my games of 7th, so here's my thoughts:

Greatsword lets you reroll failed to hit and to wound/ AP rolls.

At my store, opinion is split on whether greatsword gives you str 10 or str 6. There's a (to my mind inconclusive) YMDC thread on this, so I won't attempt to answer it here. I'll go over both cases.

If str 10, it is an obvious increase in accuracy. Vs vehicles, you generally destroy them in a round.

If str 6, it is advantageous when fighting T3 or using force (rerollable ID attacks), or when coupled with hammerhand vs t4 (rerollable ID attacks).

Apologies if I'm totally in error here.

Envihon wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

Something tells me that Coteaz in a Centurion Devastator squad is going to ruin the day of anything that deepstrikes within range of his ability...

This is exactly what I am doing with my Imperial Fist allies and it has worked wonderfully. I have said it a good amount of times, Space Marine allies being Battle Brothers now is more than enough to make up for the few holes that the GK suffer from. My Centurions have TL Lascannon and Missile Launchers and not Grav Cannons but that is to help with punching through armor and to take advantage of Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.

Hmm. Grav cannons work great those high-toughness, 2+ save units thought. What was the thought process for MLs over grav?

kooshlord wrote:I'm new at 40k, but I've tried greatswords in both my games of 7th, so here's my thoughts:

Greatsword lets you reroll failed to hit and to wound/ AP rolls.

At my store, opinion is split on whether greatsword gives you str 10 or str 6. There's a (to my mind inconclusive) YMDC thread on this, so I won't attempt to answer it here. I'll go over both cases.

If str 10, it is an obvious increase in accuracy. Vs vehicles, you generally destroy them in a round.

If str 6, it is advantageous when fighting T3 or using force (rerollable ID attacks), or when coupled with hammerhand vs t4 (rerollable ID attacks).

Apologies if I'm totally in error here.

I thought this was settled ages ago that it's Str 10?

The Greatsword's abilities are passive, so you technically use your nemesis doomfist to fight but gain the passive reroll effects.

Just like a malleus inquisitor with passive effects on 2 daemonblades.

However, the pack +incinerator is my favorite pts efficient loadout.

Super Newb wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
It's less good by far...effective 36"-54" S5 stormbolters are insane.

That's 300 points for 10 marines though. Who die out in the open just like other 15 point marines. 30 points per marine is a lot to pay for marines. Now maybe my tactics with them aren't ideal, heck forget maybe, they aren't, but still, they're pretty much double the cost of other marines.

You're also packing 10 Force Weapons and 2 psychic levels (combat squad them), and S5 shooting over S4, twice as many shots at 12-24", and hammer of wraith.
I like running them with either 2 psycannons and a daemon hammer (leaving the hammer in one squad, and the cannons in the other), or just 2 hammers (1 for each combat squad).
10 guys with 3+ save I find survives as well as 5 guys with a 2+ save (you're more survivable vs AP1/AP2, and just as survivable vs AP4 or worse).
Another option, if terrain is right, is a beta strike. If you can advance hidden for a turn, the shunt can give you shots on rear armor.

Force + 1 daemon hammer will scare the piss out of a wraithknight/riptide, and you've got the speed to chase them down.

 Enigwolf wrote:
I thought this was settled ages ago that it's Str 10?

 ductvader wrote:
The Greatsword's abilities are passive, so you technically use your nemesis doomfist to fight but gain the passive reroll effects.

Just like a malleus inquisitor with passive effects on 2 daemonblades.

However, the pack +incinerator is my favorite pts efficient loadout.

In order to avoid bogging down the tactics thread with a redundant rules argument, the YMDC link is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/598859.page

I ask my opponents about it beforehand. I've had different opponents interpret it different ways. I've found the upgrade useful under both interpretations, given that you have access to both force and hammerhand. Points efficient, perhaps not. If something needs to die RIGHT NOW, I have trouble finding a better solution for the cost, given I'd field a dreadknight anyway.

kooshlord wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
I thought this was settled ages ago that it's Str 10?

 ductvader wrote:
The Greatsword's abilities are passive, so you technically use your nemesis doomfist to fight but gain the passive reroll effects.

