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my 1850 list has 40 warriors and a ghost ark, against a lot of people i've played it makes them waste shots as they will soak a turn of shooting into a warrior unit or two and rarely kill one. I also don't own lots of tomb blades, but i also will take 12 destroyers and between the warriors and destroyers it does quite a lot

 skoffs wrote:
How do we deal with Roboute Guiliman?

Killed him 1x already, he's not Immortal. (He came back, but on the bottom of T5 and couldn't do anything)

- At T6 with 6 Wounds and FNP, it's easy enough to put him down a few.
- He's not an IC, so won't be joining any squads and can always be singled out.
- He's not a flyer, and can't ride in a Transport, so he's not incredibly mobile. Unless he is running, he shouldn't see combat till T3 if you've done it right.

** Like a few other units, Wraiths may not necessarily and answer here. His Melee attacks are S10, with a chance to D. So any failed 3i saves, will outright kill them. -1 to RP if you somehow manage to still have Spyder alive.
** I've read reports where he is somehow infiltrating. Do NOT let this happen to you. He has all of the 'Command' Traits and they're all active. He does NOT have all of the Warlord traits. Rumor mill started this one before the rules came out and it's not been squashed yet for some reason.

Klowny wrote:
How many people run warrior spam? In a decurion, how many warriors is too much? I have 40 at my disposal right now, 2 GA's, 10 immortals and 12 TB. I know it cant kill deathstars and the like, but thats a hell of a lot of gauss shots to put out. Pre-ynnari the demons were ruling the roost by the looks of it comp wise. This feels like it would do well against it? All that psychic D and big birds flapping about wont put much of a dent into a majillionty warriors.

Almost any list I make starts with 50. (20/15/15)

Warriors are the best unit we have, but not when comparing them on their own. They need to have support/combos and no other unit in our codex has as many options.
- D Weapons are really only great against multiple wound models. Yeah, it's a great way to get around RP, but there are only a handful of weapons that hit multiple models.
- Grav Spam is also blunted. Only 1/2 the hits will wound, and we get RP on top of that. Decurion grants the +1 RP AND re-roll 1's. It still hurts, but it really makes the Marine player question the recommendations of the Tactica.
- While having +1 RP from the Decurion is nice, the real benefit is having MTC and Relentless. MTC has more than made up for lack of mobility in most games. Relentless is the real killer, and it's not uncommon to soften up a unit to where Warriors can handle them in CC. Nothing like your opponent rolling up thinking he's safe, taking a ton of firepower to the face, then watch his excitement drain when you assault the survivors denying him the charge. While CC might not be the Warriors strength, they're no pushover. They need to lose combat by 3 to start to sweat being swept and opponents will often need to commit multiple units to accomplish this. Relentless gives you more control on what gets assaulted than players realize.
- Zahndrekh / Szeras are probably the two best characters. Even if you like MSU style, I'd recommend as full of a unit as you can get if you run either of these. If you haven't tried Zahndrekh switching to 'Target Priority' on Turn 2 with 3 blobs of Warriors you should really give it a shot. (I've run Zandy and 100 Warriors because of this!) Often times, it's the only Warlord trait you'll need to finish out a game. In a Decurion, switching to Fearless will turn a 20 man blob into a bigger tarpit. Watching a Death Star, Wolf Star, or for one game, a unit of Dreadnoughts that managed to survive, play 'Whack-a-Warrior' till the game ends is humorous on it's own. Most don't give Szeras enough credit, but in a CAD restricted environment, he really supports Warriors. Bubble RP+, 'Immortal Hubris' WL Trait, and a buff. Even the S5 is decent because a T8 MC will have to think about getting close.
- Triarch Stalkers are also a great way to optimize Warrior spam. Tricky to get into a Decurion effectively because of the Praetorians. In a CAD, where you can split them up it gives you some freedom to spread your forces out while putting out punishing amounts of firepower. Depending on your numbers, I've found this is where the HGC can be the better option. This way you're not tripping over the Warriors who are conveniently bubblewrapping you from Melta range, and once you've got control of the game, they can retreat to the rear objectives while your Warriors advance. Combo with Zahndrekh, and you'll never miss a shot starting on T2. **DDArks are also given a ton of flak for not being great. 2 of those can cover firelanes and force your opponent into the guns of the Warriors.
- The 'too much' depends on if you're dependent on getting a buff from IC/Warlord Traits/Stalkers or not. I've found issues running more than 4 units as the board becomes cramped and you can lose the opportunity to shoot something because you'll be out of range if your opponent decides to throw everything at one side. This is where having Monoliths can come in handy. Not a great tactic because you'd still have to start them on the board, but the option is there. You deploy first, opponent decides to approach from one side to avoid taking 1/3 of your armies shooting, Monolith brings them over anyways. Deceiver Shard 'Grand Illusion' also helps re-position Warriors to foul up your opponents plans.
- They are probably the only unit in the game that has a Dedicated Transport built specifically for them, and they're the only one that can really get some mileage out of the Nightscythe Transport capacity.

