Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/12/08 19:10:41
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
the_scotsman wrote: I mean...you're going to have trouble accomplishing much? You've got a bunch of dudes with S3 weaponry and no buffs, a bunch of tanks with hardly any guns on them, and pretty sparse anti tank.
You've certainly achieved chimera spam, but the question is why would you want to spam chimeras?
It'd probably be fine in casual games just on the fact that everything is really barebones with no upgrades meaning you just have a lot of stuff. But any list with a significant shooting alpha strike will just drop in, blow away the basilisks ASAP, and you'd be left with not much to hurt high toughness stuff. HK missiles rarely do anything in my experience.
Hmm, thought about it today really hard.
Came up with a solution - get some Genestealers for Cult Ambush and Vendetta for armor-hunting.
lord_blackfang wrote: Fellas, I got Overkill and a Battleforce on the way. Is there a point to two Broodcovens or should I move one and get more dudes?
The extra Patriarch won't get much use, but the other two can come in handy.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2017/12/09 16:16:07
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Hey guys, so after yer advice and reading the bios on pg1 I came up with a 1500pt GSC/AM list. I was just wondering if it is legal to play this list and if there is anything wrong that I need to fix as I made it on Battlescribe.
Thanks guys!
Spoiler:
Star gods (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 1500pts]
Odrankt wrote: Hey guys, so after yer advice and reading the bios on pg1 I came up with a 1500pt GSC/AM list. I was just wondering if it is legal to play this list and if there is anything wrong that I need to fix as I made it on Battlescribe.
Thanks guys!
Spoiler:
Star gods (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 1500pts]
Odrankt wrote: Hey guys, so after yer advice and reading the bios on pg1 I came up with a 1500pt GSC/AM list. I was just wondering if it is legal to play this list and if there is anything wrong that I need to fix as I made it on Battlescribe.
Thanks guys!
Spoiler:
Star gods (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 1500pts]
Goliath Rockgrinder
Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber
Dedicated Transport
Cult Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer
It is legal list but seriously? Lord of War at 1500? That's seen as dick move at my flgs.
The guy I'm playing plays AM and usually brings a LoW at 1500pts so it's only there just in case. Otherwise I have a list with 2 russe's and another unit of Genestealers incase he doesn't bring a LoW. I don't really play power list I just don't want my 1st time playing GSC to be a slaughter-fest as the guy I am playing is a pretty big power player. Only playing him as we did a draw system.
The guy I'm playing plays AM and usually brings a LoW at 1500pts so it's only there just in case. Otherwise I have a list with 2 russe's and another unit of Genestealers incase he doesn't bring a LoW. I don't really play power list I just don't want my 1st time playing GSC to be a slaughter-fest as the guy I am playing is a pretty big power player. Only playing him as we did a draw system.
If you are taking LoW to bring justice to this world against someone who brings LoW unexpectedly at 1500 points go for it, hate that kind of players that force your hand
2017/12/10 10:46:22
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
I have been flirting with the thought of an alpha strike in my mainly tyranid list.
Most tyranid lists run trygons, genestealers and some thing to remove wrapping. (Jorm or trygon deviigaunts, or a dakka flyrant.) Usuaoly the swarm lord spores inn to garante a charge.
I think a primus with abbreants looks very good as an ally. A lot damage in those hammers. The primus is effectivly the transport, and the hammers offer a lot of high damage attacks, smething nids currently do not have.
Tbh if you're facing a low, it's actually better to just bring a fairly heavy alpha strike.
8 Hammer abberants with a Primus who has the new relic and getting the night from beyond power on them deal 54 wounds on average to LOW T8/2+ stats.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/12/10 14:58:35
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.
I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/12/11 12:33:49
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
the_scotsman wrote: Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.
I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.
My calculations say the following for 8 Abberants with Hammers against T8 3+ Save.
Normal:
13.4 wounds
With might from beyond:
20 wounds
With might from beyond and Primus +1 to hit:
26.7 wounds
So unless I am mistaken they need massive support to kill a Baneblade equivalent in 1 phase.
2017/12/11 12:57:06
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
the_scotsman wrote: Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.
I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.
My calculations say the following for 8 Abberants with Hammers against T8 3+ Save.
Normal:
13.4 wounds
With might from beyond:
20 wounds
With might from beyond and Primus +1 to hit:
26.7 wounds
So unless I am mistaken they need massive support to kill a Baneblade equivalent in 1 phase.
