Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

@Da Boss: Dragon Heist has been a good read so far, but I prefer a more low fantasy lean in fantasy games, all the crazy stuff in Waterdeep is kind of a turn off for me. I may never run it. I haven't heard of either the City State of the Invincible Overlord or Prolus, Though I have heard Monte Cook mentioned many times. I'm not totally into Forgotten realms either (although I do like it overall), but it's D&D setting of choice so it gives lots of options and campaigns when first starting out. I also agree that it would be great to have something new for Undermountain.

City State is I think the first ever city supplement, and it is based heavily on Lankmar from Fritz Leiber's classic pulp fantasy series. It is a bit gonzo and sort of a lawful evil dump, but I like it.

Ptolus is just a very detailed and fully realised fantasy city of very high quality.

My problem with the Realms is the names for everything seem like just smushing random syllables together, or worse, taking a word from German and another from some Celtic language and smushing them together, which sounds really weird to my ears.

Thanks for the explanations Da Boss, and yeah Forgotten Realms does have weird names. Was German your first language? I could see something that has syllables from someones fist language but not being that language feeling intrinsically wrong to listen to.

I'm an Irishman living in Germany who grew up just over the water from Wales, so I speak Irish, English, German and I can recognise common Welsh words.

I think a lot of fantasy authors tend to raid Germanic and Celtic languages for names, which I don't mind if they are consistent with the language family. Like Circle Orboros in Hordes use a lot of Gaelic Irish words for things like "Tuath" for clans or kingdoms of Tharn for example, and that is fine by me. GW uses a lot of German words for it's stuff, since the Imperium is the Holy Roman Empire IN SPAAAACE, and that is also fine. I just find Forgotten Realms will sometimes put a german word and a celtic word together, which to me just sounds totally wrong and is kinda jarring. Either that or the words are totally made up and really hard to remember or pronounce.

One of the quirks of the Realms is it's solidly Midwest Canadian/American culturally. The central areas of the FR don't have any particular cultural markings, and the ones that do are blatant historical stand ins at the edges of the map.

So you get fantasy Egypt in the southeast, Viking islands and Celtic islands in the west, and the latter wasn't included by Ed greenwood originally, but inserted by a TSR author after they bought and published he setting. But the dales and sword coast and etc are essentially generic and lacking in any identifiable culture. There is a vaguely Arabic area in Amn and Calimsham, but the only way to know that is they have a lot of djinn. And all of Africa is jammed into the Pennisula that is Chult, with extra serpent monsters and Dinosaurs.

Even the barbarians in Icewind dale are just generic fantasy barbarians, with no real cultural trappings beyond 'hate civilization,' though that is largely Bob Salvatore's fault. Out east you've got Mongols mongoling under a Temujin figure, but that was just dropped in out of nowhere by Troy Denning to fill in the vast empty map between the standard play area and not!China, when they added Kara Tur to 2nd or 3rd edition. And have a Crusade analogue for Cormyr to go on, but without any religious or cultural trappings.

I have always had that impression, though you have expressed it much more eloquently than I ever have.

I have also had the impression that the Realms are more popular on the other side of the Atlantic. In my own experience it was never super popular in Ireland at least, other settings predominated. I wonder if the popularity is related to it being more "American" than some of the other settings. I mean, obviously Dungeons and Dragons is inherently American, as it was created by Americans, but some of the other settings have a different and to me more European flavour.

Wow Da Boss, it's cool how many languages you speak.

I don't know much about Forgotten Realms, being new to D&D, and I haven't delved into the lore, so it was helpful seeing what you and Voss had to say about the lore.

Isnt chult more south america/amazon/aztec (from the perspective of outsider/conquistadors. Not the actual cultures) then africa?

Seems like a hodge podge of both, basically anything "Jungle" themed.

 Lance845 wrote:
Isnt chult more south america/amazon/aztec (from the perspective of outsider/conquistadors. Not the actual cultures) then africa?