Umm so, have we heard the news from adepticon? Pretty much teasers for 8th edition.

One of the big things, the unit that charges gets to attack first, regardless of initiative.

If this is legit......holy hell praetorians just got a huuuuuge buff.

Klowny wrote:
teasers for 8th edition.
One of the big things, the unit that charges gets to attack first, regardless of initiative.
If this is legit......holy hell praetorians just got a huuuuuge buff

Jayzus, they're going to be blenders supreme.
You got a link for that info?
[edit]
never mind
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Thematic armies will be rewarded, movement value is coming back, armour save modifiers, and charging units get to strike first.

And Morale will work the same as AOS.

Holy hell! 8th Ed. Here we come!

Movement values - that's one I'm stoked about.

A lot of things will change... individual rules on the data sheets (almost has to be, if they are going to individual movement characteristics).
Flayed Ones with a different movement than Warriors and going first in assault? Heck yeah!

If true, this is a rehash of Sigmar.

Fragile wrote:
If true, this is a rehash of Sigmar.

Like always, they will bring things over. I still think that Sigmar will be the 'easy' version... 40k the middle version, and 30k being the 'elite' version of the rules.
It may be good to think about things that won't change... I'm pretty sure that characters in units isn't going to go away, for instance.

So long as they include the rules for Always Strikes First/Last, I'll be okay with bringing some of those AoS stuff over.
...
SOME.

So I don't have any Necron stuff but I was looking to put together 1850 for a friend to use.

From what I have gathered the decurion formations are quite flexible and allow you to run a lot of different lists and I was just looking to identify some of the cornerstones that make for a good list.

The two I have put together are legion, canoptek harvest, royal court - which I take to be the rather standard list with a lord star on like immortals or lychguard or something.

The other I put together was warrior spam on nightscythes, deathbringer flight and royal court to get crypteks to put with the warriors.

Not really sure which I should put together but I think I am leaning toward the flyer list. Both are decurions and I just want to make sure that I don't miss anything that is considered to be of key tactical importance but some people seem to be of the opinion that you have to almost intentionally make a bad list for necrons at their current incarnation.

Unless you have a very specific use for the extra Overlord+Lord(s)+Cryptek(s) you really shouldn't just throw a Royal Court into a Decurion build.
Being the case, it'd be almost useless in that Flyer list.
It'd be slightly useful in a list that has Lychguard... but I would much rather use those points on things that will be more useful, eg. Tomb Blades.

So for the flyer list should I just cut it entirely and dump those points into increase my warrior/tomb blade counts?

I cut the court.

Got Zandrekh, 1x5 lychguard /w hyperphase, dispersion, 3x10 warriors /w nightscythes 1x9 immortals 1x6 tomb blades /w beamer, vanes, looms and 1x3 doom scythes.

- What is Zahndrekh going to be doing?
- What is the point of those Lychguard?
- Why so many Immortals?
- Do you have any more Tomb Blades?
- The Doom Scythe formation is... kinda meh compared to the infantry based ones, but if you're going 6 flyers maybe it's not so bad.

skoffs, as always, has the right of things... You need to have a purpose for each unit or formation. For example, I like running my warriors in Ghost Arks because I love the amount of shooting that it gives me. They take the and hold the midfield while my teleport my lychstar as a backfield threat. Tesla Immortals hold backfield objectives.

Zahndrekh starts on the board with the guards as well as the doomblades.
The guards were so he doesn't get blasted off the board standing by himself. I suppose I could ditch the guard and just stand him with the immortals.