1 psychic power and 1 HQ unit buff that they need to get in range isn’t exactly huge support, and you sound like you aren’t impressed by the ability to OHKO a baneblade. Remember you also don’t have to one shot it, crippling it is good enough
2017/12/12 09:48:41
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
the_scotsman wrote: Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.
I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.
My calculations say the following for 8 Abberants with Hammers against T8 3+ Save.
Normal:
13.4 wounds
With might from beyond:
20 wounds
With might from beyond and Primus +1 to hit:
26.7 wounds
So unless I am mistaken they need massive support to kill a Baneblade equivalent in 1 phase.
1 psychic power and 1 HQ unit buff that they need to get in range isn’t exactly huge support, and you sound like you aren’t impressed by the ability to OHKO a baneblade. Remember you also don’t have to one shot it, crippling it is good enough
You need 8 Abberants for 297 points, the primus and the magus in range. Most likely at least the Abberants and the Primus are dead after they hit the Baneblade, since they are super exposed.
Isn't it more clever to just ignore the LoW, since they don't have enough Dakka to matter against mass infantery GSC anyway?
2017/12/12 20:34:47
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Niiai wrote: How are the troop choises for cultists these days? What are they used for? Do either of the ootion offer anything for a tyranid army?
They are good in my opinion.
Neophytes:
Leader can take autogun or shotgun (really important to me), others can take 2 special weapons and 2 Heavy Mining Weapon or one heavy (which you never take - Heavy Mining Weapons are just better), they can die for your HQ choices as they have Unquestioning Loyalty. Want some anti-tank? Mining Lasers. They also have the same range as your autoguns so a win-win situation. Want to make horde player cry? Heavy Seismic Cannon (which got points decreased by whooping 7!) + Grenade Launchers (as they synergize well). The only bad choice is Heavy Stubber imo.
Acolytes:
CC heavy hitters guys. Nevermind normal Acolytes (though they are not that bad) - you want some nice special weapons. Heavy Rock Saws after point decrease is in my opinion best (basically two-handed chainfist) and you can take 2 in a 5-man squad for about 80 points. That's a steal for heavy lifting they bring. Just treat them like a missile that dies with whatever you point them at as they will be shot next turn. Demolition Charges are also an excellent choice. You take 4 in 10-man squad and blow something on turn 1. Then they are expended so they won't be targeted by your enemy allowing you to take them and bully some infantry with their rending claws. Heavy Rock Cutters are great if you know you will be against monstrous creatures like Tyranids or Daemons, but they are worse than Heavy Rock Saws now that we got points decreased. Still decent, just not good anymore in my opinion.
As for what they offer to Tyranids I don't really know. Probably some nice ranged anti-tank ability with Mining Lasers or CC Heavy hitter in form of Acolytes with Rock Saws. That's how I would use them.
2017/12/13 18:45:47
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Are neophytes and Heavy Weapons really that bad? A HWT sitting on an objective firing lascannon shots seems like a big enough threat that the opponent can't ignore. Delivering mining lasers seems hard unless you've got them in goliaths (or I guess ambushing).
2017/12/13 19:35:24
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
ajax_xaja wrote: Are neophytes and Heavy Weapons really that bad? A HWT sitting on an objective firing lascannon shots seems like a big enough threat that the opponent can't ignore. Delivering mining lasers seems hard unless you've got them in goliaths (or I guess ambushing).
They ain't bad. Just AM does them much better (their squads cost less) than GSC and we have more point efficient options in terms of Heavy Mining Weapons. I found that Heavy Mining Weapons are great if you take them in Chimeras and deliver them in their threat ranges. That and since we aren't a top tier army we need to take any advantage over AM we can get - that is getting double firepower in form of two Heavy Mining Weapons instead of one better Heavy Weapon.
But hey, that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary. I'm still at quite early stage with my GSC tactics but love them more and more with every new list I make. Not so long ago I wasn't convinced by Heavy Mining Weapons myself.