Nope. That's Maztica, which is across the western ocean. I didn't bother to mention it because its essentially separate (the impact is all over there) and the story basically is Conquistadors (lead by Priest of Helm, the LN god of guardians for some inexplicable reason) go there and slaughter native people (mostly Aztec-ish expies, complete with 'jaguar warriors') because reasons. Even as a teenager when that book series came out, I was really unimpressed with it.

Chult is a tiny little peninsular appendix stuck on the SW corner of the main continent. It actually got a little coverage in the 5e material (adventures/livestreams), Tomb of Annihilation.
In the Realms, if you want really dark skin, blow pipes, spears and other stereotypical cliched baggage and/or dinosaurs, you come from Chult.

Da Boss wrote:
I have also had the impression that the Realms are more popular on the other side of the Atlantic. In my own experience it was never super popular in Ireland at least, other settings predominated. I wonder if the popularity is related to it being more "American" than some of the other settings. I mean, obviously Dungeons and Dragons is inherently American, as it was created by Americans, but some of the other settings have a different and to me more European flavour.

That's pretty fair (depending on the setting). Mystara (the 'basic' D&D setting) and Greyhawk definitely had more material definitely aimed at trying to be more like Europe. Supplement books with heraldry and social order and cultural trappings (they weren't always particularly good, but there was a definite tendency toward research and trying). FR is mostly high powered wizards and obscure monsters dominating everything and while a lot of the town _maps_ are really well done (though admittedly they're done in the same style as real 19th century American maps), the cultures of a lot of places are just skipped in favor of details about what some 15th+ level character did to save or establish the town.

And a lot of the popularity of the FR comes from the Drizzt books, so you get a lot of dark elf culture, but not much else. Ed Greenwood's own novels were never quite as popular (and much weirder), and Elminster got a lot more mockery as the uber character of the setting, on the basis of how many goddesses and powerful female wizards he's slept with as an old man (and an unapologetic self-insert character for the author- he used to go to Gen Con and Origins in character).

The default setting for D&D was the American West. If you think about it, the American West was a post-apocalyptic setting. Given that up to 90% of the pre-Columbian population had been killed by disease, I find it hard to see the place and time as anything but post-apocalyptic. Also, PCs could clear, claim and settle land. This was not something from Medieval Europe, to be certain, but was characteristic of the American frontier. If you poke around, you can find these notions better expressed.

Here is an interesting start, http://initiativeone.blogspot.com/2013/05/od-setting-posts-in-pdf.html It would have been interesting to see this implied setting better developed.

Forgotten Realms, a.k.a. Ed Greenwood's *Magical Realm*, had the good fortune to be a developed campaign setting available at the time TSR was searching for a way to side-line Greyhawk after Gygax left/was thrown out of TSR. I don't much care for it.

I've seen arguments that D&D is basically Iron Age, with heroes and demigods dressed up in D&D classes, and the raiding back and forth for sacks of loot is the default that replaces the wars of late medieval/Renaissance Europe that the weapons and armor would otherwise imply. In many settings what passes for countries can't effectively muster armies that match the threats they face.

The American West doesn't do much for me, as it requires a different tech base (which isn't well represented in game), and lands for settlement, which isn't all that typical of D&D settings. When they do, it feels more Age of Exploration rather than Manifest Destiny style of things, filling in the blank spaces on the map, rather than expanding 'civilization' to the horizon.


Personally, for FR, at the time it was introduced I quite liked it. The style of the central area fit, and a lot of stuff was left to be filled in by players. As they filled things in themselves (and added increasingly tone deaf cultural expies at the fringes), my interest waned.
It wasn't nearly as bad as Dark Sun, where they introduced a new setting and then effectively destroyed the world state they had just introduced with novel and module developments in less than two years, but by late 2nd/early 3rd edition became a morass of bland and overpowered junk everywhere. Especially 20+ level wizards and weirdly shaped epic monsters, like the sharn (who had three heads and three arms with three hands each) and phaerimm (basically wizards shaped like giant wind-socks) fighting secret wars with magic deserts and whatnot.

The Time of Troubles didn't help either. Why they felt they needed to justify the rules changes from one edition to the next in universe is beyond me.

Curse you Voss! I had to go look up Expies. The search led to TvTropes.