He is going to be using hyperlogical strategist to improve all my reserve rolls for the flyers. After that will depends on what else is going on, likely he will go after any opposing units on my backfield.

I took the immortals because they are required, I went above 5 because I didn't know where to put the points. So what should I do with those points? More warriors?

Only have 6 tomb blades but it wouldn't be an issue to get more.

Stick Zahndrekh with 5 Immortals. Use leftover points from the extra 4 dropped Immortals to get far superior Tomb Blades.
Lychguard don't sound necessary. Drop and put points into more Tomb Blades.
Tomb Blades Tomb Blades Tomb Blades.
Tomb Blades.

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMB BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADES

Should I make the tomb blades MSU or is it better to have a giant pile of them?
Had to get rid of a beamer on 2 since i had 10 extra points and made another warrior. 1849 now.

Nemesor Zahndrekh

11 Warriors
1 Night Scythe

10 Warriors
1 Night Scythe

10 Warriors
1 Night Scythe

5 Immortal: Gauss Blasters

5 Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer,Shieldvanes,Shadowloom

1 Tomb Blade: Twin-linked Gauss Blaster,Shieldvanes,Shadowloom
4 Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer,Shieldvanes,Shadowloom

1 Tomb Blade: Twin-linked Tesla Carabine,Shieldvanes,Shadowloom
4 Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer,Shieldvanes,Shadowloom


1 Doom Scythe
1 Doom Scythe
1 Doom Scythe

MSU Tomb Blades are best.
Three units of 5 would be good.
Don't bother with Tesla. Gauss is the best bet.
Tesla WOULD be good with the Immortals, tho, as they're gonna want to hang back.
Maybe drop that 11th Warrior and add a 6th Immortal instead, to give the unit a slight bump in survivability.

 skoffs wrote:
MSU Tomb Blades are best.
Three units of 5 would be good.
Don't bother with Tesla. Gauss is the best bet.
Tesla WOULD be good with the Immortals, tho, as they're gonna want to hang back.
Maybe drop that 11th Warrior and add a 6th Immortal instead, to give the unit a slight bump in survivability.

11 warriors + 5 immortals is better for break tests ,I think , and depending on how you actually play those Immortals, I'd say it's more worth it to go for that setup and not add any extra Immortal. I'd also recomend Tesla on them, but the difference is really negligible, so just go for what you modeled/like.

If you're going for 15 Tomb Blades, why not switch some weapons arround? Gauss Blasters are really good on them with AP4 and ignores cover. (Removes pesky marker lights with great efficiency) Maybe 2 units with Particle Beamers (since you like them so much) and 1 unit of Gauss blasters?

Particle Beamers are bad because they're small blasts.

I'm personally a fan of doing two squads of five with blasters, Scopes, and Vanes, and then a single squad of three with Tesla, Looms, and Vanes solely for objective catching.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Particle Beamers are bad because they're small blasts.

That depends on what you're facing.
It's great for blobs. Not so much for MSU-ish lists.

I like running a ration of 3:1 Gauss to Beamers.
One blast in case a few models are clumped up, then three Gauss to clean up the rest.
Has been working out nicely for me. YMMV.

Ceann wrote:
Zahndrekh starts on the board with the guards as well as the doomblades.
The guards were so he doesn't get blasted off the board standing by himself. I suppose I could ditch the guard and just stand him with the immortals.

He is going to be using hyperlogical strategist to improve all my reserve rolls for the flyers. After that will depends on what else is going on, likely he will go after any opposing units on my backfield.

I took the immortals because they are required, I went above 5 because I didn't know where to put the points. So what should I do with those points? More warriors?

Only have 6 tomb blades but it wouldn't be an issue to get more.

Unless you're really impatient to finish modeling everything, don't build anything with different options for a few months. Who knows what the next edition will bring.

 skoffs wrote:
So long as they include the rules for Always Strikes First/Last, I'll be okay with bringing some of those AoS stuff over.
...
SOME.

AoS's system is actually awesome and I'd be ok with most of it coming. I can understand them leaving out turn priority, but honestly I think 40k people would get used to it as well.