2017/12/14 13:38:09
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
I must disagree with the praise of the mining weapons. As your main asset in cult is your mad mobility your units is close to always in the move, even more so with 24 inch range mining weapons trying to find targets. With 2 mining lasers in a squad moving or coming in from ambush they deal .74 wounds together to a Leman Russ, slightly above the laser platform (0.65 in similar circumstances). This comes at a higher cost, 38 vs 30 including platform. They are significantly better thoug vs 2 wound targets such as primaris Marines, but for me this is offset by the range differences.
They main reason I rarely use either though is the terrible synergy with the rest of the army, they stack terribly with a mobile army and cult ambush. They work considerably better for a static guard army hitwise. Also, I find teams useful for guards to bring down stray wounds on enemy monster/veichles just above the deterioration bracket, after the ruses and basilisk have done their main punch. As our main punch comes in the cc phase, we need to assign the shots without knowing where 1-2 extra wounds can make a difference, lowering the utility considerably.
In another note, I wish that gw would allow us some more customisation, I’m dying to rip the bone sword of my Primus’es and the heavy stunner from my grinders
2017/12/14 15:04:10
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Gremmer wrote: I must disagree with the praise of the mining weapons. As your main asset in cult is your mad mobility your units is close to always in the move, even more so with 24 inch range mining weapons trying to find targets. With 2 mining lasers in a squad moving or coming in from ambush they deal .74 wounds together to a Leman Russ, slightly above the laser platform (0.65 in similar circumstances). This comes at a higher cost, 38 vs 30 including platform. They are significantly better thoug vs 2 wound targets such as primaris Marines, but for me this is offset by the range differences.
They main reason I rarely use either though is the terrible synergy with the rest of the army, they stack terribly with a mobile army and cult ambush. They work considerably better for a static guard army hitwise. Also, I find teams useful for guards to bring down stray wounds on enemy monster/veichles just above the deterioration bracket, after the ruses and basilisk have done their main punch. As our main punch comes in the cc phase, we need to assign the shots without knowing where 1-2 extra wounds can make a difference, lowering the utility considerably.
In another note, I wish that gw would allow us some more customisation, I’m dying to rip the bone sword of my Primus’es and the heavy stunner from my grinders
Fair points, though I play more static than you it seems. I tend to play it more like the Guard with Chimeras and AM supporting units. In those circumstances Mining Weapons shine.
You need to answer one question: why is your list better than a pure AM list? It looks like you don’t plan to ambush much, and all those cult chimaeras could be rerolling ones or ignoring -1 ap, and the cultist could take orders. the magi don’t have a lot of spells that benefit you. Why not play a Armageddon guard with those models? You have 300 p left to 2k, I would go Primus and a bunch of genestealers
2017/12/14 17:30:54
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Niiai wrote: Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.
The Psychic power gives +1S, the weapon then doubles that.
See the Designers Commentary FAQ:
Q: If a rule modifues a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?
A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.
For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength
is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.
Using this as guidance, an Aberrant under the effects of Might From Beyond using a Power Hammer fights at S12.
Base S5
+1 for the power = 6, their "current Strength characteristic" as per the FAQ Then apply x2 for the Power Hammer = 12
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/14 17:32:29
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2017/12/14 17:58:55
Subject: Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near.
Niiai wrote: Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.
The Psychic power gives +1S, the weapon then doubles that.
See the Designers Commentary FAQ:
Q: If a rule modifues a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?
A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.
For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength
is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.
Using this as guidance, an Aberrant under the effects of Might From Beyond using a Power Hammer fights at S12.
Base S5
+1 for the power = 6, their "current Strength characteristic" as per the FAQ Then apply x2 for the Power Hammer = 12
You've literally proved yourself wrong in the exact FAQ that you quoted. Apply all multiply/divide modifiers, and THEN add/subtract modifiers. They're hitting at STR 11.
Niiai wrote: Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.
The Psychic power gives +1S, the weapon then doubles that.
See the Designers Commentary FAQ:
Q: If a rule modifues a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?
A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.
For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength
is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.
Using this as guidance, an Aberrant under the effects of Might From Beyond using a Power Hammer fights at S12.
Base S5
+1 for the power = 6, their "current Strength characteristic" as per the FAQ Then apply x2 for the Power Hammer = 12
You've literally proved yourself wrong in the exact FAQ that you quoted. Apply all multiply/divide modifiers, and THEN add/subtract modifiers. They're hitting at STR 11.
Check it again, it says calculate unit buffs (might from beyond and the relic), then calculate the weapon buffs (the power hammer x2)