The original game very much posited an American Frontier setting, with a Medieval (Dark Ages) skin. Players were expected to claim and settle lands when they reached higher levels. Many pages are devoted to this in the original brown book, "Underworld and Wilderness Adventures" and even more in the AD&D (1e) DMG. We know that the original group at TSR had a thing for the West. Ever played "Boot Hill" or heard of Murlynd? The setting worked fairly well for grafting a home brewed world onto it.

Has anyone seeen or purchased this, https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Arcana-Special-Ephemera/dp/0399582754/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0399582754&pd_rd_r=c400780e-da6f-11e8-9665-8df9d4ca2866&pd_rd_w=8JIY1&pd_rd_wg=CLrMB&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=6725dbd6-9917-451d-beba-16af7874e407&pf_rd_r=E6VNA9N2WGS20081EV4Y&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=E6VNA9N2WGS20081EV4Y It has the original tournament version of Tomb of Horrors in it, the one from 1975. I admit, I am fairly curious about the module. Not sure I am $75 curious though.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Curse you Voss! I had to go look up Expies. The search led to TvTropes.

The original game very much posited an American Frontier setting, with a Medieval (Dark Ages) skin. Players were expected to claim and settle lands when they reached higher levels. Many pages are devoted to this in the original brown book, "Underworld and Wilderness Adventures" and even more in the AD&D (1e) DMG. We know that the original group at TSR had a thing for the West. Ever played "Boot Hill" or heard of Murlynd? The setting worked fairly well for grafting a home brewed world onto it.

Never played, but knew of Boot Hill, and yes, heard of Murlynd.
But still, never really got a American Frontier vibe off of D&D, however. Building (or occupying) a castle (or tower, monastery, etc) never really gave me a American West vibe, sorry. I just took it as written; getting a (lowish) title and a parcel of land in return for feudal service.
Usually within the existing boundary of an established kingdom, not an expanding frontier.

Has anyone seeen or purchased this, https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Arcana-Special-Ephemera/dp/0399582754/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0399582754&pd_rd_r=c400780e-da6f-11e8-9665-8df9d4ca2866&pd_rd_w=8JIY1&pd_rd_wg=CLrMB&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=6725dbd6-9917-451d-beba-16af7874e407&pf_rd_r=E6VNA9N2WGS20081EV4Y&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=E6VNA9N2WGS20081EV4Y It has the original tournament version of Tomb of Horrors in it, the one from 1975. I admit, I am fairly curious about the module. Not sure I am $75 curious though.

You can get it for $5 from Drivethru RPG, or slightly more as a reprint of the S1-4 module collection under 'Dungeons of Dread' (For $10). (includes White Plume Mountain, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks and Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth). The latter is the one usually forgotten, but Tomb of Horrors is by far the worst, featuring Gygax's obsession with being a killer DM at its most extreme- if a group got through the first hallway into the dungeon proper without losing anyone, they were most likely cheating.

Expedition shows off the other obsession with early D&D: integrating sci-fi and lasers into the game (badly). The original Blackmoor setting has a lot of that as well, but was more Dave Arneson's baby, so got buried.

Can't speak for the Special Edition with the Tomb of Horrors module, but the book itself is absolutely fantastic if you're interested in that.

Packed full of great art pieces and interesting photos, very well-produced and written. If you've been with the game from the start it'll be more of a nostalgia trip than anything new or revalatory, but it's a fascinating book all the same. Definitely recommended if you're into the history and culture around the game, or just want a book full of pretty pictures.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm an Irishman living in Germany who grew up just over the water from Wales, so I speak Irish, English, German and I can recognise common Welsh words.

I think a lot of fantasy authors tend to raid Germanic and Celtic languages for names, which I don't mind if they are consistent with the language family. Like Circle Orboros in Hordes use a lot of Gaelic Irish words for things like "Tuath" for clans or kingdoms of Tharn for example, and that is fine by me. GW uses a lot of German words for it's stuff, since the Imperium is the Holy Roman Empire IN SPAAAACE, and that is also fine. I just find Forgotten Realms will sometimes put a german word and a celtic word together, which to me just sounds totally wrong and is kinda jarring. Either that or the words are totally made up and really hard to remember or pronounce.