Yes, got my first game of AoS... used my Necrons as Flesh Eater Courts. Hell of a lot of fun.
Turn priority was exciting, but not breaking. IT was a bit hard remembering to do it, and it didn't cause me to win or to lose.
Rending and shooting into and out of combat was great. I can see warriors doing well with our gauss weapons and our toughness in close combat. The moral system would also be great for us.

Something tells me everyone who built their guys as Lychguard instead of Praetorians is going to be kicking themselves, come summer.

 skoffs wrote:
Something tells me everyone who built their guys as Lychguard instead of Praetorians is going to be kicking themselves, come summer.

All the reason to buy more, right?

 skoffs wrote:
Something tells me everyone who built their guys as Lychguard instead of Praetorians is going to be kicking themselves, come summer.

That's why I have both

In reality, I hope they make Lychguard into the premier bodyguards they're supposed to be. That's why I built the shields in the first play tbh.

Ceann

I would recommend your friend to try this list;

CAD

HQ
Destroyer Lord w/ Veil of Darkness, Phase Shifter, Res Orb and Staff of Light

Oirkan the Diviner

Troops

5 Immortals w/ Gauss

5 Immortals w/ Gauss

Fast Attack

3 C.Wraiths w/ coils

3 C.Wraiths w/ coils

Decurion

Reclamation Legion

Nemesor Zahndrekh

4 Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes, Nebuloscope 2 w/ Gauss and 2 w/ Particles Blaster

4 Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes, Nebuloscope 2 w/ Gauss and 2 w/ Particles Blaster

5 Immortals w/ Gauss

10 Warriors in Ghost Ark

10 Warriors in Ghost Ark

10 Warriors

Auxilliary

5 Deathmarks

that is a total of 1842 pts and has a lot of diversity.

Make Nemesor the Warlord so you can pick your Warlord traits from turn 2 on wards. I would also put him and his unit in DSR and come in turn 2 by using the Veil of Darkness..

Put all the HQs (D.Lord, Orikan, Nemesor) with the warriors and use he D.Lords Veil of Darkness to DS the whole unit and have a pretty good gun blob with a good bit of buffs. then use the blob to transport Nemesor to make the most of his abilities.

Use the GAs to move the warriors across the board and doing lots of shooting damage. Jink the GA for +1 to your save meaning its gun will be snap-shooting but, the warriors still shoot as normal. That makes them more survivable and dangerous.

use the Immortals to either hold objectives or to hold your line and prevent your opponent from flanking you and taking control of your side.

Tomb Blades are great for destroying blobs, getting objectives that are far away and getting line breaker before the game ends. The Particle Beamer is the best weapon to take for the TBs. Its a blast weapon and its strength 6. It will do a lot of damage. Then use the gauss to take away any remaining units that the blasts didn't destroy.

Use the C.Wraiths as your CC and just have them hold up anything that looks dangerous or to destroy weak and small units. Can't go wrong with 3+/3++.

Deathmarks can DS when your opponents units DS and they can also shoot during your enemies turn. They also wound on a 2+ on the 1st turn they DS, even against GMC.

Give that Destroyer Lord a Warscythe.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Give that Destroyer Lord a Warscythe.

If he is in a shooty unit what would be the point as he won't be going into CC? Orikan also has a Scythe but his roll is for 4+ RP (even against instant death) and re-rolling 1s for saves. I can use Orikan to protect my unit if it is to go into CC. Destroyer Lord is to give the unit Preferred Enemy so that its a blob of shooting doom with him included.

I suppose having 2 units with Scythes might be good for protecting the shooty unit in CC but I think staff of light will be better with its 3 strength 5 ap 3 hits.

Odrankt wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Give that Destroyer Lord a Warscythe.

If he is in a shooty unit what would be the point as he won't be going into CC? Orikan also has a Scythe but his roll is for 4+ RP (even against instant death) and re-rolling 1s for saves. I can use Orikan to protect my unit if it is to go into CC. Destroyer Lord is to give the unit Preferred Enemy so that its a blob of shooting doom with him included.

I suppose having 2 units with Scythes might be good for protecting the shooty unit in CC but I think staff of light will be better with its 3 strength 5 ap 3 hits.

Um that list has two units of Wraiths. What else is getting the most from that Preferred Enemy? The Warriors? Please.

The Destroyer Lord has melee stats, and was meant for melee. Same with the reason you see Orikan going into mostly melee deathstars (and the occasional Pylonstar).