Just like a malleus inquisitor with passive effects on 2 daemonblades.

However, the pack +incinerator is my favorite pts efficient loadout.

In order to avoid bogging down the tactics thread with a redundant rules argument, the YMDC link is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/598859.page

I ask my opponents about it beforehand. I've had different opponents interpret it different ways. I've found the upgrade useful under both interpretations, given that you have access to both force and hammerhand. Points efficient, perhaps not. If something needs to die RIGHT NOW, I have trouble finding a better solution for the cost, given I'd field a dreadknight anyway.

One guy disagreeing with the rest of the thread doesnt make it 'inconclusive'

I am running mine with just greatsword right now. Still a pretty big threat, I can always deep strike him if I need to get across the board and is a great counter assault element for my allied blob.

Much more points efficient and makes it so I can work in more shooting in the form of psyfulman dreads and a storm raven.

 Enigwolf wrote:

Envihon wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am runninc\g coteaz in my centurions, I also am potentially throwing my librarian in my henchmen squads depending on powers in zee storm raven.

Something tells me that Coteaz in a Centurion Devastator squad is going to ruin the day of anything that deepstrikes within range of his ability...

This is exactly what I am doing with my Imperial Fist allies and it has worked wonderfully. I have said it a good amount of times, Space Marine allies being Battle Brothers now is more than enough to make up for the few holes that the GK suffer from. My Centurions have TL Lascannon and Missile Launchers and not Grav Cannons but that is to help with punching through armor and to take advantage of Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.

Hmm. Grav cannons work great those high-toughness, 2+ save units thought. What was the thought process for MLs over grav?

kooshlord wrote:I'm new at 40k, but I've tried greatswords in both my games of 7th, so here's my thoughts:

Greatsword lets you reroll failed to hit and to wound/ AP rolls.

At my store, opinion is split on whether greatsword gives you str 10 or str 6. There's a (to my mind inconclusive) YMDC thread on this, so I won't attempt to answer it here. I'll go over both cases.

If str 10, it is an obvious increase in accuracy. Vs vehicles, you generally destroy them in a round.

If str 6, it is advantageous when fighting T3 or using force (rerollable ID attacks), or when coupled with hammerhand vs t4 (rerollable ID attacks).

Apologies if I'm totally in error here.

I thought this was settled ages ago that it's Str 10?

The purpose of taking the Lascannons over the Grav weapons is that the Lascannons take advantage of the Tank Hunter Chapter Tactic of the Imperial Fists while the Grav weapons don't. It is the same logic as taking the Missile Launchers over the Hurricane Bolters. Also, taking TL Lascannons and Missile Launchers gives me a lot more range than the Grav Cannon and Hurricane Bolters which only have 24" range, letting me set down my Centurions with Coteaz, and/or the Imperial Fist Librarian to rain anti-armor hell on my opponent from across the battlefield. Pair this with Shroud or Invisibility in cover and those Centurions earn those points.

And it is str 10

Greatsword is a must take for me most of the time, it just basically means whatever I throw it at always dies (unless its a hive tyrant that doesn't miss any of its attacks and I make no saves like last weekend...)

Also, it looks amazing.

I love it and the incinerator on my DKs (all 3 of them)

 ductvader wrote:
The Greatsword's abilities are passive, so you technically use your nemesis doomfist to fight but gain the passive reroll effects.
.

how do you arrive at that conclusion when it says "you REPLACE your nemisis doomfist with a nemisis greatsword"?


I'm geniunley asking here as I just picked up the GK codex, and as far as I can see it's one or the other. which means it would work a bit like similer models with differnt weapons where you IIRC choose one effect or the other