What's your opinion on the Empire in old WHF, and their....Germanesque place names?

Voss wrote:

It wasn't nearly as bad as Dark Sun, where they introduced a new setting and then effectively destroyed the world state they had just introduced with novel and module developments in less than two years,

4e mostly went over my head (I'd burned out hard on 3e late in the edition, and took a very long break from all things D&D), but I liked its treatment of Dark Sun--sweeping away most of the wacky metaplot, and setting it just after Kalak had been killed and everyone was trying to figure out what that meant.

The Tomb of Horrors module in the Arcana collection is the original 1975 module, written for the Origins Convention. It pre-dates AD&D by several years. The one available at Drive Thru is the updated and revised for AD&D version from 1978 I already have that one, since I did in fact purchase it... in 1978. The 1975 version was never available. I'm curious to see what a pre AD&D module from TSR might look like and see how the two versions differ.

Anyway, about the American West... interesting essay here, https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2016/09/monocultural-dying-earth-vs-anti.html you'll have to click through the content warning (nothing NSW in this post) and scroll down to the "D&D is anti-medieval" essay.

Later versions of the game may have done things differently. I never played anything after AD&D 1e, apart from a bit of dabbling.

Thanks, Paradigm. I may add it to the wish-list then. Maybe the price will drop a bit. I started in 1978, so not quite since the beginning, but a few months before the AD&D PHB released.

Elemental: Heh, I don't mind it. My German wife rolls her eyes at the more cringey puns or obvious names, but I think it is all in good fun. I miss the Old World precisely because it had such a nice germanic flavour to it.

Just got my hands on the physical book for Dungeons of the Mad Mage
Pros: The layout of the room descriptions is short and to the point, with the first part of the layout being bulletpoints of the most important features of the room. This is very good for readability. Each level also has a short summary of what is going on, which is useful for improving as you play through. The areas included are detailed and include a pretty good mix of traps, roleplaying encounters, puzzles and combat encounters. I am especially pleased to see many interesting rooms as well as some humorous additions. The overall feel is quite light hearted in places, and there are even some quite risque elements that I will achem skip over for my school club game. There are 23 levels detailed and the book is pretty much all level descriptions with little else present. Non MM monsters needed are included in an appendix at the back and there is a brief section on the history and Halaster Blackcloak's motivations, but that is all. It is presented pretty much as "Well, here is Undermountain, go have fun!" which is my preferred style for this sort of thing.
Cons: The dungeon seems very linear, from what I can see on a first look there does not seem to be much in the way of branching paths or ways to jump multiple levels at once. This is a shame. It would be easy to fix, but it really should be included in the design from the start. There is also no overview map to show how the levels connect, which I tend to enjoy having. Each level is actually fairly compact, and contains usually 4-5 "expand this into dungeon of your own" exits. This is probably the only way to keep this book manageable and inside the budget, but it would be nice to have some of those really gigantic maps of Undermountain that came with the original set in all their glory, even if only part of it was detailed in the book and the rest left for expansion. I suppose people will expand it on DMs Guild and so on. Also, I was disappointed to see that there is no poster map with this book, I would have really enjoyed having a big postermap of Undermountain's first and second levels at least. Ah well.
Definitely feel this is worth picking up for anyone who likes megadungeon style play, and I will definitely be using it, slightly reskinned, to stand in for large sections of Ghul's labyrinth in Ptolus and sealing the entrances to other areas with the "Bluesteel doors" which are a feature of that setting. That will mean opening one will have to be an investment in time and effort and a conscious decision on the part of the players which will give me time to put something together. I might make brief notes for each one about what is beyond so that I am ready if the players decide to go for it.

Thanks for the Overview Da Boss, and I'm glad to hear the book will be useful to you. I agree that it would be nice if they had included a big poster map like they did for "Dragon Heist"

Yeah, definitely agree. It seems like the perfect product for it.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/sage-advice/errata-november-2018


errata time

Useful to know. I didn't see anything TOO significant there.

I found a "half red dragon ogre" that seemed to be using a GW dragon ogre shaggoth as the base but giving it fire abilities, so I re-wrote it to be more like the classic. Thought I would share it here in case anyone else has a shaggoth sitting around they want to use (I am planning on having my group encounter it as the cross through a mountain pass)



I would be interested if anyone else has found any decent conversions for Warhammer monsters!

There is a separate pack coming next week I believe that includes cards, larger maps, etcc.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a big one is in the DMG's errata. Two effects with the same name don't stack. Big difference for a party with multiple paladins for instance.

It's been a while since anyone has posted on here, and with the new year upon us I was thinking about how a lot of people do retrospectives of the past year on their blogs (I'll probably do one on mine too).
Do we want to share what happened in D&D for us in 2018? I'm thinking it can be over views of games we've played last year, talking about what books, supplements, minis, terrain, etc we've added to our collections. It can be group photos of your entire collection as of Decemebr 31, 2018. What do all you think?

Being my idea, I'll be the first to try (photos will have to wait till later. I have a little bit of an advantage as I only just got back into D&D beginning of 2018. I ordered the 5E starter set on January 1st 2018. I have the big three core books, I bought 2 of them and a very kind member here on Dakka bought me the Dungeon Master's guide as a gift when he found out I didn't have one. They haven't arrived yet, but I also recently bought myself "Xanathar's guide to Everything", "Volo's Guide to Monsters", and "MordenKainen's Tome of Foes" while they were on sale. I also picked up "Water Deep Dragon heist" in between.
Thanks to Paradigm's heads up, I was able to get one of the D&D 5E humble bundles with 39 items in it (including the "A series" of adventures with "Assault on Blacktooth Ridge").
I watched a lot of Matthew Colville, and downloaded old versions of "The Village of Hommlet", "The Red Hand of Doom", and "Against the Cult of the Reptile God".
I also downloaded "Keep on the Boarderlands", I think that was because of Da Boss.
Total: I have about 50 campaigns, adventures, one shots, suppliments, free partial adventures, etc. I've even gotten to play one of them
A lot of them have been fun to read, and I'm happy to say it looks like I'll be playing D&D again soon (I haven't gotten to play since May).

I'll follow with a post on how I've built my mini and terrain collection, because I am a crafting DM

Well, for me this year I got a second edition of my Unisystem DnD functional and began a play test that is going strong. So far the character creation is spot on and the game play is smooth and enjoyable. Certain abilities need point tweaks or function changes but on the whole it's working well. The document still needs some work before it can be shared but it's on my to do.

I recently joined a DnD group - we're all pretty new to it, I know a bit thanks to Critical role, and Matt Colville's DM'ing videos, so I've been trying to help our DM when I can by making life easier for him - its been great fun so far!

Good idea, Syro.
This year started strong, for me. We finished the Barrowmaze section of our campaign with an epic battle against my scratch built beholder, and it was friggin' awesome.

Then, as time wound on, I started to get a bit burned out, so I took a break and actually got to play for a bit as my players took turns DMing. It was quite nice for me because I am pretty much a perma-DM and I have been for 17 years!

The summer came and of course meant that we needed to break up for the summer, and when I came back I was raring to go. We lost a player and my players decided that what they had planned before the summer was no longer interesting and veered off in a different direction.

Normally, this would not be a big deal for me. For most of my tenure as a DM I have not been using miniatures, it is a relatively new development. So I never had to invest too much work into prepping stuff. But I felt pretty burned by this sudden change as I had painted a pile of stuff and spent a lot of time writing up the location "properly" rather than my usual brief notes. Anyhow, it is all good and we are enjoying seeing other areas of my setting. The lesson is, don't overprep and be willing to accept not having minis ready. Theatre of the mind worked before, and can still work now.

I also run a club for the students, and I really enjoy it, but at times last school year I got a bit overwhelmed in my job and found it difficult to prioritise. So this year I got it officially recognised on my timetable, and that has helped me to keep it running at a pretty high quality. The students are pretty hilarious and they are really enjoying their game as a bunch of mad murderhobos. I am going to pass the torch over to them for GMing though, because I think it is good for them to learn how to do it without me. I am a bit cagey about letting them use my minis, but they have been fairly trustworthy so far.

Overall, Dungeons and Dragons has become my main hobby. I don't play any wargames any more, due to not having opponents, which is why I decided to start working on miniatures to give me some outlet for this aspect of my hobby. It has been a total blast and some of my most productive time in the hobby. I think it has also improved my standards and kept my interest due to the nature of always painting small groups and big centrepiece monsters rather than grinding through armies.

My adult campaign is moving toward a huge war soon enough, so I may eat those words. But it is exciting to play this style of game, which has always been something I have wanted to explore.

As someone who homebrews my settings/adventures and doesn't use minis, I've not exactly amassed anything to show off at the end of the year (though that battle mat book I linked to a page or so back has been immeasurably useful!) Nonetheless, this has been a year of ever more D&D for me. Starting with playing/running my first 5e one-shot in January, followed by a campaign kicking off after that which was meant to be a short 3-5 week one but evolved into one that's still continuing, albeit sporadically.

That first campaign took a hit over the summer with 2 of the 4 players leaving over differences in our approach to the game (minmax power gamers in what I want to be a highly narrative experience), but following that the remaining players and a couple of new one started a new campaign in the same setting (eventually, I plan for the two games to 'Infinity War' together at a certain point). At this point, it's going from strength to strength, everyone is on the same page as to the style of game and we're getting sessions in weekly.

That group also has a couple of 'descendants' already, one by one of the original players and another run by one of his players (who only started play in the summer and already puts us both to shame! ). I'm lucky enough to have 'guest' roles in both when I'm back from uni, so I do get to see the other side of the DM screen sometimes, most recently as a 'Weapon X' type sorcerer turned mob hitman, which was good fun.

My favourite moment of the year as a player has to be said sorcerer rather aggressively talking down a pissed off red dragon about to burn down a city... I dread to think what would have happened if I'd rolled anything less than a nat 20 there, but it worked out in the end, netting us a rather angry dragon on our side when we took of a cult of the Chained Oblivion and (more immediately) stopping him from slaughtering us in the first place...

As a DM, it was probably (somewhat paradoxically) our first shared experience of a player character death. Even as I rolled the dice I felt awful for doing it (it really was a 'no other choice situation, though, and a fitting if premature end for that character), but at the same time I think for all of us, the emotion of that moment proved that we'd nailed exactly what we were going for; a campaign where these characters and their stories truly meant something to us, fully transcending their nature as numbers on a stat sheet and becoming something that could make everyone around a table tear up slightly... By sheer coincidence it also came after a similarly emotional moment on Critical Role (if you've followed campaign 2 you'll know the one...), which lent it a certain something. Not to say that CR represents the only 'right' way to do things, but it's very much the kind of game our group shoots for, so it was somewhat affirming to know that our own living room could facilitate the same drama and power as that.

D&D really has defined my year, to be honest. It's got me through some stressful times, it's given me a creative outlet that I haven't had in years and it's given me many great times with many great people. Honestly, I'm not sure quite what I did with my time before I was running 2 campaigns and playing in 2 more, but I can safely say It wouldn't have been nearly as fulfilling. Here's to another year of dice, dungeons and drama!

Wow, thanks for the great responses everyone.

@Lance845: That's exciting about getting your own system functioning, keep us posted.

@Dark Apostle 666: That's great that you joined a D&D group, I'm glad you're enjoying it too. That was good of you to help out your DM.

@Da Boss: I already commented on your retrospective on your blog, but this one is different enough that I'll comment again. D&D has become my main focus for the same reason as you, I'm having too much trouble getting together with people to play wargames. I'm glad you've started using miniatures, because I'm gotten to enjoy your blog because of it.

@Paradigm: Homebrewing without minis might mean what you've amassed is something in your bank account . That is really amazing how many games you are running and taking part in. it sounds like so much fun, I hope you are having a blast. I bet there are a lot of people who would trade there mini collections to get to game that much instead.